Maruti Suzuki's New Sedan: Ciaz (Codenamed YL1)

[raag73]

Good to see a lot of discussion on Ciaz, this is the strength of any forum!

I researched for full ONE year to buy a C2 segment car with a good budget, I test drove almost all the C2 segment cars, went to each showroom multiple times to have a feel, studied their features & complaints etc. Finally I took a decision to buy White Ciaz ZXi (AT). With each passing day, I am more and more happy at my decision and loving the car (It's over a month).

Brand does matter but it should keep on holding that value and new brands keep on appearing & adding values. It is always better to go to showroom and test drive/feel the cars before any opinion.

And, I think Ciaz is a C2.5 segment car.

 

[AutoRock]

Voila!!! It’s turning out to be a warzone here! Guys, everybody has own opinion but let’s not try to push it as a default choice for others. Remember, one man’s meat could be other man’s poison!

Now, 2 cents from my side: To be honest, there is nothing like a perfect car in any of the segment. Some cars will ride & handle well, but will not offer required space & features, and there can be several combinations vice versa!
Depending upon my personal experience & from whatever I read & learned over these years in multiple forums, here are my personal feedbacks on cars discussed in above posts.

Verna: Absolutely stunning design with great power & features, and there is no match for the mighty engine producing ~128 BHP (even petrol engine is good). However, it has its own issues in terms of ride & handling. Due to soft suspensions (somewhat better in 2014 update) accompanied by vague steering, this car cannot be driven with full confidence on highway. Leave aside the cornering abilities as well! Rear legroom is not any better than sub 4 meter sedans, thus not a spacious sedan to suit to family needs of few people.

Tata Manza: Except design (exterior), this car is a gem, loaded with great features and is very spacious. It rides well and 1.3 MJD is tuned well with good suspension setup. The only issue is with the Tata badge, as not many are interested to spend a million on Tata car. Zest & Bolt might change this mentality, but only time will tell.

Fiat Linea: What a car!!! Absolute master piece! Timeless design! Italian beauty! 2014 updated Linea (barring some extra chrome) is a car I would always love to own. Interior styling has Italian touch everywhere and build quality is at par with Germans. It beats every other car in this range, when it comes to ride quality & cornering. 1.3 MJD produces enough power but gear box is a bit sluggish to operate. Fiat should have provided 1.6 ltr MJD at least as an option. BTW, 3 at rear is a squeeze here.

Vento & Rapid: They represent well what german cars are upto! A natural & classical design, solidly built, uses most advances technologies (read DSG), well powered and well behaved. Barring ASS & some reliability issues with DSG boxes, I personally don’t see any shortcomings in these cars. I just love those butter smooth DSGs.

Honda City 2014: If there is any VFM car in this range while still being premium, it has to be City. Honda has loaded this car with every available feature in this segment, and made is a bit sporty. Baring that chrome mwhay at front, the design is spot on. I agree that City has the best comfort (front & rear) than competitors and feels premium inside & out. That said, the plastic & overall build quality is little poor for this price. Both engines are mated well for in-city drivability i.e low end torque is well managed, thus no turbo lag. Suspension setup is quite good with decent steering feedback (but not the best). What City lacks is highway cruising, as the mid-range of both engines does not provide any spirited performance compared with german brothers or Linea or Verna (barring steering feedback). But, this is the most desirable car in this range for Indians, and this is a fact.

MSIL Ciaz: First time, a better designed sedan from MSIL! Design is simple but elegant (if not stunning), better designed front grill & those stylish projector headlamps adds the required premiumness for this segment. Rear is a look-a-like City and looks good. Side profile is very plain and doesn’t suit to its huge length. Build quality is far better than MSIL standards and looks at par with City, but not to the german standards. Dashboard design looks too good for a Maruti car (also better than some competitors), and features are at par with segment. Ride quality is decent but steering feedback is just OK type. It is spacious and feels premium. We live in the era where a D segment car (read Corolla) is powered by 86 BHP engine, and a sub 4 meter car is powered by 90 BHP (read Zest) and both sells well. Clearly, its complete package that sells here. That said, MSIL should have plonked 1.6 ltr beast into the Ciaz, at least as an option. Looking at the sheer size of Ciaz, it calls for better powered engine. I personally drove Ciaz diesel and didn’t feel it as underpowered, but yes it doesn’t ride like a swift (comparing just because of same engine).

Ford Fiesta: This is a driver’s car! Provides perfect driving position with best in class steering feedback. Interior styling is quite good and is loaded with features as well. Engine is well powered too. Where it lacks is the exterior design. At the front, Ford tried to mimic the Aston Martin looks, but it doesn’t go well with the overall design. Rear can only be compared with the worst ever designed cars, IMO.

If I’m in market to choose the car, I would choose the Italian beauty any day, if that’s for my personal use and less for family.

Now, if family comes into the picture, space & comfort also takes the priority. In this case, Verna, Fiesta, Linea are ruled out for me. Manza would be ruled out as its design is outdated. City & Ciaz both looks premium but City has some advantage due to better engine & brand equity (though diminishing with products like Mobilio). Still, I might put my money on Ciaz (better designed dashboard + projector headlamps) and will tune the engine to my test, since I will be saving few bucks. Vento (diesel DSG) will pose a strong competition, and if VW offers better package for extended warranty & roadside assistance, this will be the one!!!

 

[Rollerdude]

What a compilation autorock!! You said what I wanted to say but could not arrange them in words!! Laziness prevails!! Totally agree with you... You have compiled the C2 segment very well with each cars about their strength and weaknesses.

 

[vijay_968]

Nice summary autorock, Kudos. I feel your comments on "Highway performance, cornering abilities and rear legroom" of Verna and "lack of spirited performance" of City need corrections. If I write the speeds at which I drive, moderators will remove this post for over-speeding . When I drive like that, it is difficult to be in my rear view mirror; only certain class of cars have challenged or overtaken me; Honda City is in that club. When bored, I happily employ a City for a lead/sweeper car as it results in cutting down my travel time considerably. My Verna has done 40-50 kph going into corners up/down hill without touching brakes and that's good enough cornering ability in Ghats for me. In plains, moderator censored speeds are achievable. I am 178 cm tall, I drive my car, reach office parking 15-20 minutes earlier, sit in the rear seat behind driver's seat and read the newspaper; without adjusting driver's seat. A family of 4, all above 180 cm might definitely feel the lack of rear legroom. I've decided not to defend Fluidic Verna on these aspects any-more. I'll borrow and modify Rollerdude's words (@ post # 539): "Majority of the people complaining do not own a City or Verna and just say all that (reading the problems reported by new owners) much like rumour mills."

Now, 2 cents from my side on Ciaz: Many people feel Ciaz is the best option of owning and experiencing a C2 segment sedan at the maintenance cost and mileage of C1 segment. If Maruti and Ciaz meet that expectation, everyone (including I) will be happy, as customer benefits from healthy competition. If not, it will be SX4 Take-2.

Lastly, so many experts and Manza owners stated that it was a class above Dzire. Ill-informed (thanks dev7, for the phrase) public and enthusiasts laughed at them and Manza failed. Linea came to a Gun Battle with a Sword; yet to recover from wounds. I hope Ciaz is not laughed at and the Sword is indeed a Gun.

 

[AutoRock]

What a compilation autorock!! You said what I wanted to say but could not arrange them in words!! Laziness prevails!! Totally agree with you... You have compiled the C2 segment very well with each cars about their strength and weaknesses.

Thanks buddy

Nice summary autorock, Kudos. I feel your comments on "Highway performance, cornering abilities and rear legroom" of Verna and "lack of spirited performance" of City need corrections. If I write the speeds at which I drive, moderators will remove this post for over-speeding . When I drive like that, it is difficult to be in my rear view mirror; only certain class of cars have challenged or overtaken me; Honda City is in that club. When bored, I happily employ a City for a lead/sweeper car as it results in cutting down my travel time considerably. My Verna has done 40-50 kph going into corners up/down hill without touching brakes and that's good enough cornering ability in Ghats for me. In plains, moderator censored speeds are achievable.

Thanks vijay_968. Obviously, with 120+ BHP on tap in Verna, no other C1/C2 sedan can catch you on highway. My point was regarding the suspension setup and the steering feedback which is not inspirational while speeding on highway in Verna. If you drive Linea or Fiesta, you will get my point.

Now coming to the spirited driving: Why I say lack of spirited performance in City on highway because IVTEC or IDTEC engines are mated to provide better low end torque and power delivery is very linear even after 2k RPM. Neither those engines are rev-happy nor they provide any surge of power in the mid range. Cars like Linea (T-jet) have rev-happy engines and once the turbo spools-up, there's a sudden burst of power (but well controlled) assisted with superb handling and ride quality. This is spirited driving for me in this segment!

Now, 2 cents from my side on Ciaz: Many people feel Ciaz is the best option of owning and experiencing a C2 segment sedan at the maintenance cost and mileage of C1 segment. If Maruti and Ciaz meet that expectation, everyone (including I) will be happy, as customer benefits from healthy competition. If not, it will be SX4 Take-2.

Spot On! Competition helps to customers at the end. In fact, we should appreciate Maruti (for Ciaz), Tata (for Zest, Bolt) & Mahindra (for XUV) who have started developing better quality products (& still cheap to buy), which are capable to compete with European and US cars. Way to go, but the start looks promising!

 

[Rollerdude]

Thanks buddy

You are welcome mate!

Now coming to the spirited driving: Why I say lack of spirited performance in City on highway because IVTEC or IDTEC engines are mated to provide better low end torque and power delivery is very linear even after 2k RPM. Neither those engines are rev-happy nor they provide any surge of power in the mid range. Cars like Linea (T-jet) have rev-happy engines and once the turbo spools-up, there's a sudden burst of power (but well controlled) assisted with superb handling and ride quality. This is spirited driving for me in this segment!

Lol, I don't think you have ever driven an I-Vtec. It is THE most rev-happy engine in this segment and I say that aloud!! Also, a lot of people have opinions that the I-Vtec has poor low-end torque but your statement goes completely against it. Also, yes the delivery is linear upto about 2500 revvs (but never sluggish) but the power comes up very fast past 3000 and when you go past 4000 the City leaps forward like a ferocious tigress! Its hard to explain that acceleration in mere words. Yes, it lacks the turbo kick of a T-jet but the T-jet is no match for the top-end that the I-vtec provides and then this extremely contrary if you say that this engine isn't revv-happy! The T-jet's strength lies in its mid-range but the I-vtec's strength is both the mid-range and the top end!

 

[AutoRock]

You are welcome mate!

Lol, I don't think you have ever driven an I-Vtec. It is THE most rev-happy engine in this segment and I say that aloud!! Also, a lot of people have opinions that the I-Vtec has poor low-end torque but your statement goes completely against it. Also, yes the delivery is linear upto about 2500 revvs (but never sluggish) but the power comes up very fast past 3000 and when you go past 4000 the City leaps forward like a ferocious tigress! Its hard to explain that acceleration in mere words. Yes, it lacks the turbo kick of a T-jet but the T-jet is no match for the top-end that the I-vtec provides and then this extremely contrary if you say that this engine isn't revv-happy! The T-jet's strength lies in its mid-range but the I-vtec's strength is both the mid-range and the top end!

Agree, my mistake..I went with the flow of IDTEC which is not rev-happy, and does not provide much spirited drive. IVTEC is definitely far better engine than most of the competitors. But when it comes to petrol unit, I'will stick to T-jet on any day as I like that power burst

 

[dev7]

Nice summary autorock, Kudos. I feel your comments on "Highway performance, cornering abilities and rear legroom" of Verna and "lack of spirited performance" of City need corrections. If I write the speeds at which I drive, moderators will remove this post for over-speeding . When I drive like that, it is difficult to be in my rear view mirror; only certain class of cars have challenged or overtaken me; Honda City is in that club. When bored, I happily employ a City for a lead/sweeper car as it results in cutting down my travel time considerably. My Verna has done 40-50 kph going into corners up/down hill without touching brakes and that's good enough cornering ability in Ghats for me. In plains, moderator censored speeds are achievable. I am 178 cm tall, I drive my car, reach office parking 15-20 minutes earlier, sit in the rear seat behind driver's seat and read the newspaper; without adjusting driver's seat. A family of 4, all above 180 cm might definitely feel the lack of rear legroom. I've decided not to defend Fluidic Verna on these aspects any-more. I'll borrow and modify Rollerdude's words (@ post # 539): "Majority of the people complaining do not own a City or Verna and just say all that (reading the problems reported by new owners) much like rumour mills."

It seems like I am reading something that I have posted earlier.

One won't believe the speeds at which verna is capable of going, the speeds just keep increasing.
Did I mention that I own a dzire? It can touch double the speed limit. Performance is not the issue, braking is.

It isn't like verna can't handle itself, you just need to be in sync with it.
Like you can sit in a verna and ride it how-ever you want to?
NO! definitely not.
You need to give it and yourself some time so that you can understand how it responds to what you do.

Of-course there are some issues, everyone has some.

 

[vijay_968]

True AutoRock; my colleague had a Diesel Linea, but sold it to get the T-Jet. The look he gives to anyone that asks "why sell a DIESEL to buy a petrol, that too same car ?" is to be seen. Of course, he explains it politely in a sentence, but not many are able to understand it. After reading the last few posts here, I started day dreaming and saw this car:
An amalgamation of Italian & German Build, Verna's Design & Features with T-Jet / 1.6 CRDi Engines, Linea's stick-to-the-ground nature, Sunny's Space, City's Comforts & fuss-free ownership, Ford's Steering, Ciaz's supposedly cheaper spare parts, 25000km service interval and sold on invite system or on the Kart for 8L for Petrol and 8.75L for the Diesel.

Damn ... sometimes we wake up from sleep pretty quick.

It seems like I am reading something that I have posted earlier... (in) verna ... braking is (an issue) ... You need to give it and yourself some time so that you can understand how it responds to what you do...Of-course there are some issues, everyone has some.

dev7, ___ minds think alike. Voh toh mera hai :-)
Yes, Verna takes about 29m for 80km to zero, with all around disks and ABS. My earlier Matiz came to halt in 25.5m without ABS and on only 2 Disks (I'm not sure here). I think A-Star does it in 25m. Knowing the braking distance and knowing precisely where the left and right wheels are helps a lot. Like you said, it took me a little more than 1000km to understand Verna. Now, it is me and I am her. Again, like you said, we both have some combined issues though.

@ moderators: Pls forgive me, to make this post not an OT, I'd say Ciaz sold more than 5000 numbers once again last month. Hurray.

 

[allhyundaicars]

@ autorock - about the verna , i agree it's not the best compared to others. I haven't driven linea but last gen city several times.

On highways i have touched 170 kmph but for a few seconds and that too only once.

From day 1 i can't understand what all the fuss is about , it's not you but have read several reviews stating the same about handling.

I steer right , the car goes right. I steer left the car goes left.

At speeds of > 100 kmph on highways it's the same. I don't go more than 120 kmph and most people maintain speeds of 90kmph. I overtake cars that requires the handling part , not once i have felt the car didn't do what i wanted to do.

Ofcourse , linea must be the best in the handling department , but do you see people going zig zag while driving this car just to check the abilities on highways ? Maybe once or twice and people come back to their normal driving.

I think the main culprit was the suspension which has been taken care of (drove my friend's new verna , even the gear shifts are much smooter than mine, the first thing i noticed)

At times i have slowed down just because the car went up and down like crazy and it still does.

Some cars (popular also) are known for their shortcomings and some are known for just the positives.

Linea - when i suggested a car to a cousin , his reply "are you mad , who buys a fiat, no resale value) after reading all of your comments i told them fiat have the best handling and solid built.

Verna - like you , "all say suspension and handling" and i think suspension was the main problem.

City -" honda engines are the best" my dad says the same.

Ciaz- "who'll spend so much on a maruti , let's go for a premium brand like honda(which is not)

Vento/rapid- "costly maintenance."

It's people perception and they believe what they want to believe. And it all depends on the personal liking which car he/she goes for.

 

[AutoRock]

@ autorock - about the verna , i agree it's not the best compared to others. I haven't driven linea but last gen city several times.
On highways i have touched 170 kmph but for a few seconds and that too only once.
From day 1 i can't understand what all the fuss is about , it's not you but have read several reviews stating the same about handling.
I steer right , the car goes right. I steer left the car goes left.
At speeds of > 100 kmph on highways it's the same. I don't go more than 120 kmph and most people maintain speeds of 90kmph. I overtake cars that requires the handling part , not once i have felt the car didn't do what i wanted to do.
Ofcourse , linea must be the best in the handling department , but do you see people going zig zag while driving this car just to check the abilities on highways ? Maybe once or twice and people come back to their normal driving.

The real problem is, Verna’s steering (electronic) is too light to operate and doesn’t provide a perfect straight feedback like Linea or Fiesta. In Verna, steering does not weigh-up to the segment standards while speeding, thus does not give full confidence while cornering or taking sharper turns. I understand that, these are not regular instances in daily drives, but this is just one of the small issue for a normal person, but but may be a big issue for an enthusiast. I hope, you got my point.

I think the main culprit was the suspension which has been taken care of (drove my friend's new verna , even the gear shifts are much smooter than mine, the first thing i noticed)
At times i have slowed down just because the car went up and down like crazy and it still does.

Very true, suspension was the main culprit than the steering feedback in older Verna, as I also have mentioned in my earlier post. But, this has been rectified little bit in 2014 update. Suspensions are stiffened now, and I guess GC was also increased?

Linea - when i suggested a car to a cousin, his reply "are you mad , who buys a fiat, no resale value) after reading all of your comments i told them fiat have the best handling and solid built.

Lol. He is quite right though. But, if he’s too conscious about the resale, so he should not think anything except a Maruti car!

Ciaz- "who'll spend so much on a maruti , let's go for a premium brand like honda(which is not) .

Yes, Maruti (& Tata) has to overcome this mentality. Also, this was one of the reasons for many buyers for which MSIL saw failures for Baleno/SX4/Vitara & Kizashi.
But numbers of Ertiga & Ciaz have proved that people are now ready to spend a Million rupee on Maruti product, and that should give enough confidence to MSIL to launch more better products in future.

 

[vijay_968]

@ autorock - about the Verna . ..On highways i have touched 170 kmph but for a few seconds and that too only once.. . I steer right , the car goes right. I steer left the car goes left... At speeds of > 100 kmph on highways it's the same. I don't go more than 120 kmph and most people maintain speeds of 90kmph. I overtake cars that requires the handling part , not once i have felt the car didn't do what i wanted to...At times i have slowed down just because the car went up and down like crazy and it still does.. .

The first time I hit THAT speed was totally unintentional. I was alone, smoking with Windows down. Suddenly I realized that objects were disappearing faster than usual. VERY CAREFULLY I lowered my eyes to find that speed. Didn't dare to close the windows as that would have increased the speed. No pitching or rolling was observed. As road was clear, I let it go for a few more minutes before bringing her down by 20kph. That's when I realized the true potential of Verna engine. I normally hang around 130 and follow the straight racing line if traffic permits. While doing that, obviously the INSIDE CORNERS of the road are hugged a lot. A few times, while just about to commit into a overtaking move, the trucks ahead changed lanes and braking would have resulted in accident and hence I've steered her to the safer lane to complete the maneuver. That's why I am very much satisfied with Verna's handling. But, World wants to believe that Verna is a poor handler . As a TAI-ger, I've a responsibility to share MY observations.

PS: I've to admit, I kept complaining about the suspension during the 1st and 2nd free service, siting "Internet Forums" and I was told that the same was addressed. However, the bounce comes even now, if road is pretty bad and I start babying the car.

 

[AutoRock]

The first time I hit THAT speed was totally unintentional. I was alone, smoking with Windows down. Suddenly I realized that objects were disappearing faster than usual. VERY CAREFULLY I lowered my eyes to find that speed. Didn't dare to close the windows as that would have increased the speed. No pitching or rolling was observed. As road was clear, I let it go for a few more minutes before bringing her down by 20kph. That's when I realized the true potential of Verna engine. I normally hang around 130 and follow the straight racing line if traffic permits. While doing that, obviously the INSIDE CORNERS of the road are hugged a lot. A few times, while just about to commit into a overtaking move, the trucks ahead changed lanes and braking would have resulted in accident and hence I've steered her to the safer lane to complete the maneuver. That's why I am very much satisfied with Verna's handling. But, World wants to believe that Verna is a poor handler . As a TAI-ger, I've a responsibility to share MY observations.

PS: I've to admit, I kept complaining about the suspension during the 1st and 2nd free service, siting "Internet Forums" and I was told that the same was addressed. However, the bounce comes even now, if road is pretty bad and I start babying the car.

I understand your feelings . None of the reviews (by owners/reviewers/critics) ever questioned or complained the potential of mighty Verna, else this beast would have not enjoyed as segment king for almost 3 years in a row! Every car has a flaw (major or minor), and as a owner we learn to manage/negate it (we have little option actually). For example, I drive diesel Ertiga mostly for my daily commute to office and sometimes my brother's City. Everybody on earth (except MSIL who don't admit ) knows that 1.3 MJD suffers from turbo lag which quite irritated me at the start, but somehow I have managed to negate it through gear changing and by changing my driving style. And now if somebody asks me about turbo lag, I say 'what's it?' It's just one of those things you see! I hope, you got the point.

Anyway, lets not go OT further, and lets stick to the thread.

Where is the new hero in the town (Ciaz)? Any updates from new owners?

 

[due11027]

Has anyone upgraded to 195/60R15 tyres?
At the dealer or outside?
Which brand were the factory tyres and which ones were put in?
How much was the cost difference?
Any impact on handling, braking and FE?

Also, which brand under-body anti-rust coating is good? How much is approx. cost? How long does it last?

 

[Highway Ranger]

The first time I hit THAT speed was totally unintentional. I was alone, smoking with Windows down.

Smoking with the windows down while driving is very dangerous. The wind may cause some sparks to fly off the cigarette and by reflex, one will take the eyes off the road to check if the sparks has done any damage - resulting in loss of control. Please avoid if possible.