Tata Safari Storme Vs Rest of the Competition

[Gurrala74]

Friends,

Are we inline with the Thread meaning here, Okay to make things simple, still the thread poll says Storm is leading versus competition and XUV is a close contender and surprisingly the most debated decade old successful SUV scorpio is far away with the votes !!

According to me the Indian Auto buyers are two types

1. Sensible & bit practical thinking buyers : who study a product well in-terms of specs, practicality, all other aspects and do proper research on the same and buy the one which is most suitable for them and also which make more sense with the money they spent, so here these buyers will never look at the sales numbers or do not go with any single person's opinion and not influenced by anything. Eg : Punto,Ritz,Safari,Etios,Spark,Storm etc.,

2. Mass buyers : These buyers can be called as more influenced by external factors like, friends, relatives, colleagues, News papers,advertisements etc., who just buy a vehicle as some body who they believe said it is good or a neighbour bought one or the vehicle have good numbers, have seen more times in TV ads, or new paper ads. It is something like mass mania which drives them Eg : Swift, Swift dzire, Alto, scorpio, sumo, indica, duster etc., they never bother about any issues and niggles as they think that they are part of a big group which owns such vehicle and such that their decision is correct and vehicle is great, because most of the people bought it, so it can't go wrong, they are happy seeing more vehicles on the road always, they never get into the pros and cons of the vehicle at all.

So in their own ways both the type of buyers are correct and that is how the Auto market is driven in India. So from a manufacturer you can see a product which sells huge numbers and a vehicle sells very low numbers.

So it is not correct saying vehicle with more numbers is always good and vehicle with less numbers is bad, it is the perception of the buyer and it is difficult to say what exactly drives him to take such decision in the last moment. But most of the buyers say that their vehicle is great since they own one and the funniest part is the moment they sell it and shift to other brand or other vehicle, then they come out saying the previous vehicles was useless and they had number of troubles

So in this thread we really need to discuss, how Storm fairs with the competition and in what way and it is just waste of time to discuss the sales numbers here as it will no way help us to share some knowledge here

All the above about the buying culture in India is my observation and subjective opinion and not to offend any body or any brand ~!!

 

[Vinu]

A product sells when there is no alternative or there is sufficient proof that the maker sells reliable products. It takes time to regain lost trust. If people can't see the writing on the wall, they start loathing the buying public, call a painted dhabba that sells stale food a star restaurant and so on and so forth.

 

[Tornado]

I again state it that i have only mentioned if a product does goodnumbers consistently over long periods of time, in case of the scorpio, a decade, it ticks more boxes than what the competition in that segment has to offer.

It is very easy to undestand now.As you have now used correct words to describe the concerned issue.
I will like to limit the discussion to the cars concerned on this thread as far as possible.
The origin of the high sales figure comes from number of average buyers.

What is average buyer?
Average buyer is one who gives average importance to most of the aspects of the product concerned.(I am saying average importance and not full importance) And this is the catch of the debate going on this thread.i.e. Sales figure vs Info based decision.
The average buyers can also be called as ordinary buyers while remaining can be called as non-average or extraordinary buyers.

Now ,what are needs or compulsions of average buyers?
They need to drive their cars themselves, reason is that they can not afford a chauffeur or they can not afford /like to loose one comfy frontseat meant for the tall or normaly tall family member.
In case of exclusively self driven cars , the buyer thinks of his own comfort than the back benchers.This is again compounded by the fact that the average height of the i.ndians is less than 5 f 9 in, so by natural Indian tendency height of the other family members is less than him usually if not always.In India most of the time buyer/owner/head of the family is male.Now this averagely tall buyer might be having some friends/relatives who are quite taller than him. But he can not give due importance to their needs and comfort because he has average budget unless he desides to to do independent research and finds out more fulfilling options are available at nearly same budget.

AFA this thread is concerned , scorpio has scored better sales figures becoz it nurtures needs of the average buyers .It can not nurture needs of the non average buyers whose numbers is less than numbers of average buyers. For example , if back benchers are are 6 feet + the under thigh support of middle seat is hopeless in scorpio.
I have taken height and comfort as example becoz it is going to be a constant.
If a situation arises as follows , only two family members are 6 feet + , one of them happens to go to long trip (read to the appropriate airport or the appropriate railway station)for honeymoon, or coming back from marriage hall to the home city .Obviously it will be a chauffeur driven suv on this THREAD.Now the husband atleast who is 6 feet + will have to seat on the middle seat along with the wife. He will be definitely comfortable with SAFARI than scorpio.

For average buyers budget is the most important compulsion. For non average buyers they can stretch their budget to an extent which can be out of reach of the average buyers MOSTof the time.
The one more problem of average buyer is non availability of the time to do independent research on buying decision, so they tend to believe on suggestions given by friendneighbours and SE such as close the eyes and go for xyz brand or ABC car and whenever they get confused due to it , they are asked to open the eyes and shown the sales figures and deal is done. And then the' positive feed back mechanism' goes on leading to consistency in sales figure.
Now the resale value depends on the demand , and demand depends on the number of eaverage people trying to buy the products.

,Now ,why does high selling cars get the boxes right ticked more than low selling cars?
Reason is simple , number of average buyers is high.It is easier for any car to fulfil the average needs.
Now the question arises that why TATA Safari is not able to impress the buyer that it is offering much more comfort than the scorpio .
Reasons are as follows : 1)TATAs do not believe in hunting down the custemers and let the custemer do his own researh . 2) The after market type features available OE on the best seller are too tempting for average buyers's and his well wisher's psyche.

Some times non average buyer also contribute to sales figure of the best selling car.But
their decision is research and need based than the sales figure based.I know there is on e member on this forum who owns a merc benz s class and bought a swift dezire too, but I am sure he did not bought the dezire because of its high sales figure but fulfilment of his needs based on his research.
So non average buyers can have non average or average requirements.
While average buyers limit their requirements deleberately to average needs only even if it is possible for them to go for non average things leading to ticking more right boxes,hence the sales figures.

Please, feel free to attack.




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[Superbad]

^ that opinion is again subjective since it referred as average.
I would like to put it as it has covered maximum preferences concerning the buyers.
If your points are valid then safari makes itself a good candidate for a chaffeur driven car since it has good amount of legroom in the middle row.
Then safari should be a hot favourite with the taxi segment, the same way the indica and indigo were because of good interior space and relatively cheaper maintenance costs.

Yet the picture is different.

 

[TSIVipul]

It is very easy to undestand now.As you have now used correct words to describe the concerned issue................................................more right boxes,hence the sales figures.

Very well said Tornado and I agree on at least 50% of it, but sorry to differ on 50% too.
Reason is simple, any average buyer in India always search for

• Space and comfort
• FE
• Features
• Interior and exterior fit and finish
• Boot space
• Low maintenance and high resale value
• Net performance and driveability
• Confidence(ride and handling balance)
• Price(VFM factor)
• Usability(Total utilization of what is on offer)
• A.S.S.
• Brand

Now these are the boxes(for majority of buyers) and any car which ticks all of them is a good car and of course is selling good too. I am not saying that any car which offers best of all of them, instead any car which offers a fine balance between all of them is always a good seller. Pick up any high volume car from market and try to fit it in this criteria and you will understand why bestsellers are bestsellers(only exception is Alto which I guess fits best in what you have mentioned). And same way if any good car is not selling in high numbers then also look at the list and I am sure the car will be found missing an ingredient or two and hence it's not selling.
Let me try to make a matrix between Scorpio, Safari(2.2 vtt - as it's too early to give points to Storme on some aspects) and XUV(scores are out of 10), this can help us understand what makes the higher selling product higher selling:

​

There are some fantastic vehicles like Punto etc which score higher than the competition overall but still they lose because they score pathetic in a field or two because cons always kill the pros.

^ that opinion is again subjective since it referred as average.

Buddy I beg to differ but I personally found the reasons quite spot on(at least 50%).

I would like to put it as it has covered maximum preferences concerning the buyers.
If your points are valid then safari makes itself a good candidate for a chaffeur driven car since it has good amount of legroom in the middle row.
Then safari should be a hot favourite with the taxi segment, the same way the indica and indigo were because of good interior space and relatively cheaper maintenance costs.

About the taxi market I don't know but on the chauffeur driven point I agree 100%.
BTW, Scorpio still has enough space to seat a six footer behind another(I have owned Scorpy 2.6(I loved it's peppy performance BTW) and never felt that Scorpy can't seat four six footers).

 

[MrRanger]

Very well said Tornado and I agree on at least 50% of it, but sorry to differ on 50% too.
Reason is simple, any average buyer in India always search for

• Space and comfort
• FE
• Features
• Interior and exterior fit and finish
• Boot space
• Low maintenance and high resale value
• Net performance and driveability
• Confidence(ride and handling balance)
• Price(VFM factor)
• Usability(Total utilization of what is on offer)
• A.S.S.
• Brand

Now these are the boxes(for majority of buyers) and any car which ticks all of them is a good car and of course is selling good too. I am not saying that any car which offers best of all of them, instead any car which offers a fine balance between all of them is always a good seller. Pick up any high volume car from market and try to fit it in this criteria and you will understand why bestsellers are bestsellers(only exception is Alto which I guess fits best in what you have mentioned). And same way if any good car is not selling in high numbers then also look at the list and I am sure the car will be found missing an ingredient or two and hence it's not selling.
Let me try to make a matrix between Scorpio, Safari(2.2 vtt - as it's too early to give points to Storme on some aspects) and XUV(scores are out of 10), this can help us understand what makes the higher selling product higher selling:

View attachment 76895​

There are some fantastic vehicles like Punto etc which score higher than the competition overall but still they lose because they score pathetic in a field or two because cons always kill the pros.


Buddy I beg to differ but I personally found the reasons quite spot on(at least 50%).


About the taxi market I don't know but on the chauffeur driven point I agree 100%.
BTW, Scorpio still has enough space to seat a six footer behind another(I have owned Scorpy 2.6(I loved it's peppy performance BTW) and never felt that Scorpy can't seat four six footers).

Sorry to tell you buddy your statistics looks more subjective and limited to your personal opinion. Those statistics looks funny, if Understanding Market is that easy then there is no question at all.
there are loads of reason for products success or failure, most of the time it is only because of marketing strategy, if you looks at the case of Duster it is clear, Renult made aggressive marketing and people started believing that it is more affordable small SUV but when it launched real story is different.

Same you compare this with TATAs strategy of marketing STORME, it still unknow for many, so stop your mindless statics and close this discussion on sales number.

 

[THE XOVER]

No matter what people(commoners and purists) say,the real competitior of Storme is XUV5OO,and it will remain so as these cars criss-cross at the same price point.At the moment XUV has the upper hand because of being more feature laden,but once Tata will launch A/T Storme at the end of this year and load Storme with more features,this fight will only get more hardcore,trust me!

 

[Raja]

Very well said Tornado and I agree on at least 50% of it, but sorry to differ on 50% too.
Reason is simple, any average buyer in India always search for

• Space and comfort
• FE
• Features
• Interior and exterior fit and finish
• Boot space
• Low maintenance and high resale value
• Net performance and driveability
• Confidence(ride and handling balance)
• Price(VFM factor)
• Usability(Total utilization of what is on offer)
• A.S.S.
• Brand

Now these are the boxes(for majority of buyers) and any car which ticks all of them is a good car and of course is selling good too. I am not saying that any car which offers best of all of them, instead any car which offers a fine balance between all of them is always a good seller. Pick up any high volume car from market and try to fit it in this criteria and you will understand why bestsellers are bestsellers(only exception is Alto which I guess fits best in what you have mentioned). And same way if any good car is not selling in high numbers then also look at the list and I am sure the car will be found missing an ingredient or two and hence it's not selling.
Let me try to make a matrix between Scorpio, Safari(2.2 vtt - as it's too early to give points to Storme on some aspects) and XUV(scores are out of 10), this can help us understand what makes the higher selling product higher selling:

View attachment 76895​

There are some fantastic vehicles like Punto etc which score higher than the competition overall but still they lose because they score pathetic in a field or two because cons always kill the pros.


Buddy I beg to differ but I personally found the reasons quite spot on(at least 50%).


About the taxi market I don't know but on the chauffeur driven point I agree 100%.
BTW, Scorpio still has enough space to seat a six footer behind another(I have owned Scorpy 2.6(I loved it's peppy performance BTW) and never felt that Scorpy can't seat four six footers).

On what basis you reached the matrix which you have created ? Sorry but its purely subjective . And in no way you can decide and claim this is what buyer * allways * looks for in a car . if it was so easy and dandy car markers would have not spend fortunes in market research and survey and yet got it wrong and correct at random times .

1 small suggestion kindly read books like - tipping point , fooled by randomness , freakonomics , black swan ( they will help you immensely about life in general too )

You will understand all concept of herd mentality , confirmation bias and other things and actually what goes in while making a desicion in buyers mind .

By this iam not against the sales number of xuv or Scorpio its a objective fact it sells ( why it sales has many reasons its not black and white and we can start a thread for it , since here it can lead to off topic discussions )

The point is simple less sales dosent equate to bad product .

 

[Slushmaster]

Hi friends,

Just want to add few bits:

1) mileage: 14.2 kmpl, which includes city, highway and 20% offroading. It's a 4x4.
2) exceptional ride quality, it eats potholes and bad roads.
3) no visible and audible niggle after driving it continuously for 16 hours on bad roads and even while offroading.
4) handling and brakes are perfect and compliment each other, much improved than previous one. You have to know these SUVs before you throw them to tests.
5) the pickup is also improved vastly, don't know if it is better than Scorpio, but it is way ahead of safari.
6) tried dunes and steep hills and 4L pulled it out every time I stuck.

Only negative is tata service, which is still pathetic... And I am sure these guys are doing nothing for it.. Storme is a brilliant product, but tata doesn't want it to be a sucessful one..


Thanks,
Slushmaster

 

[Gurrala74]

Hi friends,

Just want to add few bits:

1) mileage: 14.2 kmpl, which includes city, highway and 20% offroading. It's a 4x4.
2) exceptional ride quality, it eats potholes and bad roads.
3) no visible and audible niggle after driving it continuously for 16 hours on bad roads and even while offroading.
4) handling and brakes are perfect and compliment each other, much improved than previous one. You have to know these SUVs before you throw them to tests.
5) the pickup is also improved vastly, don't know if it is better than Scorpio, but it is way ahead of safari.
6) tried dunes and steep hills and 4L pulled it out every time I stuck.

Only negative is tata service, which is still pathetic... And I am sure these guys are doing nothing for it.. Storme is a brilliant product, but tata doesn't want it to be a sucessful one..


Thanks,
Slushmaster

Looks nice on everything and , yes TASS is capable of such things always and I wish they do not do the same thing with Storm !!

 

[alexddas]

Looks nice on everything and , yes TASS is capable of such things always and I wish they do not do the same thing with Storm !!

All tata big cars from sieara,estate,safari were loaded with big features but none of them crossed 100000kms as smooth as toyota always do so iam always with the fortuner and let us wait for a miracle STORM may give to TATA.

 

[jayadev]

^^Show me one Toyota SUV in India which crossed that 100000 mark .please!

 

[THE XOVER]

1) mileage: 14.2 kmpl, which includes city, highway and 20% offroading. It's a 4x4.

Wow overall mileage of 14.2 kmpl by a 2+ton beast,I am completely

2) exceptional ride quality, it eats potholes and bad roads.
3) no visible and audible niggle after driving it continuously for 16 hours on bad roads and even while offroading.
4) handling and brakes are perfect and compliment each other, much improved than previous one. You have to know these SUVs before you throw them to tests.
5) the pickup is also improved vastly, don't know if it is better than Scorpio, but it is way ahead of safari.

All of this is great to hear.

6) tried dunes and steep hills and 4L pulled it out every time I stuck.

Being true to your handle slush-master:-)

Only negative is tata service, which is still pathetic... And I am sure these guys are doing nothing for it.. Storme is a brilliant product, but tata doesn't want it to be a sucessful one..

Complain to high Tata management immediately if you see any problems.

 

[freakdude]

Very well said Tornado and I agree on at least 50% of it, but sorry to differ on 50% too.
Reason is simple, any average buyer in India always search for

• Space and comfort
• FE
• Features
• Interior and exterior fit and finish
• Boot space
• Low maintenance and high resale value
• Net performance and driveability
• Confidence(ride and handling balance)
• Price(VFM factor)
• Usability(Total utilization of what is on offer)
• A.S.S.
• Brand

Now these are the boxes(for majority of buyers) and any car which ticks all of them is a good car and of course is selling good too. I am not saying that any car which offers best of all of them, instead any car which offers a fine balance between all of them is always a good seller. Pick up any high volume car from market and try to fit it in this criteria and you will understand why bestsellers are bestsellers(only exception is Alto which I guess fits best in what you have mentioned). And same way if any good car is not selling in high numbers then also look at the list and I am sure the car will be found missing an ingredient or two and hence it's not selling.
Let me try to make a matrix between Scorpio, Safari(2.2 vtt - as it's too early to give points to Storme on some aspects) and XUV(scores are out of 10), this can help us understand what makes the higher selling product higher selling:

View attachment 76895​

There are some fantastic vehicles like Punto etc which score higher than the competition overall but still they lose because they score pathetic in a field or two because cons always kill the pros.


Buddy I beg to differ but I personally found the reasons quite spot on(at least 50%).


About the taxi market I don't know but on the chauffeur driven point I agree 100%.
BTW, Scorpio still has enough space to seat a six footer behind another(I have owned Scorpy 2.6(I loved it's peppy performance BTW) and never felt that Scorpy can't seat four six footers).

Buddy the thread is Storme vs competition and you have omitted Storme itself from the wonderful matrix you have created. I think we have enough owners and extensive test drive reports that can provide sufficient data for your matrix.

Also a few points that I am not able to understand and need your help :

In Price, you have given XUV highest marks, so, higher the price higher the marks because if we see the VFM quotient then Safari or Scorpio score way over XUV.

Now, in ASS you have given different points to Scorpio and XUV, why?? Both share the common ASS.

In confidence you have rated Scorpio below Safari but in Performance and Drive-ability, Scorpio is rated more that Safari, isn't this a sheer contradiction?

Also, what do you mean by Usability. I don't see a particular usage which Scorpio can do and Safari can't.
I really appreciate your efforts but I found the allotted points a bit haywire.

Also, at points when you say that "I personally found the reasons quite spot-on" then this is being subjective buddy as this is your personal observation and not a market rule.

freakdude.

 

[Tornado]

^ that opinion is again subjective since it referred as average.
I would like to put it as it has covered maximum preferences concerning the buyers.
If your points are valid then safari makes itself a good candidate for a chaffeur driven car since it has good amount of legroom in the middle row.
Then safari should be a hot favourite with the taxi market.

The ' number of average buyers' is not a subjective thing , but a mathematical term.

You have used wrong words ' maximum preferences' to decribe 'average requirements' of the average buyers, because maximum means near the upper limit .And average buyer. flimsy concepts of budget
doesn't allow him to do so unless he is pushed ahead by the herd around.

No, for the info based decision maker Safari is not best chauffeur driven suv but best owner+ chauffeur driven suv.
Safari will never be a favorite for Taxi market because they prefer a car with marginally better FE, over underthigh support of the tall middle row passenger.If I am the custemer of the taxi and when I know the front passenger seat will be occupied by my father(taller than me) and I will have to sit on the mid row.I will ask for Safari over scorpio and pay bit more than scorpio's rent for sacrificing the marginally better FE.But the average buyer limits his wishes and compromise on comfort of his own or family members comfort irrespective of taxi or personal car.

but sorry to differ on 50% too.
Reason is simple, any average buyer in India always search for

• Space and comfort
• FE
• Features
• Interior and exterior fit and finish
• Boot space
• Low maintenance and high resale value
• Net performance and driveability
• Confidence(ride and handling balance)
• Price(VFM factor)
• Usability(Total utilization of what is on offer)
• A.S.S.
• Brand

Now these are the boxes(for majority of buyers) that the myth behind high sales figure needs to be and any car which ticks all of them is a good car and of course is selling good too. I am not saying that any car which offers best of all of them, instead any car which offers a fine balencebetween all of them is always a good seller.



About the taxi market I don't know but on the chauffeur driven point I agree 100%.
BTW, Scorpio still has enough space to seat a six footer behinother(I have owned Scorpy 2.6(I loved it's peppy performance BTW) and never felt that Scorpy can't seat four six footers).

Well, I must congratulate you , for disagreeing on some points mentioning reasons behind the disagreement and thank this forum for having a member who believes that reason behind high sales volume needs to be investigated.

The 'fine balence ' part of your post is definitely agreed upon by me, only problem is that in case of best sellers the 'fine balence' part is decided by the SE, neighbours and relatives who never study the needs of a buyer IN DETAILS.

Now, I am fully agreed with you that 6 feeter can sit on middle seat behind a 6 feeter in scorpio but if adequte research is done on the underthigh support, safari wins straight away.Now , what is the problem if one has to pay one thousand Rs more on safari 's fuel than than the scorpio for a 4500 km pune-Rajasthan trip.

BTW, the matrix prepared by you needs discussion from my side also , will do it in next post.