Repeated Case of Zero NCAP Crash Test Rating of Indian Cars

[kunal Singh]

Vareh vah...

Let me try and make a Fun List...

A (market) Leader is expected to PULL his people OUT of the Rut; NOT to bury them DEEP, and make money out of it (and send a big chunk of it abroad).

BTW, where did I read the lines "Becoming a part of a rotten society or NOT" is an individual's choice ???

Sir I agree that maruti is not perfect when it comes to providing safe cars I understand and it has faults as well but they are not going to equipp there budget cars with radar sensing tech if you so mean and as for lighter cars that is suzuki gloabal trend that's how there platforms are. The baleno is made in India and exported to Europe as well and they weigh the same as well it has more tech obviously but the main structure is same.
Let's me put up another instance maruti introduced the s-cross similar to the one in europe with no cost cutting in any area good built quality (weighs around 1250Kg same as ecosport) and a hoot to drive 1.6 engine but what was the end results the 1.6 could amass only 4 thousand sales in two years and hence discounted. The mass market isn't really concerned about safety (I know it is going to offend a lot but it is the truth) all they want is a good looking four wheeler which is easy on the pocket and has hassle free service but still maruti is providing options for airbags and ABS on most models.
I agree VW makes good solid car but every other day forums are flooded with the different frauds they do with people somewhere dealer is not paying road tax so car can't run on road because it lacks regestration somewhere full payement is made and car is not delivered and most important VW seems to be least bothered about it as if we don't matter atleast with maruti raising a issues causes strict action to be taken
P.s- I am no maruti fan or there defender I just feel one brand should not be held guilty for the wrong done by all.
And very humbly sir I may add that from your logic more than half of the car owning public has a rotten mind and yes we may also become a part of that rotten society since we are looking for a new car and s-cross is definitely in the talks.

 

[1989rs500]

Sir I agree that maruti is not perfect when it comes to providing safe cars I understand and it has faults as well but they are not going to equipp there budget cars with radar sensing tech if you so mean and as for lighter cars that is suzuki gloabal trend that's how there platforms are. The baleno is made in India and exported to Europe as well and they weigh the same as well it has more tech obviously but the main structure is same.
Let's me put up another instance maruti introduced the s-cross similar to the one in europe with no cost cutting in any area good built quality (weighs around 1250Kg same as ecosport) and a hoot to drive 1.6 engine but what was the end results the 1.6 could amass only 4 thousand sales in two years and hence discounted. The mass market isn't really concerned about safety (I know it is going to offend a lot but it is the truth) all they want is a good looking four wheeler which is easy on the pocket and has hassle free service but still maruti is providing options for airbags and ABS on most models.
I agree VW makes good solid car but every other day forums are flooded with the different frauds they do with people somewhere dealer is not paying road tax so car can't run on road because it lacks regestration somewhere full payement is made and car is not delivered and most important VW seems to be least bothered about it as if we don't matter atleast with maruti raising a issues causes strict action to be taken
P.s- I am no maruti fan or there defender I just feel one brand should not be held guilty for the wrong done by all.
And very humbly sir I may add that from your logic more than half of the car owning public has a rotten mind and yes we may also become a part of that rotten society since we are looking for a new car and s-cross is definitely in the talks.

Agree with you but just check how things work with other brands.
Do we find PSA,Renault,Dacia or any brand building unsafe cars for France?
Do we find Toyota,Honda,Nissan or any Japanese brand building unsafe cars for Japan?
Even Korean Hyundai,Kia never builds unsafe cars for Korea.

And here comes our country India with Maruti Suzuki, true its a huge partnership of Suzuki with MSUL, but why only unsafe cars for India.

See Maruti is the leader, when a leader sets an example everybody follows it, true Maruti would loose some sales if they incorporate safer built structure and airbags and ABS from base variants onwards. But the net effect is that there will be better competition and with time people will get used to this , see people will automatically reset their mind to buying cars with solid safety rating IF AND ONLY IF THR LEADER FOLLOWS this route.
Now when the leader despite harsh criticism from GNCAP etc still gives unsafe cars in sub 10 lakhs lakhsrange, even the competitors follow their path in desperation to get market share, hence the birth of Datsuns,Cheap Hyindais,Cheap Fords,Cheap Hondas etc..
We dont need active safety features like radar detection,autonomous braking,Bkind spot warning etc, but basic safety features like a safe structure and Abs and airbags would be more than suffecient, but Maruti still plays their game, and I still agree that some cars from Matuti are good , eg Ignis,Baleno,S cross, Ciaz, new Dzire these cars as per them are safe,but rest still are not and the rest is where the mass of MSIL is, and thats what makes the difference.

 

[kkn13]

Then name alternatives for the unsafe Marutis such as Alto 800,Wagon R, Celerio
Maybe Tiago is a safer car than the above but Kwid,Datsun ,Nano are also unsafe cars

As for Maruti Suzuki, they actually export the same Baleno in LHD form from India
https://www.nexaexperience.com/nexaworld-made-in-india-baleno-launched-in-japan.html

And no I dont blame Maruti Suzuki, while Alto 800, Celerio,Eeco and Wagon R are unsafe, theres no alternatives and the competition is lacking in other areas
If you cant make customers to buy your cars , theres something lacking

Thats why brands like Hyundai, Ford and even Jeep are popular despite years of stigma and maybe even Tata to an extent
Because they started to do something right but its still lacking somewhere but I believe these brands will get there if they continue at the same pace especially Hyundai

After looking at various brands and even stretching our budget, I still went with the Tucson and it paid off , they have got a lot right with the car and zero niggles

Honda has simply gone a bit amiss but I believe they are getting back on the right track with the comeback of the much loved all new version of the Civic platform which is when Honda had its golden period

No one is that herd mentality driven that they will be willing to buy a car that everyone else around them has

 

[vijay_968]

What we see on Indian Roads ? Pedestrians crossing roads while using Mobile Phone, Two wheelers carrying FULL Families, Two wheelers NOT driving within Bike Lane on NHs, slower vehicles firmly driving on the right most lane and what NOT ! ! ! These people rely on prayers and luck to return home safely. Their safety comes from others' concerns and they are used to it.

When THESE people later upgrade to a Car, they CARRY FORWARD THEIR VIEWS on Safety. They simply do NOT want to shell out extra bucks for safety. Should we then exonerate Leading Car Manufacturers for NOT providing Safer Cars ? Appears so, on the Macro. Reality is changing, though.

Not long ago, "Feature Phones" dominated Indian Mobile phone industry. Where is Nokia, Now ???? Later, a smart phone with 2GB RAM and decent chip set was a luxury. Enter Canvas range from Micromax, an Indian Company and Indians suddenly found better equipment for a lesser price. Enter Xiaomi and Indians got still better for still lesser. Today, Xiaomi leads Sammy in 50 major Cities across India. Where is Micromax, Now ???? Reduced to a small player.

You got where I am leading to ??? Indian Customers always wanted decent speced equipment, but at an affordable price and with assured Service. The way they ditched feature phones for smart phones, they are ready to pay more for Cars too. But, the Price and Service are the key.

The combined Nov-17 sales figures of Maruti's tin boxes (Omni, Alto, Eeco, Wag-R & Celerio) are 60,206 numbers and it is 53,598 numbers for Maruti's much better tin boxes (Swift, Dzire & Baleno). I am 100% sure, the later three are selling hot, manily because of the Engine Options and also because they are better in Safety as compared to the O/A/E/Wag-R/C Tin Boxes. THIS as a WELCOME shift from Indian Car buyers

Some day, a Suno-me Car Company will comes up with a Catch-Me series Car, with better Safety, Features, Performance and Service Centers. If India's time is bad, it would be a Chinese Company, sending profits back to China. Lot many Chinese do have Capital Budget for this to happen. If India's luck is GOOD, it would be Tata or Mahindra or Maruti.

Let's wait and see.

 

[kunal Singh]

Agree with you but just check how things work with other brands.
Do we find PSA,Renault,Dacia or any brand building unsafe cars for France?
Do we find Toyota,Honda,Nissan or any Japanese brand building unsafe cars for Japan?
Even Korean Hyundai,Kia never builds unsafe cars for Korea.

And here comes our country India with Maruti Suzuki, true its a huge partnership of Suzuki with MSUL, but why only unsafe cars for India.

See Maruti is the leader, when a leader sets an example everybody follows it, true Maruti would loose some sales if they incorporate safer built structure and airbags and ABS from base variants onwards. But the net effect is that there will be better competition and with time people will get used to this , see people will automatically reset their mind to buying cars with solid safety rating IF AND ONLY IF THR LEADER FOLLOWS this route.
Now when the leader despite harsh criticism from GNCAP etc still gives unsafe cars in sub 10 lakhs lakhsrange, even the competitors follow their path in desperation to get market share, hence the birth of Datsuns,Cheap Hyindais,Cheap Fords,Cheap Hondas etc..
We dont need active safety features like radar detection,autonomous braking,Bkind spot warning etc, but basic safety features like a safe structure and Abs and airbags would be more than suffecient, but Maruti still plays their game, and I still agree that some cars from Matuti are good , eg Ignis,Baleno,S cross, Ciaz, new Dzire these cars as per them are safe,but rest still are not and the rest is where the mass of MSIL is, and thats what makes the difference.

Sir I totally agree with your point the world is definitely moving towards safer car every day and as informed members we also want our country to move in that direction but the thing is sir we are still not ready for it (I know it hurts but it is the truth). I feel there are two major differences :-

1) India is still a developing country where the average salary of people is not as high as people of europe or other developed countries and they also need to save for other occasions most notably marriage (we spend the most in the world) and throughout his life if he saves enough he looks to buy a car which is a piece of luxury for him rather than a necessity and hence safety is really not a priority to him he wants good mileage low maintenance and peace of mind during his ownership .

2) Secondly I feel the government has to blamed here (even more so than manufacturers) they lieve heavy taxes during the car making process and during selling process as well which leaves manufacturers with little room to add the safety features and other features in there car (I still applaud ford for bringing active safety features in a sub 12 lakh car like ecosport) and then the BS NCAP seems to be getting postponed for next year every year hence it seems government also deliberately wants to continue with such sub-standard cars for our public.

A short note to all people appealing for safety features (myself included) how will we defend our case in a country where 70% people don't wear there seat belt to many even that is a accessory just hanging in the car.

 

[1989rs500]

Sir I totally agree with your point the world is definitely moving towards safer car every day and as informed members we also want our country to move in that direction but the thing is sir we are still not ready for it (I know it hurts but it is the truth). I feel there are two major differences :-

1) India is still a developing country where the average salary of people is not as high as people of europe or other developed countries and they also need to save for other occasions most notably marriage (we spend the most in the world) and throughout his life if he saves enough he looks to buy a car which is a piece of luxury for him rather than a necessity and hence safety is really not a priority to him he wants good mileage low maintenance and peace of mind during his ownership .

2) Secondly I feel the government has to blamed here (even more so than manufacturers) they lieve heavy taxes during the car making process and during selling process as well which leaves manufacturers with little room to add the safety features and other features in there car (I still applaud ford for bringing active safety features in a sub 12 lakh car like ecosport) and then the BS NCAP seems to be getting postponed for next year every year hence it seems government also deliberately wants to continue with such sub-standard cars for our public.

A short note to all people appealing for safety features (myself included) how will we defend our case in a country where 70% people don't wear there seat belt to many even that is a accessory just hanging in the car.

Yes I agree the Government is the biggest problem, but since the government is an issue lets give customers a product that has minimum safety , if this is the attitude a leader takes then the other brands too follow it, eg Hyundai,Honda,Ford,Datsun,Renault etc
Thats the issue, this not only reduces the whole quality of Indian market but also promotes wrong motoring ethics among other players except a few, And see what has happened to brands that stood with a firm stand on safety
VW/Skoda market failure
Toyota Etios/Liva market failure
Fiat market failure

So whats the inference , even those who wanted to sell some good safe cars will get punished hard in the process.

See Maruti is the pulse of Indian car market, they definitely can improve the situation here, and as long as they dont, even the competitors will go sub standard to find whop can make the best TIN CAN.

 

[vijay_968]

... So whats the inference , even those who wanted to sell some good safe cars will get punished hard in the process.

See Maruti is the pulse of Indian car market, they definitely can improve the situation here, and as long as they dont, even the competitors will go sub standard to find whop can make the best TIN CAN.

Your comment makes me think of Fiat and few other Car makers.

I will again run to the Smart Phone market for comparo. HTC always makes very good phones, but miss out a lot while pricing them in India. HTC SHOULD learn from OnePlus, if they do NOT want to wind up. THIS concept is applicable to Car makers too. As long as a Company THINKS that they can charge a PREMIUM just for their Badge and ignore the A$$ aspects, they get punished in Indian Market, by becoming "also rans".

You are more than 100% correct on "other makers following Maruti". But, what Maruti does ??? They wait for someone to create market for a segment, and then they come up with one copy-cat product after another. Grrrrrrrr.

But, I would continue to hope Maruti gives Safer Cars. Who knows .... someday, I might see "Airbags, ABS and Speed Limiters" even in Alto. Good for us.

 

[kkn13]

Your comment makes me think of Fiat and few other Car makers.

I will again run to the Smart Phone market for comparo. HTC always makes very good phones, but miss out a lot while pricing them in India. HTC SHOULD learn from OnePlus, if they do NOT want to wind up. THIS concept is applicable to Car makers too. As long as a Company THINKS that they can charge a PREMIUM just for their Badge and ignore the A$$ aspects, they get punished in Indian Market, by becoming "also rans".

You are more than 100% correct on "other makers following Maruti". But, what Maruti does ??? They wait for someone to create market for a segment, and then they come up with one copy-cat product after another. Grrrrrrrr.

But, I would continue to hope Maruti gives Safer Cars. Who knows .... someday, I might see "Airbags, ABS and Speed Limiters" even in Alto. Good for us.

This reference is spot on
Markets are very volatile
Theres no leader as such, anyone can come up and down if they arent cautious

 

[kunal Singh]

"Airbags, ABS[/I] and Speed Limiters" even in Alto. Good for us.

Sir If you look at maruti website yoy will see that both alto twins(800 and 1000) come with 1 airbag from base variants and from wagonr onwards you can get two airbags and abs from base variants itself maruti has definitely upped it's game because four years back when we bought are wagonr there was only one airbag (driver side) and abs and that too as an option on top variant only.
As for market for a segment I am unable to understand the grouse on that say tata introduced the compact sedan segment and others followed and now sedans have about 50% market share so if there would have been only one manufacturer you would have still been stuck with that dinosaur age indigo competition is always good more choices, better equipment and lower prices.

And see what has happened to brands that stood with a firm stand on safety
VW/Skoda market failure
Toyota Etios/Liva market failure
Fiat market failure

I will not attribute the failure of these brands/cars to safety rather I would say it is because of ignorance of these brands towards our people the polo and vento are very capable cars(polo gt being my favourite) along with fiat's punto and linea but the sales and service is such a horror that dealers have resorted to day light robbery the other day I read in another forum that a skoda dealer sold a regular version of octavia as black package edition by doing a sticker job such measures just don't give faith to people in putting there money on such brands where after spending loads of money you are unsure whether the product is real or fake and for Toyota they live in a different land how do you think the liva or etios compare hatchs and sedans from other companies just do a spec comparison and you'll know what I am saying.

 

[dr_vm]

In Autocar India website, in the news section there was an article about the 2018 model new swift scoring absymal two stars in GNCAP tests conducted recently.LiNK HERE: https://www.autocarindia.com/car-ne...es-two-stars-in-global-ncap-crash-test-409994
I commented in the comments section on how the vehicle is good to go to the gym and back alluding to their long term report of the same model , with not much as a word about build quality. Link here: https://www.autocarindia.com/car-lo...ki-swift-long-term-review-first-report-408537.
In a follow up comment, I also brought to their memory, Maruti Suzuki Chairman Mr. Bhargava's famous comment about how their cars pass all Indian crash test regulations.The comment did not pass the moderators scrutiny I guess, for it did not get posted on the website. I guess too much is at stake for these auto publications.
I remember picking up autocar india's first copy , the test drive of Ford Ikon , as a kid at school.
It is indeed sad to see that most of the reviews today are biased, and with so much reliance on ad revenue, how can you expect the publications to be unbiased.
By the way as per Autocar's own website, there are 16 fatal casualities and 53 injuries due to accidents per hour in our country.Link here: https://www.autocarindia.com/indust...-claim-more-than-14-lakh-lives-in-2017-410111
.Thats a shocking number of lives lost.
I hear the general question...why single out Maruti Suzuki??
My answer is their market share is phenominally high, the swift and dezire alone accounts for a huge bulk of the sales. They are the market leader, they are cash rich. And they are in a position to make a difference. Thats why..

Ofcourse all of us are to blame.
The greased palms of the RTO's who let novice immature not yet qualified drivers on the road,
The hand in glove driving school touts, who fill up the exam papers themselves,
The traffic policeman , who looks the other way when a government transport bus does not stop at a signal. After all what gain in stopping them.
Our own chalte hai attitude.. when we bow to our family members pressure to add that touch screen .
Its time safety takes a front seat, all buckled up.
I think an unbiased forum like Automotive india , can spread awareness about safety in a big way, may be bring out stickers that we can put on our cars or something of that sort. Your comments are welcome.

 

[vikyjoshi]

I think an unbiased forum like Automotive india , can spread awareness about safety in a big way, may be bring out stickers that we can put on our cars or something of that sort. Your comments are welcome.

That is a very good suggestion, may be we can come up brand specific sticker like:
"TIA-ger Driving 4 Star Safe Nexon"
"TIA-ger Driving 4 Star Safe Zest"
"TIA-ger Driving 4 Star Safe Brezza"

and So on.

 

[dr_vm]

That is a very good suggestion, may be we can come up brand specific sticker like:
"TIA-ger Driving 4 Star Safe Nexon"
"TIA-ger Driving 4 Star Safe Zest"
"TIA-ger Driving 4 Star Safe Brezza"

and So on.

That's a great idea. We need more automotive india stickers...bring it on.

 

[1989rs500]

In Autocar India website, in the news section there was an article about the 2018 model new swift scoring absymal two stars in GNCAP tests conducted recently.LiNK HERE: https://www.autocarindia.com/car-ne...es-two-stars-in-global-ncap-crash-test-409994
I commented in the comments section on how the vehicle is good to go to the gym and back alluding to their long term report of the same model , with not much as a word about build quality. Link here: https://www.autocarindia.com/car-lo...ki-swift-long-term-review-first-report-408537.
In a follow up comment, I also brought to their memory, Maruti Suzuki Chairman Mr. Bhargava's famous comment about how their cars pass all Indian crash test regulations.The comment did not pass the moderators scrutiny I guess, for it did not get posted on the website. I guess too much is at stake for these auto publications.
I remember picking up autocar india's first copy , the test drive of Ford Ikon , as a kid at school.
It is indeed sad to see that most of the reviews today are biased, and with so much reliance on ad revenue, how can you expect the publications to be unbiased.
By the way as per Autocar's own website, there are 16 fatal casualities and 53 injuries due to accidents per hour in our country.Link here: https://www.autocarindia.com/indust...-claim-more-than-14-lakh-lives-in-2017-410111
.Thats a shocking number of lives lost.
I hear the general question...why single out Maruti Suzuki??
My answer is their market share is phenominally high, the swift and dezire alone accounts for a huge bulk of the sales. They are the market leader, they are cash rich. And they are in a position to make a difference. Thats why..

Ofcourse all of us are to blame.
The greased palms of the RTO's who let novice immature not yet qualified drivers on the road,
The hand in glove driving school touts, who fill up the exam papers themselves,
The traffic policeman , who looks the other way when a government transport bus does not stop at a signal. After all what gain in stopping them.
Our own chalte hai attitude.. when we bow to our family members pressure to add that touch screen .
Its time safety takes a front seat, all buckled up.
I think an unbiased forum like Automotive india , can spread awareness about safety in a big way, may be bring out stickers that we can put on our cars or something of that sort. Your comments are welcome.

Well said, now I have seen some differences , check the reviews of Overdrive magazine and Zigwheels , some of them stress on the GNCAP scores , I feel this is a good start, but sad to to see the end consumer still not giving proper attention to safety and built quality while choosing cars.
I see a lot of people in forums etc crying for the lack of some fancy features like LED, DRLs, Projector headlamps, arm rests , biege interiors, etc in cars..but very few have asked for more airbags,seat belt pre tensioners, adjustable head rests for whiplash protection, and active and passive safety features, this is quiet contrary to how peoppe buy cars in Europr and USA and even China nowadays where its a mandatory norm that base variants of cars wil have most of safety features in them, higher variants add only a few super modern driver assistant technologies,
The new Toyota Vios sedan is easily one of the safest car but let down by pricing and most importantly government, see what I feel is Government should push some subsidy or favor for brands to promote safety, this sub 1500cc rule is a waste , sub 4m rule too making no sense., instead they should push for safer technologies and taxing cars based on COx and NOx emission,
The 2 star Maruri Swift/Baleno/Ignis,/Dzire contribute around 70-75k cars sales per month, or around 55% of overall car market share, and this like said before will make people who are safety concious point finger at this brand,
Also one should understand that if the leader shows the wrong way the plebians will follow, thats a common phenomenon, when market leader doaent care about safety the buyers too wont, so there must be significant change in attitude from market leaders as well as Government.
Government being the one thats more responsible for the same.

 

[Nairrk]

Agree to @dr_vm & @1989rs500

If people started insisting on safety features or cars which have got 4 or 5 star NCAP ratings etc, then the first loser will be Maruti (sorry, no intention to demoralise Maruti car owners) as no one will then go for their Altos and other cars which do not have any security features.

But, I have seen not many are least bothered about these security features instead they are happy if they get a vehicle at a lesser rate. As such, unless government makes NCAP rating is a must for all cars, then knowingly or unknowingly people are compelled to go for such cars and maybe we can reduce few numbers of accidents, at least.

 

[1989rs500]

Another sorry fact is that, fossil fueled cars are dying and we Indians have missed a very large portion of fun and thrill of sporty cars, all sporty cars have failed in India, Palio,Punto,Fiesta,Figo S, Polo GTi, GT TSi,Gt TDI all have been market failures even Marutis Baleno RS sells short of the required numbers,
Add to it safety too has taken back seat ,means India despite being a superb nation havent been able to enjoy motoring rather scrutinize it in name of casulities and issues.
Now its hardly 10 years before we see an arguably boring silent motoring world. Till then if these issues persist we will be seeing mororing as a potential danger and rather forget its beauty and how good it would have been if brands and governments worked together to lower unwanted taxes, up safety ratings , thereby introducing to consumer better and safe but enjoyable motoring.