Repeated Case of Zero NCAP Crash Test Rating of Indian Cars

[hotshot05]

In Autocar India website, in the news section there was an article about the 2018 model new swift scoring absymal two stars in GNCAP tests conducted recently.LiNK HERE: https://www.autocarindia.com/car-ne...es-two-stars-in-global-ncap-crash-test-409994
I commented in the comments section on how the vehicle is good to go to the gym and back alluding to their long term report of the same model , with not much as a word about build quality. Link here: https://www.autocarindia.com/car-lo...ki-swift-long-term-review-first-report-408537.
In a follow up comment, I also brought to their memory, Maruti Suzuki Chairman Mr. Bhargava's famous comment about how their cars pass all Indian crash test regulations.The comment did not pass the moderators scrutiny I guess, for it did not get posted on the website. I guess too much is at stake for these auto publications.
I remember picking up autocar india's first copy , the test drive of Ford Ikon , as a kid at school.

2 star means that it has passed the crash test!
So Mr. Bhargava has not been proved wrong in any way. Also GNCAP tests at 64Km/hr whereas Indian regulations will test at 56 Km/hr. So body structure may still be stable at that speed.

P.S - I hate Maruti for their tin cans. I want the car to be as safe as possible. But I just wanted to point out that your statement is slightly incorrect.

Agree to @dr_vm & @1989rs500

If people started insisting on safety features or cars which have got 4 or 5 star NCAP ratings etc, then the first loser will be Maruti (sorry, no intention to demoralise Maruti car owners) as no one will then go for their Altos and other cars which do not have any security features.

But, I have seen not many are least bothered about these security features instead they are happy if they get a vehicle at a lesser rate. As such, unless government makes NCAP rating is a must for all cars, then knowingly or unknowingly people are compelled to go for such cars and maybe we can reduce few numbers of accidents, at least.

I fear that even if Indian NCAP is made mandatory, if the testing authority does not release star rating and video like GNCAP or Latin NCAP, the whole process will become worthless.
If they just paste a sticker on windshield (like the pollution certificate), stating that the car has passed the Indian NCAP, it will not serve any purpose.
Does anyone know if Euro NCAP releases detailed rating of all cars that they test? It is mandatory for all cars sold in Europe. But do they disclose the detailed rating?

 

[adivik]

Eurocap publishes all data on its tests and videos are available, only thing it has a few tests which are totally irrelevant for India like radar assisted automatic braking, lane change assist etc. If equipped in Indian cars they will contantly braking.

Ideally BSNCAP and GNCAP for Indian cars should

1) Full Frontal and 40%, 20% Offset tests done at 64km

2) Side impact and Pole tests

3) Whiplash tests and Pedestrian saftey test.

If I am right BSNCAP from Oct 19 has only test 1 done at 56km and GNCAP of Indian models is done for 1 above, we still dont know how a say Brezza will perform in side impact or pole tests or whiplash tests.

MY wishlist for the for following:-

1) the above 4 tests should be performed at 64km.

2) Any car with a Ex showroom price above 7.5 lac rupees must be minimum 3 star rated and have body shell as stable, this is to ensure that those progressing from 2 wheeler to 4 wheeler or not impacted by putting cars out of thier budget.

3) GST Luxury cess rates for <4m whould be extended to 4.15 meters if a car has its body shell rated as stable and pass with atleast 4 stars in above 4 safety tests.

 

[Akash1886]

2 star means that it has passed the crash test!
So Mr. Bhargava has not been proved wrong in any way.

After the Brezza's 4 star rating, hopes were high even of GNCAP folks about the present gen Swift in India and same ways, we enthusiasts were too hoping that MSIL would have improved but the 2 star ratings reinstates that old habits don't go away easily. The 2 stars were because of the Airbags, so, if those weren't offered, the ratings would have been same as earlier gen Swift because even now the structure of the new Swift is unstable.

As a off-topic example: Getting passing marks in the examination is a big deal for a student who perhaps had failed in earlier attempt. But, The right thing would be to compete against the distinction holders.

Also GNCAP tests at 64Km/hr whereas Indian regulations will test at 56 Km/hr. So body structure may still be stable at that speed.

The MS Brezza was tested at same speed in GNCAP and came out with good ratings. The question is why MSIL is discriminating among 2 cars of their own stable in present? If Made in India Brezza can score well in safety then why not the Swift? What stops them from ensuring the public that irrespective of which model one buys, all their cars presently are meeting the desired crash test norms?

P.S - I hate Maruti for their tin cans. I want the car to be as safe as possible.

Absolutely.

Regards

Akash

 

[dr_vm]

2 star means that it has passed the crash test!
So Mr. Bhargava has not been proved wrong in any way. Also GNCAP tests at 64Km/hr whereas Indian regulations will test at 56 Km/hr. So body structure may still be stable at that speed.

P.S - I hate Maruti for their tin cans. I want the car to be as safe as possible. But I just wanted to point out that your statement is slightly incorrect.

That statement was made I think a year or so back and therefore was not in the context of this particular crash test of the swift.
With all due respect, He could afford to do that because of no real clarity with respect to crash tests or may I use the word "weak" indian crash test regulations at that time.
The company headed by him could and can sell bread boxes and tin cans without breaking any laws.
This heady success prompted other manufacturers namely Renault Nissan to actually design and manufacture an unstable car in this day and age.
My humble opinion to such manufacturers is: The human anatomy largely remains the same.. irrespective of continental diversities and the least you could provide us while taking back our hard earned currencies is value our lives as well.
Thank you car manufacturers in advance.

 

[TAUREAN CZAR]

After the Brezza's 4 star rating, hopes were high even of GNCAP folks about the present gen Swift in India and same ways, we enthusiasts were too hoping that MSIL would have improved but the 2 star ratings reinstates that old habits don't go away easily. The 2 stars were because of the Airbags, so, if those weren't offered, the ratings would have been same as earlier gen Swift because even now the structure of the new Swift is unstable.

As a off-topic example: Getting passing marks in the examination is a big deal for a student who perhaps had failed in earlier attempt. But, The right thing would be to compete against the distinction holders.

The MS Brezza was tested at same speed in GNCAP and came out with good ratings. The question is why MSIL is discriminating among 2 cars of their own stable in present? If Made in India Brezza can score well in safety then why not the Swift? What stops them from ensuring the public that irrespective of which model one buys, all their cars presently are meeting the desired crash test norms?

Absolutely.

Regards

Akash

Maruti makes both cars Swift and Breeza and also including Dezire, IGNIS and Baleno from the same platform. So why is it that the structural stability not same for all the cars?

 

[Akash1886]

Maruti makes both cars Swift and Breeza and also including Dezire, IGNIS and Baleno from the same platform. So why is it that the structural stability not same for all the cars?

Well, if I am correct, the Brezza and Baleno have different platforms. The Heartec Platform came in with the Baleno and new Swift & Dzire are also based on the same. As per MSIL, Brezza is the 1st vehicle to confirm off-set crash norms. The heartec platform is lightweight but is said to use high-tensile steel. It is more of performance oriented platform and MSIL is just concerned for giving fuel efficient engines even if it comes at cost of below par build quality. Right now, we have just come to know of the Swift's crash test so let us also wait for the results of the India made Dzire.

Regards

Akash

 

[F4frewin]

The heartec platform is lightweight but is said to use high-tensile steel. It is more of performance oriented platform and MSIL is just concerned for giving fuel efficient engines even if it comes at cost of below par build quality. Right now, we have just come to know of the Swift's crash test so let us also wait for the results of the India made Dzire.

Regards

Akash

Hi Akash, I guess there is no material proof available or illustration on where High tensile steel and what grade are used. It's just that the MSIL and their dealers speak about it and sadly there is a strong opinion infested into the customers that 'light is strong' on MSIL cars and that can be even read about in many online forums. The word HEARTEC itself has been made to believe by MSIL that it is safer and stronger.

I differ on the belief that Heartec is performance oriented it's just that the cars are so light and can move faster. The one thing MSIL does so well is in tuning of their gearboxes to match the engine for Indian conditions. They have some fine and efficient petrol engines and that's what make them tick.


D'zire would be no different from Swift in terms of safety as both are one and same and it hardly matters to people buying India's most wanted CS. With consumers turning blind eye to safety, most manufacturers are benchmarking MSIL on various criteria when developing and pricing new products. Hondas, Fords and Toyotas in sub 10 lakh category have started feeling like MSIL cars with the new launches in recent years. The car market in itself has started revolving around MSIL cars and most global makers in India have lost their identity!

 

[adivik]

Just thinking, rather than blame manufacturers, lets take Maruti, the pre face lift Scross as per international variants, Market declared it as over priced, now enter the Facelift , low priced but as noted in various forums poorer in build quality but sells 4K units.

SO anyone working in Maruti strongly advocating a well built car has probably has had his carreer terminated with the company and those in favour of VFM priced, high mileage light cars are progressing.

Somewhere customer has to understand that there is a trade off between Safe , lightweight and VFM. You can have 2 of the 3.

But people feel they can never get into an accident so a thin tyred but lower cost car is better for them. For me its not worth saving 50K on purchase, 50 K higher resale, 100K fuel cost with safety. The related car accident repair costs, medical costs and possibility of losing your life or limb is not worth it.

 

[Akash1886]

I guess there is no material proof available or illustration on where High tensile steel and what grade are used. It's just that the MSIL and their dealers speak about it and sadly there is a strong opinion infested into the customers that 'light is strong' on MSIL cars and that can be even read about in many online forums. The word HEARTEC itself has been made to believe by MSIL that it is safer and stronger.

Bro, perhaps you couldn't make out the sarcasm in between I don't trust the claims of MSIL either. If you may have read in one of my posts [here) you'll see that upfront I doubted the use of the high tensile steel used in the Heartec platform. Dealers are told to follow what brand says so we can't expect much from them.

I differ on the belief that Heartec is performance oriented it's just that the cars are so light and can move faster. The one thing MSIL does so well is in tuning of their gearboxes to match the engine for Indian conditions. They have some fine and efficient petrol engines and that's what make them tick.

I agree, Fuel Efficient engines and a unbelievable FE Figures excite the buyers at large. I don't agree too that performance should come at the cost of safety. I just mentioned as to what the MSIL has to say about the Heartec platform.

D'zire would be no different from Swift in terms of safety as both are one and same and it hardly matters to people buying India's most wanted CS.

Absolutely. 100% agree. My point was, even after prior failures MSIL never really understood or rectified the core reason of Swift's failure. I sarcastically said, till now we know the crash test rating of Swift, let us also wait for the ratings of Dzire.

With consumers turning blind eye to safety, most manufacturers are benchmarking MSIL on various criteria when developing and pricing new products. Hondas, Fords and Toyotas in sub 10 lakh category have started feeling like MSIL cars with the new launches in recent years.

I 2nd you but I feel TML's Tigor, Tiago feel far better in terms of build quality. Infact the Nexon got 4 stars in GNCAP. TML hasn't stoop to compete with the MSIL atleast in terms of safety and build quality. I think you have a FORD car, just compare your car with the likes of Ignis & Swift. I am sure FORD's car will be having a better feel in every aspect in comparison to the India made MSIL Swift and Ignis. To me the 2 saving grace of MSIL are Brezza and S-Cross.

The car market in itself has started revolving around MSIL cars and most global makers in India have lost their identity!

I don't think so. Everyone is trying their level best to compete. The only reason why MSIL has highest market share is due to availability of spares and a vast service network. Otherwise, be it Hyundai, TML, Toyota, Ford, Mahindra etc none are lagging behind. Apart from this, as you may have seen the JD Power survey thread, it is no longer the case that the youth or 1st time buyers still "come home in a Maruti".

To conclude, I would be brutally honest of my own-self; It is very very difficult for me to praise MSIL as far as safety is concerned. Except for Brezza being a one-off I yet to find a hatchback of MSIL that is made in India and gets a 4 star safety rating. I am not a blind believer in MSIL's claims.

Regards

Akash

 

[Tornado]

Mefeels, time has come for TAI or other car websites to mention sales figures of the cars as per the GNCAP ratings in their sales figures threads

 

[1989rs500]

Mefeels, time has come for TAI or other car websites to mention sales figures of the cars as per the GNCAP ratings in their sales figures threads

That will be a disaster to read,
So we better buy or help others choose car wisely, thats the best thing we can do

 

[Akash1886]

Mention of crash ratings is a valid idea but couple of things are there with which this won't help:

1) Most India made models yet to be tested across the brands.

2) Buyers to first be informed and educated about the importance of crash test ratings.

3) Even after being educated it is yet to be seen what impact would it really have on sales numbers Mom & YoY.

4) Will the buyers really consider the safety ratings in the buying decision is the biggest question.

5) Will the buyers be willing to spend 50k to 1 L on a car with proven crash safety ratings is another important question for a market like ours.

Regards

Akash

 

[1989rs500]

Mention of crash ratings is a valid idea but couple of things are there with which this won't help:

1) Most India made models yet to be tested across the brands.

2) Buyers to first be informed and educated about the importance of crash test ratings.

3) Even after being educated it is yet to be seen what impact would it really have on sales numbers Mom & YoY.

4) Will the buyers really consider the safety ratings in the buying decision is the biggest question.

5) Will the buyers be willing to spend 50k to 1 L on a car with proven crash safety ratings is another important question for a market like ours.

Regards

Akash

The Government can do one thing.
Add GNCAP/ BSNCAP , safety etc as a mandatory field while licence test is done
I feel this is one of the best things government can do and implement it for one year to see the difference.

 

[Nairrk]

Government can do, if they want to.

They are strictly implementing BS-VI norms from 1st April 2020, as such, they should also insist all manufacturers to adhere security features strictly on cars manufactured/ marketed in India. Cars without minimum security features will not be allowed to register.

But the question is -will government force the manufacturers like MSIL?

 

[adivik]

I think there should be price limits, as bad as Alto's, WagonR, Santro's, Kwid are, they are better from satey aspect than people takign risks with family in 2 Wheelers and Auto's. Insisting strict safety norms in these will make pricer and the usual many people will resort to travelling with families on Highways in 2 wheeler.

So I suggest any car with ex showroom price of more than 7.5 Lakhs Rupees should be mandatorily rated 3 stars with full frontal, frontal 40% Offset done at 64KM, side impact, Pole and whiplash tests done and Body structure should be rated as stable.