Tata Tigor (Kite-5) Compact Sedan Unveiled

[gaddambhargavareddy]

Re: Tata Kite Compact Sedan (Indigo eCS Replacement)

I beg to differ here as the all five cars you mentioned were never best in class handlers and the weight of the car result in body roll, low mileage and other issues.

Who said TATA Much more heavier then its competitors and have low mileage issues? tata cars little bit heavier then other cars the difference is just just 20 to 40kgs only and do you know TATA Indica is much lighter then maruti Ritz(weights more then 1100Kgs) but TATA indica weights just under 1060kgs only and we have to remember that TATA cars are most fuel efficient cars in their respective segments.

X1 platform was based on X0 and was highly re engineered by India team from the original pininfirana design.

Pininfarina design never involved in platform design in tata products TATA just outsourced exterior and interior design from IDEA for TATA Indica and some portion of vista. Pininfarina Designed TATA Pr1ma Premium mid Size sedan Concept

X0 and X1 platforms both are different platfroms we cant judge by oberserving exterior design of cars and both x0 and x1 platforms use different technology uses in body shopp and body press.

Sir you mentioned about parts sharing - it's always good to share parts however not the way Tata practices it. Use it in wisely manner. Use engines, control stalks, platform suspension, seats, stearing system, ac equipments to name a few but not make them quite identical as what they did with 5 products you mentioned and specially bolt and to an extent Zest.

people always simply judge on tata cars by looking similar design in their cars specially when it comes to indica/indigo/vista/manza/bolt/zest. but remember one thing all these three generation cars essencially based on one 1series brand that is indica technically we should consider these 3cars as

TATA Indica - first Generation

TATA Indica Vista - 2nd Generation

TATA Bolt - 3rd Generation

TATA Indigo - 1st Generation

TATA Indigo Manza - 2nd Generation

TATA IndigoCS -first Generation

TATA Zest - 2nd Generation.

i wonder that if brands like VW,AUDI, SKODA etc allows same accurate similar design in different segments people wont comment it but they same process came from Indian Giant means they cant accept

What about gear box? Due to gear box limitations they were not able to use the best out of engine capabilities. They scrapped CR4 90 bhp, the revetron engine was actually capable for more power but gear box is not. Common Tata why? From last 5 to 6 years...no development on gear box

in our country more then 60% car buyers just buying cars to travel from point a to point b they are not hurry or rush to bet drag race with their cars thats the main reason TATA wanted to save some development cost we can easily judge on gearbox or technology simply without knowing anything but we dont know how much money and time will takes to adop completely new parts for limited valume cars thats why tata always wanting increasing refinement level of their existing engines and gear boxes to trank market presence

how many of you know why tata adoped turbo changed petrol engine in ZEST and BOLT because its a type of cost saving method remember if TATA implements 16valves DOHC VVT Tech in XETA engine black means it will be more costly then Revotron 1.2T and thats the reason tata just added turbo unit to existing XETA Block and reduced NVH levels and increased Refinement levels

 

[eigenvalue]

Re: Tata Kite Compact Sedan (Indigo eCS Replacement)

how many of you know why tata adoped turbo changed petrol engine in ZEST and BOLT because its a type of cost saving method remember if TATA implements 16valves DOHC VVT Tech in XETA engine black means it will be more costly then Revotron 1.2T and thats the reason tata just added turbo unit to existing XETA Block and reduced NVH levels and increased Refinement levels

Agree with you. TATA's are best in engine design. The 1.2L Revotron itself is an epitome of it. If not for the TA65 gear box the torque figure would be in the where abouts of 160Nm and bumped up power figure (>=100PS). But to successfully develop and test the engines a new gear box is the need of the hour. with the all new aluminium block of revotron is ready with dohc(from the kite twins), direct injection, variable valve timing and turbocharging it would necessitate a new gear box either inhouse or outsourced (say tjet punto's gearbox). Timely update, low cost design solutions and efficient products are the need of the hour and TATA is on the right path may be on with a lower momentum but definitely on the right path. If rumours are to be believed there is a 3.0l 230bhp 600Nm engine is being tested on aria/hexa (twin turbo or on steroids, 4/6 cylinders no idea) and TATA shows the inhouse engine development capability of INDIAN engineering neverthless.

 

[kasscon]

Re: Tata Kite Compact Sedan (Indigo eCS Replacement)

I stand corrected about pininfarina it was idea.

However X1 was derived from X0 is what I know from a resource close to the platform builtup. Yes it is a different platform and produced on a different manufacturing/assembly line.

Again Tata tried to get platform from Cherry and if you talk about weight please compare swift and bolt and the mileage.

And am talking about present scenario not past. Yes Indica was the most fuel efficient and it enjoyed a great market share and sales.
What about now??

I have high hopes on Kite and what I know that they are using few bits of the X0 platform not the exact or the most of the platform.

Yes you are right about revotron turbo part however as per a hint they actually worked on a new engine earlier and it was not ready thus turbo on xeta block brought as a stop gap. May be am wrong on this info however this is what i got from a Birdie.

Cheers
Vaibhav Kassrija

 

[m_sherbet]

Re: Tata Kite Compact Sedan (Indigo eCS Replacement)

As per news in Business-Standard, Tata Motors is slated to start production of Kite model(s) from Sanand plant only in December. This is as per information they have managed to source from vendors. Seems like we won't be seeing either of the Kite twins during the festival season this year!! :(

 

[Godfather]

Re: Tata Kite Compact Sedan (Indigo eCS Replacement)

Again Tata tried to get platform from Cherry and if you talk about weight please compare swift and bolt and the mileage.

And am talking about present scenario not past. Yes Indica was the most fuel efficient and it enjoyed a great market share and sales.
What about now??

Definitely weight of the car plays a major role in determining the overall FE, but it has also to do with the fine tuning and calibration of your engine and providing ideal gear ratios for achieving superior FE. Maruti has been successful to derive max FE due to this reason only. The same 1.3 MJD is used even in Ciaz and Maruti is claiming a FE of 26.xx per liter. Tata Zest which carries the same weight of Ciaz is having a less FE of 22.xx per liter with the same engine. So you know better FE is achieved through various other parameters and not only the gross weight.

 

[eigenvalue]

Re: Tata Kite Compact Sedan (Indigo eCS Replacement)

Definitely weight of the car plays a major role in determining the overall FE, but it has also to do with the fine tuning and calibration of your engine and providing ideal gear ratios for achieving superior FE. Maruti has been successful to derive max FE due to this reason only. The same 1.3 MJD is used even in Ciaz and Maruti is claiming a FE of 26.xx per liter. Tata Zest which carries the same weight of Ciaz is having a less FE of 22.xx per liter with the same engine. So you know better FE is achieved through various other parameters and not only the gross weight.

spot on. There are multitude of reasons affecting the fuel efficiency right from engine tuning to final drivetrain. Even the tyre size have a sizeable impact on fuel efficiency, if every variable to be accounted for.

 

[ksdr]

Re: Tata Kite Compact Sedan (Indigo eCS Replacement)

Definitely weight of the car plays a major role in determining the overall FE, but it has also to do with the fine tuning and calibration of your engine and providing ideal gear ratios for achieving superior FE. Maruti has been successful to derive max FE due to this reason only. The same 1.3 MJD is used even in Ciaz and Maruti is claiming a FE of 26.xx per liter. Tata Zest which carries the same weight of Ciaz is having a less FE of 22.xx per liter with the same engine. So you know better FE is achieved through various other parameters and not only the gross weight.

Zest ARAI figures maybe 22.xx but that figure is achievable in real world with out effort. Contrary to that in Ciaz it will be hard to achieve the 26kmpl figure.

 

[Godfather]

Re: Tata Kite Compact Sedan (Indigo eCS Replacement)

Zest ARAI figures maybe 22.xx but that figure is achievable in real world with out effort. Contrary to that in Ciaz it will be hard to achieve the 26kmpl figure.

Agreeing to you but Maruti was successful in achieving these figures before ARAI

Yes, in real world driving conditions these figures will be hard to achieve but not impossible. You can easily sue the OEM for giving misleading information if these figures are not achievable at all. This is my understanding and i can be wrong.

 

[gaddambhargavareddy]

Re: Tata Kite Compact Sedan (Indigo eCS Replacement)

Agree with you. TATA's are best in engine design. The 1.2L Revotron itself is an epitome of it. If not for the TA65 gear box the torque figure would be in the where abouts of 160Nm and bumped up power figure (>=100PS). But to successfully develop and test the engines a new gear box is the need of the hour. with the all new aluminium block of revotron is ready with dohc(from the kite twins), direct injection, variable valve timing and turbocharging it would necessitate a new gear box either inhouse or outsourced (say tjet punto's gearbox). Timely update, low cost design solutions and efficient products are the need of the hour and TATA is on the right path may be on with a lower momentum but definitely on the right path.

I dont think so that Revotron 1.2T engine torque is limited due to TA65 gear box as main reason because Revotron engine is a simple low cost engine uses only 8valves and SOHC MPFI if TATA Replace current TA65 gear box with new one also power cant bump up because engine power limited due to current specs but if TATA replace 8vlaves head with 16valves DOHC then power can easily jump to 120BHP and 175NM Torque but this makes big scence on cost of engine

If rumours are to be believed there is a 3.0l 230bhp 600Nm engine is being tested on aria/hexa (twin turbo or on steroids, 4/6 cylinders no idea) and TATA shows the inhouse engine development capability of INDIAN engineering neverthless.

yes TATA jointly working with JLR to develop new range of high performence petrol and diesel engines due to both TATA & JLR badly needs in-house engines currently JLR sources engines from FORD

Again Tata tried to get platform from Cherry and if you talk about weight please compare swift and bolt and the mileage.

Its just rumor came when JLR joined hands with cherry but thats not true.

weight difference between swit and bolt is 100kgs but difference between mileage is nill how many swifts giving mileage more then 16kmpl in city? but TATA BOLT giving 15 to 17kmpl mileage in city driving conditions and everyone know that TATA Indigo manza managed to return 26+kmpl mileage on highway drive so weight deosnt matter.

And am talking about present scenario not past. Yes Indica was the most fuel efficient and it enjoyed a great market share and sales.
What about now??

TATA Indica still king in mileage thats why cabie valla never let down indica Have you heard about TATA Indigo ECS endurance run record entered in limca book of records the car crossed 19states 14000kms in just 14days. The Indigo eCS recorded the best fuel economy figure of 41.14kmpl along with average fuel economy of 18.7kmpl in the run

Yes you are right about revotron turbo part however as per a hint they actually worked on a new engine earlier and it was not ready thus turbo on xeta block brought as a stop gap. May be am wrong on this info however this is what i got from a Birdie.

TATA's Revotron 1.2T is not a stop gap engine for them its an main stream low cost engine to meet market requirements and i can say that on comming days tata use this engine in their commercial vehicles too where petrol powered small pickup trucks demands. but I agree that TATA ZEST/BOLT cars seems stop gap for that to hold market share steady.

 

[vikyjoshi]

Re: Tata Kite Compact Sedan (Indigo eCS Replacement)

greeing to you but Maruti was successful in achieving these figures before ARAI

coming to the mileage provided by Falcon. Insane mileages of 33 kmpl, 30 kmpl have been reported in Bolts WAY ABOVE THE ARAI figures. it may be for a very very brief period though but the engine is some thing to talk about. The tuning is some thing to talk about in falcons.

 

[eigenvalue]

Re: Tata Kite Compact Sedan (Indigo eCS Replacement)

I dont think so that Revotron 1.2T engine torque is limited due to TA65 gear box as main reason because Revotron engine is a simple low cost engine uses only 8valves and SOHC MPFI if TATA Replace current TA65 gear box with new one also power cant bump up because engine power limited due to current specs but if TATA replace 8vlaves head with 16valves DOHC then power can easily jump to 120BHP and 175NM Torque but this makes big scence on cost of engine

The reason why I chose to point out the gear box is because, in all previous instances of tata cr4 engine (1.4l, 16V, DOHC) the common factor is the ta65 gear box whose maximum torque limit is 140Nm. However I don't have any solid reason other than this to ascertain my claim. So theoretically this could also be one of the plausible reason for the torque figures of revotron. I do agree with later part of dohc stuff, but sohc aren't alone the culprit here. With all due respects, the possible reason can be speculated over and over but can't be ascertained. The famed highway scorcher VW GT TSI uses sohc and direct injection from aluminium alloy block putting figures at 105bhp and 175Nm. Although comparing port injection with direct injection is like comparing apples to oranges, but still the nonlinear variable(turbocharger) plays well in comparing.

 

[kasscon]

Re: Tata Kite Compact Sedan (Indigo eCS Replacement)

And then why bolt sport got high power figures by changing the gear box.. Put some light on it if you know about the math behind it

 

[gaddambhargavareddy]

Re: Tata Kite Compact Sedan (Indigo eCS Replacement)

And then why bolt sport got high power figures by changing the gear box.. Put some light on it if you know about the math behind it

TATA Not yet Officially revealed "BOLT Sports" engine Specs they just said car produces 120 hourses from Revotron 1.2T engine mated with FIATs C510 GearBox but they didnt said what kind of modifications done in engine but possibly there are two methods to bump up power of Revotron 1.2T engine adding 16Valves VVT head or adding Bigger TurboCharger is possible in Revotron 1.2T because engine block is made up of cost iron

 

[eigenvalue]

Re: Tata Kite Compact Sedan (Indigo eCS Replacement)

And then why bolt sport got high power figures by changing the gear box.. Put some light on it if you know about the math behind it

The reasons can be many and are known only to the design team, as the variables to play with are many and I don't have any concrete reason to point out the exact change. As I have already mentioned the reasons can just be speculated but can't be ascertained, until the official specifications are released.

 

[gaddambhargavareddy]

Re: Tata Kite Compact Sedan (Indigo eCS Replacement)

I felt that Upcoming TATA Kite will be much lighter kerb weight then its revivals may be power to weight ratio higher then MS Celerio because its based TATA Indica V2 TATA further modified this plaform for Kite we we all know that indica v2 IDI kerb weight is 995Kgs(Hydrolic power Steering+cast iron block 4cylinder diesel engine) but when it comes to TATA Kite Diesel comes lighter 3Cylinder Diesel engine(definitely lighter then current 4Cylinder engine) and a light Electronic power Steering system this two things bring down cars kerb weight and after comparing this specs i feel that maruti celerio diesel kerb weight is heavier because

- Maruti Celerio diesel:EPASS steering+light body+Aluminium 2cylinder diesel = 900kgs but

- TATA Indica V2 IDI:Heavy Hydrolic Power Steering+heavy tuff body+4Cylinder Cost Iron Diesel = 995Kgs

- So its Clear that TATA Cars are not much heavier when it considered with their out dated Technology