autosafari:If you are looking to increase mileage, go with the Michelin tires.They have less rolling resistance compared to other brand tires.Michelin's reputation took a hit due to the softer compound tires getting hit on the sidewall and developing cuts and bulges.So far I have not heard of this with the current XM2 tires.
Which New Tyres For Tata Manza ?
- Thread Starter Tornado
- Start date
jarpickle, some reduction in FE with the benefits mentioned by Tornado is OK.
My question was specific to the relative merits of ER300 and ER60
My question was specific to the relative merits of ER300 and ER60
I have no clue about the ER300.I have the ER60 and they are quite good.The grip levels are good in wet and dry both.
I use nitrogen with the tires and they feel heavy since there is no power steering.The max cruise I have done with these tires is 100kmph and they handled very well.No problems yet with bad roads.
I use nitrogen with the tires and they feel heavy since there is no power steering.The max cruise I have done with these tires is 100kmph and they handled very well.No problems yet with bad roads.
Thread Starter
#259
you had asked to compare ER60 VS ER300.
I don't have experience with ER300. But I have experience with xm2 which are fitted on our WagonR vxi BS 3.I brought XM2 for comparison here because they are similar to ER300. Both ER300(Manza size) & XM2 (wagonR vxi size) are asymmetrical.
P. S.- Not all xm2 sizes are asymmetrical.
Asymmetrical tires doesn't and can't decrease comfort unless down sized. Also, asymmetrical tires doesn't and can't decrease handling pleasure unless down sized
XM2 are not available in Manza OEM size. Hence instead of xm2, ER300 (available in Manza OEM size) can be used with same benefits.
Asymmetrical tires of same size when compared with same size symmetric tires, comfort levels is better with asymmetrical tires are more comfortable, but handling characteristics improve more, more than comfort characteristics.
To conclude, ER300 which are asymmetrical and available in Manza OEM size (185 /60R15) are more comfortable and better on handling front too than B 250 /Acelere which are symmetrical and available in Manza OEM size(185 /60R15)
Once you decide to go for ER 300, and if you feel that for you need more comfort than what ER300 is offering, then you have no option in manza OEM size,hence you will have to upsize. Most suitable upsize is 195 /60R15. In this upsize you have first good option, that is ER 60. ER 60 are SYMMETRICAL, the width is 195 mm(10 mm wider than ER300, B 250, Acelere), so comfort level is better than them. But being symmetrical ER60 won't be better than ER300 (asymmetric) on handling front.
That is why I said ER300 (Asymmetrical) are driver's tires.
IMO,
B 250, Acelere(185 /60R15)symmetrical = +1comfort & +1 handling
ER300 (185/60R15) asymmetrical = +2 comfort & +3 handling.
ER 60 (195/60R15) =+2 comfort & +2 handling, if these ER 60 were available in asymmetrical option too then score would have been +3 comfort & +3 handling.
Yes, I agree.
@jp, IMHO, it seems Autosafari is not averse to sacrifice someFE for other bene fits.
Manza ichelin xm2 are designed to make the tires sidewall cut resistant. But they are available only in 185 /65R15. Given the Autosafari 'S speeds, and abilities to cover thousands of km within a week, I won't advise him to go for this size as high speed cornering would be a pain for him.
I don't have experience with ER300. But I have experience with xm2 which are fitted on our WagonR vxi BS 3.I brought XM2 for comparison here because they are similar to ER300. Both ER300(Manza size) & XM2 (wagonR vxi size) are asymmetrical.
P. S.- Not all xm2 sizes are asymmetrical.
Asymmetrical tires doesn't and can't decrease comfort unless down sized. Also, asymmetrical tires doesn't and can't decrease handling pleasure unless down sized
XM2 are not available in Manza OEM size. Hence instead of xm2, ER300 (available in Manza OEM size) can be used with same benefits.
Asymmetrical tires of same size when compared with same size symmetric tires, comfort levels is better with asymmetrical tires are more comfortable, but handling characteristics improve more, more than comfort characteristics.
To conclude, ER300 which are asymmetrical and available in Manza OEM size (185 /60R15) are more comfortable and better on handling front too than B 250 /Acelere which are symmetrical and available in Manza OEM size(185 /60R15)
Once you decide to go for ER 300, and if you feel that for you need more comfort than what ER300 is offering, then you have no option in manza OEM size,hence you will have to upsize. Most suitable upsize is 195 /60R15. In this upsize you have first good option, that is ER 60. ER 60 are SYMMETRICAL, the width is 195 mm(10 mm wider than ER300, B 250, Acelere), so comfort level is better than them. But being symmetrical ER60 won't be better than ER300 (asymmetric) on handling front.
That is why I said ER300 (Asymmetrical) are driver's tires.
IMO,
B 250, Acelere(185 /60R15)symmetrical = +1comfort & +1 handling
ER300 (185/60R15) asymmetrical = +2 comfort & +3 handling.
ER 60 (195/60R15) =+2 comfort & +2 handling, if these ER 60 were available in asymmetrical option too then score would have been +3 comfort & +3 handling.
Yes, I agree.
@jp, IMHO, it seems Autosafari is not averse to sacrifice someFE for other bene fits.
Manza ichelin xm2 are designed to make the tires sidewall cut resistant. But they are available only in 185 /65R15. Given the Autosafari 'S speeds, and abilities to cover thousands of km within a week, I won't advise him to go for this size as high speed cornering would be a pain for him.
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Tall sidewalls are bad for high speed cornering for sure.
Tire selection really boils down to usage scenarios and what exactly you expect to get out of the tires.
There are no perfect tires, you have to go with the best compromise.
Asymmetrical tires are limited in their longevity as they cannot be rotated like symmetric tires.Some asymmetrics do very well in rains but not so good in the dry and vice versa.
If autosafari compares the 195/60R15 ER60 and the 185/65R15 XM2 the difference in sidewall would be just 3.25mm.
Tire selection really boils down to usage scenarios and what exactly you expect to get out of the tires.
There are no perfect tires, you have to go with the best compromise.
Asymmetrical tires are limited in their longevity as they cannot be rotated like symmetric tires.Some asymmetrics do very well in rains but not so good in the dry and vice versa.
If autosafari compares the 195/60R15 ER60 and the 185/65R15 XM2 the difference in sidewall would be just 3.25mm.
Thread Starter
#261
I agree. also sport car type handling contributes there. But overall life won'tget redu ced by more than 3 to 4kkm. But losses thus incurred can be compensated in FE. FE improves with asymmetrical tiresas compared to same size symmetrical s
Please enlighten further.
As per my experience dry condition handling also improves.
Please enlighten further.
As per my experience dry condition handling also improves.
Tornado
I am nearing 60000kms & due for service next week & just after that plan to take a trip to mountains on 14th Dec so need to change the tyre before that trip.
1. My driving is 90% on 4 lane expressway excellent roads
2. High speed driving 100-140kmph, with occasional cornering
3. sudden braking is rare but need at times so good braking is must (will be replacing brake shoe too)
4. Mileage as of now with old tyre I am getting is 17-18 with AC on & 20-21 without AC
5. have to drive on wet roads in rainy & winter season
I am thinking between ER-300 stock size or ER-60 which you are now using, what is your feedback after 4-5 months of usage?
As you have up sized, what happens with old 5th tyre as spare since that size mismatch? If a puncture happens & you have to replace 1 tyre which is of different width/height does it create a problem while driving? In my case I have 1 spare which is brand new & has never been used untill last week when a puncture happened.
I am nearing 60000kms & due for service next week & just after that plan to take a trip to mountains on 14th Dec so need to change the tyre before that trip.
1. My driving is 90% on 4 lane expressway excellent roads
2. High speed driving 100-140kmph, with occasional cornering
3. sudden braking is rare but need at times so good braking is must (will be replacing brake shoe too)
4. Mileage as of now with old tyre I am getting is 17-18 with AC on & 20-21 without AC
5. have to drive on wet roads in rainy & winter season
I am thinking between ER-300 stock size or ER-60 which you are now using, what is your feedback after 4-5 months of usage?
As you have up sized, what happens with old 5th tyre as spare since that size mismatch? If a puncture happens & you have to replace 1 tyre which is of different width/height does it create a problem while driving? In my case I have 1 spare which is brand new & has never been used untill last week when a puncture happened.
Thread Starter
#264
@gypsy, Small size spare wheel doesn't make any difference as it is meant for short drives , in fact hyundai and MSIL provide small size spare wheel by default as a part of cost cutting.
In my case, till now there is no puncture . but even in case of puncture I don't use spare tyre. I use my digital tyre inflator to inflate the tyre so that I can reach tyre repair guy safely.
Now, car is 52 kkm run. Experience till now is amazing. Especially body roll, stability on bad, slippery roads. Initially they were noisy but now noise is reduced a lot.
Braking was bound to improve and is improved a lot.
IMO, upsize is required for manza only if you are concerned about body roll, extra comfort , and extra stability at high speed. Else ER 300 would do the job.
Now, if you want to go for up size think of Michelin 3ST or PLC, or Bridgestone AR 10 (If production is restarted) because your running is 90 %on E way. If E way is RCC then go for 3 ST Or PLC. You will love them. Also need to know if these are available in stock size.
My first choice was PLC, but I went for ER 60 because most of my roads are pot holed and I was afraid of side wall cut as PLC are softer than ER 60.
![[cheers]](https://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/images/smilies/Cheers.gif "Cheers [cheers]")
BTW, salute to your driving skills for reading 60 kkm on stock tyres.
In my case, till now there is no puncture . but even in case of puncture I don't use spare tyre. I use my digital tyre inflator to inflate the tyre so that I can reach tyre repair guy safely.
Now, car is 52 kkm run. Experience till now is amazing. Especially body roll, stability on bad, slippery roads. Initially they were noisy but now noise is reduced a lot.
Braking was bound to improve and is improved a lot.
IMO, upsize is required for manza only if you are concerned about body roll, extra comfort , and extra stability at high speed. Else ER 300 would do the job.
Now, if you want to go for up size think of Michelin 3ST or PLC, or Bridgestone AR 10 (If production is restarted) because your running is 90 %on E way. If E way is RCC then go for 3 ST Or PLC. You will love them. Also need to know if these are available in stock size.
My first choice was PLC, but I went for ER 60 because most of my roads are pot holed and I was afraid of side wall cut as PLC are softer than ER 60.
BTW, salute to your driving skills for reading 60 kkm on stock tyres.
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I am concerned about body roll as I drive high speed but at the same time wondering A width of 195mm, as compared to 185mm will result in higher load on the power steering on mountain roads. The PS being hydraulic & engine powered, this would mean a slight loss of power on steep twisty inclines. Is my thinking correct, have you driven on hills & ghats after Tyre change?
BTW, salute to your driving skills for reading 60 kkm on stock tyres.
![[:D]](https://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/images/smilies/Big%20Smile.gif "Big Smile [:D]")
more than my driving skills I think its more to do with excellent roads I drive on, regular pressure checking, every 10000kms tyre rotation & wheel balancing, My driving skill is only that I don't accelarate & brake unless absolutely required, driving in correct gear. My original brake shoes are still going strong but will be getting changed just for safety purpose.
BTW, salute to your driving skills for reading 60 kkm on stock tyres.
more than my driving skills I think its more to do with excellent roads I drive on, regular pressure checking, every 10000kms tyre rotation & wheel balancing, My driving skill is only that I don't accelarate & brake unless absolutely required, driving in correct gear. My original brake shoes are still going strong but will be getting changed just for safety purpose.So if I upsize its only 10mm, will that cause an issue with high speed driving? In my case 95% travel is high speed, only 2000kms of hill/mountain driving per year.
TURANZA ER300 is available in both stock size & upsize too & its tread pattern matches closely to stock 250 Tyre.
Buy Bridgestone TURANZA ER300 (Tubeless) Tyres Online | Tyres on EMI @ ChangeMyTyre.com
TURANZA ER300 is available in both stock size & upsize too & its tread pattern matches closely to stock 250 Tyre.
Buy Bridgestone TURANZA ER300 (Tubeless) Tyres Online | Tyres on EMI @ ChangeMyTyre.com
Any amount of increase in the sidewall height and not width will cause added flex while cornering in the ghats at higher speeds.
For high speed driving you can increase the width and lower the sidewall as much as possible.
The width will give you more grip and the lower sidewall will reduce flex.
But be careful as the lower sidewall will make the ride quality harsh.
For high speed driving you can increase the width and lower the sidewall as much as possible.
The width will give you more grip and the lower sidewall will reduce flex.
But be careful as the lower sidewall will make the ride quality harsh.
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Ok so then it wont affect much in my case as I dont drive high speed on hills mostly 30-40kmph 2 or 3rd gear only. Can the higher side wall flex be reduced by increasing air pressure from 32psi (Tata recommended for stock size) to 34-36 psi?
Thread Starter
#270
Er300, upsize you mentioned is 195 /65 /15 while the ER 60 (mine one) is 195 /60 /15.
195 /65 would lead to more flex of sidewall and bad steering experience. 195 /60 /15 would be better on the steering experience.
Keeping 34 to 36 psi pressure would make the ride bouncy especially when you drive travel alone most of the time.
Then 195 mm upsize is must.
Not at all. Read my experience on day one of my new tyres, however it does feel heavy at very slow speed while taking full turns On highways at normal speeds there is no problem at all and at highspeeds it is a boon.
it makes difference of only 50 odd RPM AFA tacho reading is concerned . But this obligatory rise in RPM makes driving experience little better. This can lead to slight drop in FE but I feel, for me the drop can be neglected in view of pleasure it gives.
Daily, I am driving on 5 km stretch of ghat with, five hairpin turns with moderate slopes. One of them is really steep and challenging , but I don't have any problems negotiating it.
195 /65 would lead to more flex of sidewall and bad steering experience. 195 /60 /15 would be better on the steering experience.
Keeping 34 to 36 psi pressure would make the ride bouncy especially when you drive travel alone most of the time.
Then 195 mm upsize is must.
Not at all. Read my experience on day one of my new tyres, however it does feel heavy at very slow speed while taking full turns On highways at normal speeds there is no problem at all and at highspeeds it is a boon.
it makes difference of only 50 odd RPM AFA tacho reading is concerned . But this obligatory rise in RPM makes driving experience little better. This can lead to slight drop in FE but I feel, for me the drop can be neglected in view of pleasure it gives.
Daily, I am driving on 5 km stretch of ghat with, five hairpin turns with moderate slopes. One of them is really steep and challenging , but I don't have any problems negotiating it.
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