Mineral or Synthetic Oil?

[jarpickle]

Re: Maruti Suzuki Ertiga ZDi Bought: Ownership Review

The manual doesn't have mineral oil listed.It says 5w30 for petrol and 5w40 for diesel.

Where did you change the oil from?If it's from a M.A.S.S save the bill.Incase of a warranty claim it will be needed.

I had asked M.A.S.S if they would use an oil I supplied and they refused.They said it is against policy and if the oil is not issued from their supplies they will not endorse it in the service book.This causes problems in case of warranty claims.

What oil are you using?

Mineral oil does make the engine smoother since it is a bit thicker.

You will have to flush the engine before shifting back to synthetic.

Why don't you change the mineral oil every 5000kms like you have planned and then shift to synthetic at 20000kms after an engine flush.

I have always changed the mineral oil and semi synthetic oil in the 800 every 5000kms/1 year.

Our Ertiga has fresh 5w30 in it after the first 1000kms.

Its better if you don't stretch the mineral oil mileage to 10000kms.It will have lost all its qualities, if it is semi synthetic it would be ok.

 

[TAIDhana]

Re: Maruti Suzuki Ertiga ZDi Bought: Ownership Review

The manual doesn't have mineral oil listed.It says 5w30 for petrol and 5w40 for diesel. Where did you change the oil from?If it's from a M.A.S.S save the bill.Incase of a warranty claim it will be needed. I had asked M.A.S.S if they would use an oil I supplied and they refused. They said it is against policy and if the oil is not issued from their supplies they will not endorse it in the service book. This causes problems in case of warranty claims. What oil are you using? Mineral oil does make the engine smoother since it is a bit thicker.

IMO, 5w30 & 5w40 just mean temperature range 5C (Low) & 40C (High) in which vehicle is operated. Also, regular oil which is used by wide varieties of cars is mineral oil and it was done MASS, hence no warranty issues as such.

You will have to flush the engine before shifting back to synthetic.

Yup. Will keep that in mind..

Why don't you change the mineral oil every 5000kms like you have planned and then shift to synthetic at 20000kms after an engine flush.

Since I anyways took car for 5,000kms service I requested for oil change - also considering this is first 5,000kms and oil change will remove all the burs and finer metal removed by friction. But going forward I plan to stick to 10,000kms interval for oil change. Though I was following 5k interval for earlier car (800 & Indica), my previous car (Verna CRDI) was always serviced in 10k intervals. It did 110k without any fuss. So most likely will stick to 10,000 service and oil interval for Ertiga too..

Its better if you don't stretch the mineral oil mileage to 10000kms.It will have lost all its qualities, if it is semi synthetic it would be ok.

All cars (Swift, Dzire, Qualis, Innova) in our family & extended family are serviced only 10k intervals and use regular oil only. But I am considering switch to semi-synthetic or fully-synthetic oil for better mileage, longevity of engine life and driving experience.

 

[rafian]

Re: Maruti Suzuki Ertiga ZDi Bought: Ownership Review

Before spending a bomb on synthetic oils do understand that mineral oils pose a problem only when they break down. And they break down only under extreme pressure and temperatures OR after about 16 months of serving in an engine. Check the temperature in the areas where you'll be driving your car. If you think your car could face desert heat or you plan to take it to the race track (regardless of the weather conditions), then consider using synthetics.

- Longevity of engine that uses synthetic oil (vs mineral oil) is not proved under normal driving and normal temperatures
- Enhanced driving experience is not proved in normal driving using synthetic oil
- It is not proved that synthetics offer better mileage that is measurable repeatedly. You get better mileage by driving a bit sedately and maintaining optimum speed as much as possible.
- Synthetic oils have a tendency to leak. Take expert opinion when you pick the grade.
- Even today, many auto makers would void the car's warranty if you switch to Synthetic oil. So get an official answer (don't go by casual chats with the mechanic or service advisor) from the service center.

Ask yourself 3 questions:
- Am I going to be driving in extreme weather conditions?
- Am I going to be driving at very high speeds (don't quote 120km/hr, that's not fast)
- Am I going to change the oil only once in 2 years / 20K kms?

If the answer to any of the questions is "YES", then consider switching to synthetics.

If you're a business man, there are two ways to look at the investment one would make on using Synthetic oil.
- Ask yourself how long you plan to keep the car or roughly how many kms you plan to drive before buying your next car. If you plan to sell your car after driving about 80K or less, then I am not sure if it's worth spending so much on synthetic oil every year. You are basically doing a favor to the next owner of your car. I am not being mean - the point is the buyer of the car will not compensate for all the great things you've done to the engine of the your car. In fact, chances are the buyer has no clue what synthetic oil is. When I sold my 1996 camry with fully synthetically maintained engine, it did not fetch an extra penny for the investment I had made on the engine.

- Ask yourself if it would make more sense to invest on some goodies (or upgrades) in the car like GPS, Fog lights, better ICE, etc., instead of investing in synthetic oil. This might be termed as tangible value add that could be utilized (and some can be enjoyed) as part of the ownership experience. OR how about repainting the whole car after 5 years. The money you saved on synthetic oil could cover a chunk of that cost. At the end of the day, I would like to have a car that is in good shape overall, and not just the parts inside the engine.

Closing comment: Synthetic oil in the engine brings you that "feel good" thingy about your car. You feel your engine is cleaner, faster, better, quieter, bit more powerful, etc., Very good feeling! And I like that.

 

[TAIDhana]

Re: Maruti Suzuki Ertiga ZDi Bought: Ownership Review

Before spending a bomb on synthetic oils do understand that mineral oils pose a problem only when they break down. And they break down only under extreme pressure and temperatures OR after about 16 months of serving in an engine. Check the temperature in the areas where you'll be driving your car. If you think your car could face desert heat or you plan to take it to the race track (regardless of the weather conditions), then consider using synthetics.

- Longevity of engine that uses synthetic oil (vs mineral oil) is not proved under normal driving and normal temperatures
- Enhanced driving experience is not proved in normal driving using synthetic oil
- It is not proved that synthetics offer better mileage that is measurable repeatedly. You get better mileage by driving a bit sedately and maintaining optimum speed as much as possible.
- Synthetic oils have a tendency to leak. Take expert opinion when you pick the grade.
- Even today, many auto makers would void the car's warranty if you switch to Synthetic oil. So get an official answer (don't go by casual chats with the mechanic or service advisor) from the service center.

Ask yourself 3 questions:
- Am I going to be driving in extreme weather conditions?
- Am I going to be driving at very high speeds (don't quote 120km/hr, that's not fast)
- Am I going to change the oil only once in 2 years / 20K kms?

If the answer to any of the questions is "YES", then consider switching to synthetics.

If you're a business man, there are two ways to look at the investment one would make on using Synthetic oil.
- Ask yourself how long you plan to keep the car or roughly how many kms you plan to drive before buying your next car. If you plan to sell your car after driving about 80K or less, then I am not sure if it's worth spending so much on synthetic oil every year. You are basically doing a favor to the next owner of your car. I am not being mean - the point is the buyer of the car will not compensate for all the great things you've done to the engine of the your car. In fact, chances are the buyer has no clue what synthetic oil is. When I sold my 1996 camry with fully synthetically maintained engine, it did not fetch an extra penny for the investment I had made on the engine.

- Ask yourself if it would make more sense to invest on some goodies (or upgrades) in the car like GPS, Fog lights, better ICE, etc., instead of investing in synthetic oil. This might be termed as tangible value add that could be utilized (and some can be enjoyed) as part of the ownership experience. OR how about repainting the whole car after 5 years. The money you saved on synthetic oil could cover a chunk of that cost. At the end of the day, I would like to have a car that is in good shape overall, and not just the parts inside the engine.

Closing comment: Synthetic oil in the engine brings you that "feel good" thingy about your car. You feel your engine is cleaner, faster, better, quieter, bit more powerful, etc., Very good feeling! And I like that.

Thank you for elaborate response. As you would have also guessed, I am not going to use the car any of the extreme conditions. I like your closing comment & it is more of feel good thing I guess.

 

[manj]

Re: Maruti Suzuki Ertiga ZDi Bought: Ownership Review

very well written rafian
thanks a lot

 

[Nadkarni]

Re: Maruti Suzuki Ertiga ZDi Bought: Ownership Review

Before spending a bomb on synthetic oils do understand that mineral oils pose a problem only when they break down. And they break down only under extreme pressure and temperatures OR after about 16 months of serving in an engine. Check the temperature in the areas where you'll be driving your car. If you think your car could face desert heat or you plan to take it to the race track (regardless of the weather conditions), then consider using synthetics.

- Longevity of engine that uses synthetic oil (vs mineral oil) is not proved under normal driving and normal temperatures
- Enhanced driving experience is not proved in normal driving using synthetic oil
- It is not proved that synthetics offer better mileage that is measurable repeatedly. You get better mileage by driving a bit sedately and maintaining optimum speed as much as possible.
- Synthetic oils have a tendency to leak. Take expert opinion when you pick the grade.
- Even today, many auto makers would void the car's warranty if you switch to Synthetic oil. So get an official answer (don't go by casual chats with the mechanic or service advisor) from the service center.

Ask yourself 3 questions:
- Am I going to be driving in extreme weather conditions?
- Am I going to be driving at very high speeds (don't quote 120km/hr, that's not fast)
- Am I going to change the oil only once in 2 years / 20K kms?

If the answer to any of the questions is "YES", then consider switching to synthetics.

If you're a business man, there are two ways to look at the investment one would make on using Synthetic oil.
- Ask yourself how long you plan to keep the car or roughly how many kms you plan to drive before buying your next car. If you plan to sell your car after driving about 80K or less, then I am not sure if it's worth spending so much on synthetic oil every year. You are basically doing a favor to the next owner of your car. I am not being mean - the point is the buyer of the car will not compensate for all the great things you've done to the engine of the your car. In fact, chances are the buyer has no clue what synthetic oil is. When I sold my 1996 camry with fully synthetically maintained engine, it did not fetch an extra penny for the investment I had made on the engine.

- Ask yourself if it would make more sense to invest on some goodies (or upgrades) in the car like GPS, Fog lights, better ICE, etc., instead of investing in synthetic oil. This might be termed as tangible value add that could be utilized (and some can be enjoyed) as part of the ownership experience. OR how about repainting the whole car after 5 years. The money you saved on synthetic oil could cover a chunk of that cost. At the end of the day, I would like to have a car that is in good shape overall, and not just the parts inside the engine.

Closing comment: Synthetic oil in the engine brings you that "feel good" thingy about your car. You feel your engine is cleaner, faster, better, quieter, bit more powerful, etc., Very good feeling! And I like that.

Thanks Rafian. very useful and interesting facts explained.

 

[jarpickle]

Re: Maruti Suzuki Ertiga ZDi Bought: Ownership Review

Rafian:The oil mentioned in the manual is what the M.A.S.S use.As per the manual the oil mentioned is 5w30 for petrol and 5w40 for diesel.These are fully synthetic oils.

I wanted to use a different oil 15w40 to be specific.But the M.A.S.S(Spectra) would not change to that oil.They said if I insisted they would use that oil but would not endorse it in the service book.Oil changes need to be endorsed in the service book else in case of engine failure the company will not entertain it and you need the bills to prove this as well.It is mentioned in the warranty.

Your write up about mineral and synthetic oils is good.Its meant for lazy people who forget to service their cars on time or who used the cars extensively on a daily basis.It makes more sense for Taxi operators.But I am not asking anyone to go for synthetic against their will.I am simply asking them to go by what the owner manual says or get the oil change endorsed by the M.A.S.S in the service handbook and save the bills.

TAIDhana:I think apart from me you are the only other person who believes in oil changes after the initial break in period.Which absolutely makes sense.

 

[Harikomma]

Re: Maruti Suzuki Ertiga ZDi Bought: Ownership Review

In my opinion using synthetic oil in your beloved car is worth every penny. Please be noted it is just 3 to 3.5 L of Synthetic oil that is needed for Ertiga diesel engine. During my 3rd service cost of the Mobil 1 synthetic oil billed was Rs.3316 (3.1L). Hardly there will be a difference of Rs. 2000 or so if you choose to opt for mineral oil which is needed to be replaced every 5000 KM.
I felt the engine got smoother after shifting to synthetic oil.

Hope this helps in deciding for the choice of engine oil.

 

[ERTIGA_ZMR]

Re: Maruti Suzuki Ertiga ZDi Bought: Ownership Review

I had a discussion with Service Engineer or Superior at Suraksha Car Care Bangalore. He advised to add synthetic oil as these days engines are more compact and the gap between the moving parts are very marginal.Synthetic oil can travel efficiently when compared with mineral oils.

Even though it's expensive but I feel it is worth for it's price.

 

[Lewisavinash]

Re: Maruti Suzuki Ertiga ZDi Bought: Ownership Review

@Harikomma, I have a New Swift Zdi, Im sure both these cars have same engine, i use Mobil Delvac 1300/1400 mineral oil, The oil change Interval for this oil is 10000-15000 kms, No point in pouring costly Synthtic oil and running the engine on it for 20000 kms till the oil is like grease, I would suggest to use Mineral oil and increase frequency of oil change, that would keep the engine healthy

 

[jarpickle]

Re: Maruti Suzuki Ertiga ZDi Bought: Ownership Review

In my opinion using synthetic oil in your beloved car is worth every penny. Please be noted it is just 3 to 3.5 L of Synthetic oil that is needed for Ertiga diesel engine. During my 3rd service cost of the Mobil 1 synthetic oil billed was Rs.3316 (3.1L). Hardly there will be a difference of Rs. 2000 or so if you choose to opt for mineral oil which is needed to be replaced every 5000 KM.
I felt the engine got smoother after shifting to synthetic oil.

Hope this helps in deciding for the choice of engine oil.

@Harikomma, I have a New Swift Zdi, Im sure both these cars have same engine, i use Mobil Delvac 1300/1400 mineral oil, The oil change Interval for this oil is 10000-15000 kms, No point in pouring costly Synthtic oil and running the engine on it for 20000 kms till the oil is like grease, I would suggest to use Mineral oil and increase frequency of oil change, that would keep the engine healthy

There is a misconception about minerals and synthetic oils.Hari the 5000kms oil change is not necessary,but cars do love new oil.People have used them for 10000-15000kms.But the oil change depends on how much time it takes for the oil to break down.If the car feels sluggish and you have driven it on a daily basis for 100+kms then the oil needs to be changed and in high mileage driving synthetic makes more sense since it takes longer to break down and its moisture absorption is less.Most oil makers list the kms that the oil can sustain in an engine and sometimes also the kind of use it was intended for.Most oils need to be changed every year as the last only 12 months inside the engine.

5w30 is not really needed for people in lower half of India.But Maruti has used and has stated the oil for the Ertiga to be 5w30 for petrol and 5w40 for diesel.Till you are in the warranty period follow this or get the oil of your preference changed at the M.A.S.S and get it endorsed in the service handbook and save the receipts.

 

[webinav]

Re: Maruti Suzuki Ertiga ZDi Bought: Ownership Review

5w30 is not really needed for people in lower half of India.But Maruti has used and has stated the oil for the Ertiga to be 5w30 for petrol and 5w40 for diesel.Till you are in the warranty period follow this or get the oil of your preference changed at the M.A.S.S and get it endorsed in the service handbook and save the receipts.

Interesting discussion going on. I too believe that choice of synthetic or mineral should be choice given to the individual. Mineral oils can safely run for 9K+ kms before turning dark.

Now my question is does maruti recommend oil change during 1K service ?
I ll leave my car for 1K service shortly and am planning to add mineral oil and decide about synthetic or mineral at 10K.

Also the Mobil1 for 3K isnt that semi synthetic oil ? or is it fully synthetic ? 3.5K is bit cheap for fully synthetic oil i felt.

Also is Maruti saying officially that if we switch to synthetic, we need not change oil for 20000kms ? or only alternate services ?

 

[K!NkY]

Re: Maruti Suzuki Ertiga ZDi Bought: Ownership Review

Interesting discussion going on. I too believe that choice of synthetic or mineral should be choice given to the individual. Mineral oils can safely run for 9K+ kms before turning dark.

Now my question is does maruti recommend oil change during 1K service ?
I ll leave my car for 1K service shortly and am planning to add mineral oil and decide about synthetic or mineral at 10K.

Also the Mobil1 for 3K isnt that semi synthetic oil ? or is it fully synthetic ? 3.5K is bit cheap for fully synthetic oil i felt.

Also is Maruti saying officially that if we switch to synthetic, we need not change oil for 20000kms ? or only alternate services ?

I would say the manufacturer know better what oil they should use for their product. So I will leave that to MASS.

 

[jarpickle]

Re: Maruti Suzuki Ertiga ZDi Bought: Ownership Review

No Maruti doesn't do the oil change after 1000 kms.I have paid for the oil change.

Semi synthetic 3.5 liters 15w40 from shell cots around Rs900.Mobil 1 full synthetic costs Rs1000/liter.

The oil change intervals mentioned in the manual are based on the 5w30 fully synthetic oil for petrol and 5w40 fully synthetic for diesel.

 

[Aromal]

As per current trends manufacturers are moving for thinner oils for better efficiency. In our kind of dusty conditions the chances of lubrication by the formation of filim (Thin filim lubrication) is questionable. The dust particle can break the formation of thin filims between moving parts, the leakage tendency of oil is also more.
I would like to see discussions in that topic as well, especially considering synthetics are thinner oils .