Tata Motor’s Cars – The Ultimate Reliability Survey

[Tornado]

Re: What’s Wrong with Tata Motors? An Open Letter To Karl Slym

Might be the praises when the car was new and when the real world ownership cost and issue raises in a car after it reaches more than 20k kms or 2 years then is the time we pamic.E.

On the contrary , maranprasnth has bought the car in feb 12 , suffered most of the worrisome defects , issues since beginning and voted for manza as best entry level sedan in 2013. The Automotive India - View Poll Results

@Raja & Tornado:
Almost all Height adjustable seats in Manza and Vista height has problem of automatically declining.

To my surprise , I found that you own Manza AURA which does not come with height adjustible seat.

BTW , I am amused to know that manza , vista comes with all height adjustible seats .

Few samples of New OE Bumpers for Manza and their

theese issues were not there in the Company FItted Bumpers.

Buddy , If you go through all your posts in the past , you will find that most of the time you have claimed that you are not on theis forum to make fun and you don't want to create comedy .But finally you have created it.

The person is satisfied with company fitted bumper paint and he gets OE bumpers repainted !

Now , if you say that ' it is my own wish ,' , I won't get surprised .


@biker , you can see that maranprasnth is not satisfied with the manza since day one of ownership .Click the quote and find more details.
Also you will find that there is huge gap of few months between TATA praising posts and TATA bashing posts (He has posted TATA praising post during the period in during which he suffered badly from TATA car and TASS & TML .). And I also found that maran prashant has not posted a single post on entire forum .It seems he has received some brainwash during this period.

 

[Raja]

Re: What’s Wrong with Tata Motors? An Open Letter To Karl Slym

Someone at some point can be patriotic or some other reason for loving Desi brands when buying for the first time. but, after years of owning such vehicles with an expectation of Toyota like reliability makes them whine and turns as haters. it cannot be "proven" but can be taken as a personal account - whether to believe it or not - depends.
every time a new car, this Desi brand launches, many gives positive reviews but, the ownership experience will indicate the car is ageing pretty fast with costly parts getting replaced during warranty period itself(is a very bad sign of what is coming!) !!

So, I guess @maranprashanth is going through is not much different.

We need Japanese reliability more than European Cars like handling in India. the amount of parts failing must be almost Nil until the first cycle of 4 years at least. Engine guarantee for at least 250,000-300,000kms. Our neighbouring countries have totally gone as a JDM cars secondhand market - be it Bangladesh or Srilanka. they have brand new maruti/suzuki India cars available still will go for a 15 or 19 years old Toyota product!!! guess why? same is the case in many developing countries also and even Newzealand! too.

@ respected senior member biker
and
all respected members



First and foremost the discussion between maranprashant and me was going on storme thread which was moved here . First it was specefic to storme and then maranprashant involved all tata cars . Hence it got moved here .

Now respected and senior member autosafari started this thread


What’s Wrong with Tata Motors? An Open Letter To Karl Slym

The entire purpose of this thread is to give suggestions , criticize , help, bash tata motors . So the new MD may read it and act upon it .

All have posted and crtizied tata motors on this thread including me and members who are debating with maranprashant .

Debate is going hard with maranprashant and other members is because untill feb 2013 maranprashant was debating hard with every one practically on every tata related thread on how tata cars are best in class and superior and most of the time reason given was his years and years of expreince of driving tata cars for more then lakh Kms .

And now suddenly for reason known to him maranprashant is claming all tata cars are rubbish .

Lets assume and accept in 4 months time maranprashant relaized all of a sudden that tata cars which he used from 2004 for lakh and lakh Kms are rubbish and felt he needs to be vocal even after claiming on this very forum 4 months ago that his own sumo has covered 3 lakhs 78 thousand Kms without any problems and still working fine .

Is he allowed to be vocal , critize ,bash tata motors ? Ofcourse he can , he is free to do so . But he can very well write about his" own expreince " about his own cars he can't generalize things like

@raja:
The New Indigo CS FIP problem
The New Sumo Gold updated version Oil Leak Problem
The New Manza Also having unreliable Suspension Problems.
The New Indica CR4 also FIP and water pump problem.
The Vista often getting problems with the Fan Motors and Power windows

They them self say its only a eye wash

Same way in STORME rattling noises don't have a permanent solution and Gear Box/Gear rod noises?
Some vehicle Cylinder vacuum is not formed and instead air enters which make clutch suddenly very hard and non operateable,Then you have to stop the vehicle bring it to N-Gear pump the clutch and then you have to move it.

@Raja :
Manza Suspension even club class shows its character from 25000Kms onwards.
Mostly All 2012 and club class manza have a major issue with the Airconditioner that still exists and there is no solution at all, temprory solution they provide is reduce the quantity of gas and they state that this avoids freezing or mal function of thermostat.



The TATA MOTORS OE parts are worst than the company fitted parts.
After various tests also they deliver a improper vehicle only.

Sumo Gold the day 1 Kept in showroom have oil leak



Long Term Ownership
They TASS people are feared to change the parts under warranty, After changing the part its 60% chance only that they approve warranty and hence they makeup something and send the vehicle out of garage.
There is no proper CSMs to guide or support the ASS so intern the customer is only affected

@Anshuman8: My manza compeleted 31000Kms and Vista 22000Kms and I have many commercial vehicles with me and most of them are TML vehicles.
I had told you after 25000Kms and your stating that your MAnza is 11K done what is the use?
And YES if it causes damages its inferior only what ever the brand may be.
IF you people want come chennai and check my vehicles.
If you could read the sentence properly it could be better as I have told you the Manza A/C due to high cooling or defective Thermostat gets freezed and yor stating as if I said the cooling is low?
?

@Tornado:

Rattling noise are not at all solved at all.
Parcel tray Noise its a manufacturing defect and they made so many weldings to correct that and there is no solution.
Pillar mounted Plastics are also producing noises and there is no solution for that except temprary packings.
A/C thermostat not working properly in many manzas
Almost all Height adjustable seats in Manza and Vista height has problem of automatically declining.

Because if he is generalizing things he has to provide links/ source / pics something as evidence to prove his point .

Whatever ever points he has claimed are already refuted by other manza , vista owners which one can read in above posts and debates .

Hot debate happens on storme vs xuv thread and many other threads and members supporting either of the cars or point of view bring many points and do give a valid proof by providing links/ source or pics to prove their point .

The automotive India is a website which has devloped a strong reputation as one of the most dynamic , un biased , truthfull website which is loaded with honest reviews and correct information hence awarded for consecutive years as the best automotive website of the year

People base their descions and take TAI has reference point for making descions . All this has been possible only because all memebers have provided information with source / link which makes the information truthful and authentic which can be trusted and relied upon .

When maranprashant claims that the last month newly launched cars by tata motors have problems it his duty to provide the forum with links / source .

One can't just come and say xyz car in the showroom was leaking oil or all manza's and vista's have AC problems and seat adjustment doesn't work . He has to prove by giving us a link that many members are facing this problem .

Or he has to specifically mention that this problems are happening in his car only because its evident that no manza or vista owner has so far agreed upon his claims about the problems he is claiming that all owners are facing .

When we claim hyundai has steering rattling issue and many owners face it our duty is to back it up with
I20 Steering Problem - Hyundai Forums : Hyundai Forum

And

http://www.indiagarage.com/thread3590.html

Maranprashant is all free to wage a war against tata motors and infact as a consumer he must if cars provided to him personally are with some major problem. Infact the forum can help him by guiding him to consumer court or other best possible ways .

But when he claims all cars have problems ( which is refuted by other owners )and specially the cars launched by tata motors last month which must not been even delivered to consumers he has to provide link , source or something to back up his own statements .

 

[MSN1]

Re: What’s Wrong with Tata Motors? An Open Letter To Karl Slym

i never used (driven) tata cars, but i didnt hate them also
but my daily travel to office is on a tata made sumo or indicab provided by office

those drivers are using this vehicles for years i know few of them had the sumo since 5 years

of course they are not in mint condition and one cant expect it to be in mint or niggle free state as those vehicles used to run around 200 kms per day, so this cabs are more than 2 lakhs kms old,

when i ask the drivers they used to say the maintenance is low and its not drinking fuel much, and they used to change engine oil every alternate month

its a well built car indicab is having more rear bench space than any other car in its segment.

*if some one drives and maintained the car in too negligent way then it goes to bad state sooner and develops problems like sqeeking noise and so on,,,,*

if it is honda car most of them used to keep it clean and make it shine everyday and drive it carefully and i have seen ppl driving tata manza like a 4x4 in normal road (dont apply break or slowdown while crossing the speed humps or pot holes), and the same attitude is there with the TAS (Tata Authorized Service) they dont pay much attention or interest on servicing those cars as their interest or love towards automobile belongs to some other brand thus many of them just doing it for the job sake and not loving the job they are doing - this i have observed in few tata service center ppl

not everyone but part of us used to use the Indian brands like anything and expected everything from it (this is applicable to pulsar/ bajaj bikes too)

 

[MSN1]

Re: What’s Wrong with Tata Motors? An Open Letter To Karl Slym

@Raja & Tornado: I like TML cars are for my height they only provide comforts but at the same time I can not support for a brand as I like.

There are various reasons for me to own TML cars and they are totally my wish
In commercial segment I'm not at all able to satisfy the customers with Etios or Figo Instead of Indica V2 or Indigo XL its a monopoly.

Took manza for its power and comfort. FOr the cost I payed and for my desire the vehicle is ok. but TML has cheated the customers in many ways.

Rattling noise are not at all solved at all.
Parcel tray Noise its a manufacturing defect and they made so many weldings to correct that and there is no solution.
Pillar mounted Plastics are also producing noises and there is no solution for that except temprary packings.
A/C thermostat not working properly in many manzas
Almost all Height adjustable seats in Manza and Vista height has problem of automatically declining.

@ Maranprashant

what do you meant by cheated by TML did they provided a tomato instead of the car

one simple query for you

when you purchased the car it was in good condition and the above issues reported by you was not their and even after a month it was still in good condition and its your car

so if you agree with above two statements, which means tata delivered its product in good condition and they did provided warranty and free services along with scheduled maintenance details and other important info in the manual [like any other manufacturer], what more we can expect from the manufacturer

and you are the one who used the vehicle (either TATA or anyone else haven't used it) and while giving the car for each service you signed the sheet that says received the car in good condition [FYI : your dealer is still having a copy of those receipts on record for safer sake]

so do you want me to say who is the culprit here
and do you want someone else to say see the mirror @ 90 digress, to know who spoiled your avatar aka car

if you feel good your health will improve if you feel bad it will deteriorate, same principle is applicable to car too, be happy with the car you have and keep your car in Happier (good) condition

am not kidding it was in-fact proven the way we operate ABC pedals while in good mood is different from the way we operate the ABC pedals while in bad or in a hurry or tension mood is completely different

ABC = Accelerator, Break and Clutch

 

[maranprashanth]

Re: What’s Wrong with Tata Motors? An Open Letter To Karl Slym

@Raja that was a new bumper and OE part supplied to the Dealer and they couldn't fit the Bezels and the bolt wholes did not match.
@Appu: Its not re-painting boss its a Painting done to new bumper.
See the pics carefull The bezels and their clips are not proper and they are not in positions.
@Guralla: I like TML cars but problems are problems only.I'm not praising M&M or Bashing TML.

Chennai Regional People of TML are useless and still further problems which could be solved easily are not at all solved.

I have a Dzire tour and there are no rattling noises as of now and its a commercial vehicle.

And Few pics for about the speaker pad/Parcel tray noise rattling noise correction measures













Will any Manufacturer or dealer do such 3rd rate work?

And the diffect still is not rectified.

Sumo GOLD a small rubber hose costing rs.85 is been changed free of cost to people who have oil leak.

Vista I have got the seats approval itseems by last month itself but seats are yet to come.

@Tornado: I was not praising TML not Bashing M&M. My point was TML cars are comfortable for its class better than M&M in terms of Comfort alone. and maintance cost is less comparing M&M and that too was in the Storme VS XUV THread and GOLD VS Bolero.

If you cant undertand the difference then I cant help you.

 

[Raja]

Re: What’s Wrong with Tata Motors? An Open Letter To Karl Slym

@Raja that was a new bumper and OE part supplied to the Dealer and they couldn't fit the Bezels and the bolt wholes did not match.
@Appu: Its not re-painting boss its a Painting done to new bumper.
See the pics carefull The bezels and their clips are not proper and they are not in positions.
@Guralla: I like TML cars but problems are problems only.I'm not praising M&M or Bashing TML.

Chennai Regional People of TML are useless and still further problems which could be solved easily are not at all solved.

I have a Dzire tour and there are no rattling noises as of now and its a commercial vehicle.

And Few pics for about the speaker pad/Parcel tray noise rattling noise correction measures

View attachment 98728

View attachment 98729

View attachment 98730

View attachment 98731

View attachment 98732

View attachment 98733

Will any Manufacturer or dealer do such 3rd rate work?

And the diffect still is not rectified.

Who send the bumper ? Who tried to fit it ? And why ? Be clear in that .

This is your car and we know that . What about your claims of all manza , vista having AC and automatic seat heighg declining problems ? Show us links / source /for that .

One member had his engine oil leak problem in maruti ertiga , he started a thread but he dint say all ertiga's are having problems .because all ertiga's were not having problems.


You are free to post your bad expreinces , don't make generalized statements like all cars have this problems because other owners of manzas and vista don't agree with you since they don't face this problems which you are claming .

And why are you not going to the consumer court ? You must .have you posted this pics in mr Karl's twitter page ?

And show us source / link / pics about the problems you claimed are present in last month launched new cars by tata motors under horizon next .

 

[Gurrala74]

Re: What’s Wrong with Tata Motors? An Open Letter To Karl Slym

@Maran

I am bit surprised again, from where all you got all those pics ?? Is that your car, then why so many weldings ??

I am speechless when you show those tiny panel gaps and difference of fitments, do you drive the car OR keep looking at the panel gaps always All those you have reported are really tiny and silly things to me and which can be fixed in one go with service guys just standing in front of them or shouting at them. These really do not qualify to say entire range of that manufacturer are unreliable and all the people working there are useless.

You claims seems to be like opposition party come out with some issue anyway to trouble the ruling party. As suggested by Raja, please open a specific problems thread of your car, so that you get a solution to the same or convey to the buyers

 

[navnit013]

Re: What’s Wrong with Tata Motors? An Open Letter To Karl Slym

Maran ji, That weld is called spot welding. And you can never ever match the factory spot welding. And its not foam, its adhesive that they have used to make you happy. So that it wont rattle again.

And bumper doesnt come painted from the factory. It only comes in black (fibre). It is locally painted. And you can never match the factory paint quality.

As for your ICE color not matching, You have to get used to it. Paint on a plastic (even metal) will fade. And when you fix a new part (ICE) there will be obvious difference in paint appearance. As far as fitting is concerned, yes its a shoddy job and you can complain about it and it valid.

 

[Tornado]

Re: What’s Wrong with Tata Motors? An Open Letter To Karl Slym

@Appu: Its not re-painting boss its a Painting done to new bumper.]

What could be reason behind ordering unpainted bumper ? @Appu , any guess.?

And Few pics for about the speaker pad/Parcel tray noise rattling noise correction measures

View attachment 98728

View attachment 98729

View attachment 98730

View attachment 98731

View attachment 98732 ]

My Manza is also AURA , but there is no metal part in the parcel tray , how come weilding is required ?

Buddy , I am depressed to see that you are dragging m & m in this thread .And Mr. Karl , if happens.to read this letter directed to him , he might throw it in the dust bin .
I request you , please do not tarnish image of the TAI forum by dragging in OFF TOPIC m & m in this five star rated thread as it is visible in you r thread shown bellow.

I won't like karl labeling my beloved forum TAI as a comedy forum.
It is my humble request to you to note that Mr. karl slym is not the part of m& m's think tank

 

[anshuman8]

Re: What’s Wrong with Tata Motors? An Open Letter To Karl Slym

And why are you not going to the consumer court ? You must .have you posted this pics in mr Karl's twitter page ?

In fact I had suggested him same on his own thread. Given him the link also.

 

[Superbad]

Re: What’s Wrong with Tata Motors? An Open Letter To Karl Slym

hmm. this thread turned from what's wrong with tata motors to whats wrong with maran pretty quick.

maran , a suggestion , update your ownership review and mention your grudges there.

members wont always agree with you, so no point in debating who is wrong.

 

[Tornado]

Re: What’s Wrong with Tata Motors? An Open Letter To Karl Slym

maran , a suggestion , update your ownership review ]

+100 , As it is clear and white truth that front bumper painting , weldings at parcel tray , weldings at doors -repaint etc. are not part of routine maintainance. Many TASS s are incapable of carrying out routine servicings properlytill cars keep on running nicely. So I am not surprised to see if welding and repaint etc. not done to maranprasnth's satisfaction.

If he wants to mention grudges , he should do so in context to the ASS rather than bashing all cars of TML haphazardly. No dobt , it is TML & karl slym's duty to bring consistency in in quality of TASSES all over India.

No problem , if he bashes all TML cars , but with links /photos etc. , instead he keeps on buying TML cars ((reasons -1) his taxi custemers demand TML cars (reason-2) for personal use -it is his will,certifying them as better than competition on other threads, recomends TML car to other TAI ns on on the other hand he has voted that he is not at all satisfied with his TATA cars. http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/f...227-how-much-satisfied-you-your-tata-car.html


.And then he posts pics of unsatisfactory work done by TASS , but choose to avoid postig pre work pics .


Again , it is reputation of this forum which gets spoiled .

members wont always agree with you, .

Members would definitely agree with him usually if not always ,if he doesn't hide anything.

 

[Highway Ranger]

Re: What’s Wrong with Tata Motors? An Open Letter To Karl Slym

What could be reason behind ordering unpainted bumper ? @Appu , any guess.?

AFAIK, all new bumpers come unpainted. The painting is done by the dealer. This is the case for even Maruti.

My Manza is also AURA , but there is no metal part in the parcel tray , how come weilding is required ?

I think he is referring to the metal chassis on which the parcel tray sits.

Regarding speaker connection, that was gross. Maran should have asked the guys to fix it properly - unless the connectors of the speakers are broken, that is not the way to fix the wires. ( I know I would have...)

 

[Raja]

@ ERTIGA-ZMR

And

@MSN1

Have you both owned a tata car in the past ?

 

[MSN1]

Re: Tata Motor’s Cars – The Ultimate Reliability Survey

@ ERTIGA-ZMR

And

@MSN1

Have you both owned a tata car in the past ?

As said earlier never owned or driven one, my experience with tata sumo and indicab was 5 yrs as passenger and driver's shared their driving and maintance experiance with me