The Definitive Petrol v/s Diesel Calculator
- Thread Starter shailinder
- Start date
welcome buddy on TAI.
Unfortunately, attached file by you can not open on my galaxy grand.
Unfortunately, attached file by you can not open on my galaxy grand.
use this app Tornado
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mobisystems.office&hl=en
better than the stock one which you got with your phone.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mobisystems.office&hl=en
better than the stock one which you got with your phone.
I didn't realize there are quite a few calculators readily available for this purpose. Hence created something on my own when I was finalizing my car 4 - 5 months back. Though I am a diesel head, some petrol heads confused me that for my usage petrol car would be a cheaper proposition.
Developed this tool, which takes in to account the following aspects:
* Fuel prices, assumed inflation % for fuel
* Loan expenses
* Loss due to depreciation
* Insurance premium
* Maintenance cost etc
I discovered that for my usage levels and 5 years usage Diesel variant would save me more than 1.3L (or cheaper by Rs. 1.13 per km). Even if I decide to sell the car after 4 years, I would still save 65K (cheaper by Rs. 0.69 per km).
Developed this tool, which takes in to account the following aspects:
* Fuel prices, assumed inflation % for fuel
* Loan expenses
* Loss due to depreciation
* Insurance premium
* Maintenance cost etc
I discovered that for my usage levels and 5 years usage Diesel variant would save me more than 1.3L (or cheaper by Rs. 1.13 per km). Even if I decide to sell the car after 4 years, I would still save 65K (cheaper by Rs. 0.69 per km).
Petrol vs diesel in the entry level market
Most cars bought in india are either hatchbacks or entry level sedans.
I have done some pondering about the choice of petrol or diesel in this entry level segment.
Many believe that a diesel is cheaper to run even if they don't drive their cars that much.
Diesel engines have a good torque o/p on comparison with petrol engines. But they constantly attain high pressure that adds to the strain. Over the years the complex parts give way and the expense for replacements is very high.
Petrols have more bhp,provides a linear power delivery and has fewer complex components and less parts have to be replaced. Many argue the converse is true but let's admit it 'a petrol motor is more durable than a diesel mill if same manufacturing standards are followed'.
Diesels are more suitable in heavier vehicles and in a hatch it is used only because of the disparity in diesel-petrol prices.
Small capacity petrol motors are more durable, provide better NVH figures and are more reliable. Small displacement diesels score pretty low in these figures.
We even have a 3 cylinder beat engine and the logic of buying a beat diesel would have been proven wrong if govt makes the petrol and diesel prices even.
I have been using the tata safari for long, first a 3.0l now a 2.2 dicor both have been good despite the latter being pre owned. Diesel on a 10 lakh,2 ton suv makes sense but a low displacement diesel on a hatch is prone to reliability issues compared to petrol rivals.
I think first time users should avoid cars like the diesel Beat and Indicas which have reliability issues written all over them and prefer better engineered petrol cars unless their usage is very high even then it will be good to go for a better diesel engine.
I am not questioning the 1.2 diesel mills of Fiat or the Renault engine.
The question is should a first time car buyer buy these mini diesels or better petrol cars for the same time.
I think if a diesel car is sold at less than say 5.5 lakhs is a lemon because the diesel car has to be over engineered just to keep it on par with petrol cars.
So the bottom line is a cheap,small displacement,crude diese mill means extreme unreliability in the long run.
Most cars bought in india are either hatchbacks or entry level sedans.
I have done some pondering about the choice of petrol or diesel in this entry level segment.
Many believe that a diesel is cheaper to run even if they don't drive their cars that much.
Diesel engines have a good torque o/p on comparison with petrol engines. But they constantly attain high pressure that adds to the strain. Over the years the complex parts give way and the expense for replacements is very high.
Petrols have more bhp,provides a linear power delivery and has fewer complex components and less parts have to be replaced. Many argue the converse is true but let's admit it 'a petrol motor is more durable than a diesel mill if same manufacturing standards are followed'.
Diesels are more suitable in heavier vehicles and in a hatch it is used only because of the disparity in diesel-petrol prices.
Small capacity petrol motors are more durable, provide better NVH figures and are more reliable. Small displacement diesels score pretty low in these figures.
We even have a 3 cylinder beat engine and the logic of buying a beat diesel would have been proven wrong if govt makes the petrol and diesel prices even.
I have been using the tata safari for long, first a 3.0l now a 2.2 dicor both have been good despite the latter being pre owned. Diesel on a 10 lakh,2 ton suv makes sense but a low displacement diesel on a hatch is prone to reliability issues compared to petrol rivals.
I think first time users should avoid cars like the diesel Beat and Indicas which have reliability issues written all over them and prefer better engineered petrol cars unless their usage is very high even then it will be good to go for a better diesel engine.
I am not questioning the 1.2 diesel mills of Fiat or the Renault engine.
The question is should a first time car buyer buy these mini diesels or better petrol cars for the same time.
I think if a diesel car is sold at less than say 5.5 lakhs is a lemon because the diesel car has to be over engineered just to keep it on par with petrol cars.
So the bottom line is a cheap,small displacement,crude diese mill means extreme unreliability in the long run.
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Re: Petrol vs diesel in the entry level market
True that, I was one of them as being a first time buyer, calculating everything despite of the "others" suggesting me to opt for a diesel helped me get into more depth and ultimately I opted for a petrol engine and am quite happy about it.
True that, I was one of them as being a first time buyer, calculating everything despite of the "others" suggesting me to opt for a diesel helped me get into more depth and ultimately I opted for a petrol engine and am quite happy about it.
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Re: Petrol vs diesel in the entry level market
Yes. Agreed. http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/f...8-february-2014-sales-figures-cars-india.html
Agreed. That's a wrong notion. http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/f...z-petrol-vs-diesel-comparison.html#post265649
Well, diesel engines are compression ignition engines, so yes, they operate at a higher compression ratio than what comparable petrol engines do BUT remember that they also rev lower than comparable petrol engines. As per my understanding, a high compression ratio is a much safer threshold than a higher rev range in order to determine longevity of an internal combustion engine. Do you have any data to prove "over the years the complex parts give way and the expense for replacements is very high" ?
Could you eludicate what do you mean by "same manufacturing standards?" All manufacturers make petrol/diesel engines using the same methods in the same plant by the same personnel. As far as durability of diesel motors is concerned, all of us have seen 3 lakh km old DI Indica taxis chugging along merrily on our highways.
Diesels are suitable in heavier vehicles because they develop more torque (= more pulling power) than similar petrol engines. A diesel engine in a hatch or in any other vehicle would always be more fuel efficient than an equivalent petrol engine.
1. Durable = I ask you again, do you have any data to prove this?
2. Better NVH = Agreed.
3. More reliable = Do you have any data?
Even if diesel and petrol prices are made even, a diesel mill would always be more fuel efficient than an equivalent petrol motor and that may be reason enough for some people to go for one. of course, all this cannot be generalized as there are several other considerations apart from pricing of diesel/petrol fuel.
Please, do you have any data on reliability to prove what you are saying? I'd say modern diesel mills are as reliable as their petrol counterparts, if not more.
I know people with diesel Beats and Indicas who have had ZERO problems with their engines; but I agree with your 'high usage diesel feasibility' comment.
Why? Are other diesel mills in any way inferior to the Multijet and K9K?
Correct. Open for discussion.
Well, as I mentioned earlier, diesel engines operate at a high compression ratio so the engine parts have to be mae stronger to bear all that heat and pressure. Diesel cars under Rs. 5.5 lakh in India would be base versions of Beat/Indica/Figo. These cars may have extremely happy as well as extremely unhappy owners - much like owners of any other cars; price and type of fuel notwithstanding.
Data, my dear, give me some data.
Yes. Agreed. http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/f...8-february-2014-sales-figures-cars-india.html
Agreed. That's a wrong notion. http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/f...z-petrol-vs-diesel-comparison.html#post265649
Well, diesel engines are compression ignition engines, so yes, they operate at a higher compression ratio than what comparable petrol engines do BUT remember that they also rev lower than comparable petrol engines. As per my understanding, a high compression ratio is a much safer threshold than a higher rev range in order to determine longevity of an internal combustion engine. Do you have any data to prove "over the years the complex parts give way and the expense for replacements is very high" ?
Could you eludicate what do you mean by "same manufacturing standards?" All manufacturers make petrol/diesel engines using the same methods in the same plant by the same personnel. As far as durability of diesel motors is concerned, all of us have seen 3 lakh km old DI Indica taxis chugging along merrily on our highways.
Diesels are suitable in heavier vehicles because they develop more torque (= more pulling power) than similar petrol engines. A diesel engine in a hatch or in any other vehicle would always be more fuel efficient than an equivalent petrol engine.
1. Durable = I ask you again, do you have any data to prove this?
2. Better NVH = Agreed.
3. More reliable = Do you have any data?
Even if diesel and petrol prices are made even, a diesel mill would always be more fuel efficient than an equivalent petrol motor and that may be reason enough for some people to go for one. of course, all this cannot be generalized as there are several other considerations apart from pricing of diesel/petrol fuel.
Please, do you have any data on reliability to prove what you are saying? I'd say modern diesel mills are as reliable as their petrol counterparts, if not more.
I know people with diesel Beats and Indicas who have had ZERO problems with their engines; but I agree with your 'high usage diesel feasibility' comment.
Why? Are other diesel mills in any way inferior to the Multijet and K9K?
Correct. Open for discussion.
Well, as I mentioned earlier, diesel engines operate at a high compression ratio so the engine parts have to be mae stronger to bear all that heat and pressure. Diesel cars under Rs. 5.5 lakh in India would be base versions of Beat/Indica/Figo. These cars may have extremely happy as well as extremely unhappy owners - much like owners of any other cars; price and type of fuel notwithstanding.
Data, my dear, give me some data.
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Re: Petrol vs diesel in the entry level market
I am shocked with this comment here. The engines in car are same just variant are different. SO according to you. Base variant of car with same diesel engine is unreliable as compared to top variant of car with same engine?![[roll]](https://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/images/smilies/Roll.gif "Roll Eyes [roll]")
Diesel engines are developed using highest standard and great technology. Smaller cars have smaller displacement engine may be less cylinders as well and bigger car have bigger engines. For example : MJD 1.3, 1.6 and 1.9 as well. This does not makes car with MJD 1.3 lemon or unreliable.
Do you know about any instances where diesel car below 5.5 as lemon. And what about instances where Rs. 1 crore diesel car being a lemon??![[sleep]](https://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/images/smilies/Sleep.gif "Sleep [sleep]")
I am shocked with this comment here. The engines in car are same just variant are different. SO according to you. Base variant of car with same diesel engine is unreliable as compared to top variant of car with same engine?
Diesel engines are developed using highest standard and great technology. Smaller cars have smaller displacement engine may be less cylinders as well and bigger car have bigger engines. For example : MJD 1.3, 1.6 and 1.9 as well. This does not makes car with MJD 1.3 lemon or unreliable.
Do you know about any instances where diesel car below 5.5 as lemon. And what about instances where Rs. 1 crore diesel car being a lemon??
This debate will go on and on. But a person should choose a car wise based upon his requirement.
We have people from this forum who has sold diesel car and re-opting for petrol though running more than 1000 km a month due to smoke/smell of diesel.
http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/f...hunting-good-petrol-hatch-sedan-new-used.html
We have people from this forum who has sold diesel car and re-opting for petrol though running more than 1000 km a month due to smoke/smell of diesel.
http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/f...hunting-good-petrol-hatch-sedan-new-used.html
As Anshuman mentioned this is a big debate. If you ask me I would prefer Diesel (do not know whether I will like it after buying and using it for some time and seeing bills) as of now. Imagine spending just 4.5k buks on a SUV for 2500 KMs approximately for fuel. In case of petrol I should have shell out more than double of that cost.
My day today expenses will be less. even if i go for a long drive at-least once in two months also i could have managed with less fuel expenses. I am looking only from that point.
I do not know now even petrol cars are giving high FE like diesel cars.
My day today expenses will be less. even if i go for a long drive at-least once in two months also i could have managed with less fuel expenses. I am looking only from that point.
I do not know now even petrol cars are giving high FE like diesel cars.
The debate was never about what is best, it is about what suits your need best. ![[;)]](https://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/images/smilies/Wink.gif "Wink [;)]")
I tried to imagine but I just couldn't.
Diesel today is approx Rs. 60/lt.
4500÷60 = 75 litres.
2500÷75 = 33 kmpl![[clap]](https://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/images/smilies/Clap.gif "Clap [clap]")
.
Which SUV gives 33kmpl![[surprise]](https://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/images/smilies/Surprise.gif "Surprise [surprise]")
!!??
Diesel today is approx Rs. 60/lt.
4500÷60 = 75 litres.
2500÷75 = 33 kmpl
.Which SUV gives 33kmpl
!!??
Roman is very judgmental and I guess he has no or limited experience of diesel propelled cars.
Please refer to post no 52 (http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/f...efinitive-petrol-v-s-diesel-calculator-4.html).
Will 15000 kms in 8 years or 6000 kms in 5 year harm the car's engine. These are figures for petrol cars. Diesel Indica's or any other taxi or diesel SUV's, most have clocked 1.5-3L kms, hence might vibrate a bit more but this not due to diesel but due to mounts.
If someone have <400 kms per month run, why to buy car at all. This running doesn't justify the insurance, depreciation, AMC and other time linked wear and tear.
Anything above 800-1000 per month should opt for diesel or CNG (lets say in case of Delhi).
People in other than aforementioned category can opt for petrol. These are strictly related to hatch or compact sedans. Owners of luxury or ultra luxury segment are not much bothered about the fuel cost.
Advise, do your own calculations and factor in TCO including ex-showroom cost, insurance, annual maintenance, fuel cost etc separately for diesel and petrol and take your call.
Please refer to post no 52 (http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/f...efinitive-petrol-v-s-diesel-calculator-4.html).
Will 15000 kms in 8 years or 6000 kms in 5 year harm the car's engine. These are figures for petrol cars. Diesel Indica's or any other taxi or diesel SUV's, most have clocked 1.5-3L kms, hence might vibrate a bit more but this not due to diesel but due to mounts.
If someone have <400 kms per month run, why to buy car at all. This running doesn't justify the insurance, depreciation, AMC and other time linked wear and tear.
Anything above 800-1000 per month should opt for diesel or CNG (lets say in case of Delhi).
People in other than aforementioned category can opt for petrol. These are strictly related to hatch or compact sedans. Owners of luxury or ultra luxury segment are not much bothered about the fuel cost.
Advise, do your own calculations and factor in TCO including ex-showroom cost, insurance, annual maintenance, fuel cost etc separately for diesel and petrol and take your call.
please please stop bringing tata indica to the picture where / when ever you discuss on diesel low price hatchback, because indica diesel are not just good but the best one, thats the reason they are the most prefered comercial (example call taxi or cab) vehicle in hatchback segment
the parts are cheaper but that doesnt meant its not relliable, in bangalore these indicabs used for IT company staffs pickup / drops ran almost 15,000 + kms per month. with not so much expence from owners pocket.
my known friend baught a second hand 5 years + old indicab for 70,000 used it as cab for 2 years and sold it off @ 55,000 , here is the calulation as per him
cab baught at 70,000
per month running 20k kms
monthly income 40,000 to 45,000
diesel cost 15,000 to 17,000
other expenses like engine oil maintance etc 3000 to 4000
per month profit 15,000 to 20,000
per year he got 1.80 L to 2.40 L
in a year he got 2 lakhs profit
in 2 years its no lesser than 4 lakhs.
you do the rest of the calculations and tell us where it costs the customer in any way
the parts are cheaper but that doesnt meant its not relliable, in bangalore these indicabs used for IT company staffs pickup / drops ran almost 15,000 + kms per month. with not so much expence from owners pocket.
my known friend baught a second hand 5 years + old indicab for 70,000 used it as cab for 2 years and sold it off @ 55,000 , here is the calulation as per him
cab baught at 70,000
per month running 20k kms
monthly income 40,000 to 45,000
diesel cost 15,000 to 17,000
other expenses like engine oil maintance etc 3000 to 4000
per month profit 15,000 to 20,000
per year he got 1.80 L to 2.40 L
in a year he got 2 lakhs profit
in 2 years its no lesser than 4 lakhs.
you do the rest of the calculations and tell us where it costs the customer in any way
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Adding fuel diesel to fire
:
http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/f...14-sales-figures-cars-india-2.html#post373120
:http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/f...14-sales-figures-cars-india-2.html#post373120