Maruti Suzuki's New Sedan: Ciaz (Codenamed YL1)

[AutoRock]

I think I am at the verge of cancelling the booking. I am not sure. Still in a Dilemma. Ciaz is a great car, no offence towards the vehicle. But thinking whether it would satisfy me in terms of power.

I would suggest you go with Ciaz and tune the engine as per your liking. I can't recollect if you have booked Diesel or Petrol engine. 1.3 MJD is tune friendly and you can tune it to 122 BHP easily and that too within the safe limit of engine and other parts. And there are petrol tuners as well in the market. This would cost anywhere between 18k to 40k depending upon the option (remap, tuning box etc)
Since you would be saving some money with Ciaz (compared with competitors), you may also go for bigger shoes for it which would support the breaking, which might be required to handle this extra power

 

[DJ bro]

Yesterday Test drove the Ciaz ZDI.
Quite surprised by the throttle response at low end. It has ample power for city speeds and traffic and the turbo-lag is much lesser. Though the Turbo-punch is reduced now, it is easier to drive in city traffic.
Braking is good, space is provided in abundance, quality is good, power is good enough and better than Honda City. Value too is quite good with a long enough equipment list.
Ride quality is stable and feels like a bigger car.
The steering felt a bit lighter than my Ertiga and though it is a good thing in the city, I doubt it's feedback on highways.
Quite a bit of road-noise intrudes into the cabin, though the engine noise is very low unless you revv it hard.
Quite a good and competent car in the C segment and an overall better package than the Honda City.

 

[DJ bro]

Some pics:
First time got to see a Grey Ciaz. These were ZDI variants for PDI/delivery.

 

[Volksjäger]

I would suggest you go with Ciaz and tune the engine as per your liking. I can't recollect if you have booked Diesel or Petrol engine. 1.3 MJD is tune friendly and you can tune it to 122 BHP easily and that too within the safe limit of engine and other parts. And there are petrol tuners as well in the market. This would cost anywhere between 18k to 40k depending upon the option (remap, tuning box etc)
Since you would be saving some money with Ciaz (compared with competitors), you may also go for bigger shoes for it which would support the breaking, which might be required to handle this extra power

I have booked a Diesel zdi+. I cannot think of a remap for a brand new car which is already tuned by Maruti very well. My problem is, I have been using Maruti Swift and Fiat Punto since 6 years now. I am bored of Maruti and that engine. P.S. I love 1.3 MJD in the swift even now and it's an imported one. And remaps has to be done with precaution, remappers are no better people than R&D engineers from Maruti. It will cause wear and tear to the engine, injectors etc. And what most of them don't know is, you must also increase the radiator fan rpm to cope up with the heat produced by the remapped engine. And when I am spending 12.50 lakh on a car why do I have to look for a remap ? My actual problem is, I am bored of Maruti. For me ciaz looks dull. It has the best interior of the lot, best space and good A.S.S. But Maruti giving me the same engine in a different tune and package is not exciting to me. You see, when you book a car and you are eagerly waiting for it, you have this feeling of enthusiasm which I am not able to get it for the ciaz. So I have no offence for the ciaz. It's really nice car which is not made for me I guess. My next options are VW Polo GT TDI or 2014 Hyundai Verna with the updated suspension. And the biggest con for VW is the worst A.S.S or else I would have been very happy with the GT. I am going to test drive the Verna today. if I like the power and everything else. Then I will buy it. Will keep you updated.

 

[dev7]

I have booked a Diesel zdi+. I cannot think of a remap for a brand new car which is already tuned by Maruti very well. My problem is, I have been using Maruti Swift and Fiat Punto since 6 years now. I am bored of Maruti and that engine. P.S. I love 1.3 MJD in the swift even now and it's an imported one. And remaps has to be done with precaution, remappers are no better people than R&D engineers from Maruti. It will cause wear and tear to the engine, injectors etc. And what most of them don't know is, you must also increase the radiator fan rpm to cope up with the heat produced by the remapped engine. And when I am spending 12.50 lakh on a car why do I have to look for a remap ? My actual problem is, I am bored of Maruti. For me ciaz looks dull. It has the best interior of the lot, best space and good A.S.S. But Maruti giving me the same engine in a different tune and package is not exciting to me. You see, when you book a car and you are eagerly waiting for it, you have this feeling of enthusiasm which I am not able to get it for the ciaz. So I have no offence for the ciaz. It's really nice car which is not made for me I guess. My next options are VW Polo GT TDI or 2014 Hyundai Verna with the updated suspension. And the biggest con for VW is the worst A.S.S or else I would have been very happy with the GT. I am going to test drive the Verna today. if I like the power and everything else. Then I will buy it. Will keep you updated.

Same here, buddy.
I have been facing the same dilemma. But I am gonna try the new verna as well before finalising, and so should you. Because, you know, no other car can quench the thirst for power as verna would. And I am quite sure that hyundai would address the suspension issue in the upcoming facelift because it is what they need to do it right now.
About ciaz I would say it is a VFM product but if you want to know why it won't satisfy you, I'll PM you (I don't own it but I drive it quite often).
Besides, you must go through the service costs beforehand that they would charge for the ciaz for they may charge more for the bigger car, whereas it shares most of the service parts with swift and dzire.

However, with the price gap reducing b/w petrol and diesel, honda city i-VTEC seems a better option to me as my monthly average is less than 1500 kms.

P.S.: Presently, I own a 2009 model swift dzire. If it wasn't for its braking, I wouldn't have thought of selling it for another 5 years.

 

[vijay_968]

Yesterday Test drove the Ciaz ZDI.
Quite surprised by the throttle response at low end. It has ample power for city speeds and traffic and the turbo-lag is much lesser. Though the Turbo-punch is reduced now, it is easier to drive in city traffic.
Braking is good, space is provided in abundance, quality is good, power is good enough and better than Honda City. Value too is quite good with a long enough equipment list.
Ride quality is stable and feels like a bigger car.
The steering felt a bit lighter than my Ertiga and though it is a good thing in the city, I doubt it's feedback on highways.
Quite a bit of road-noise intrudes into the cabin, though the engine noise is very low unless you revv it hard.
Quite a good and competent car in the C segment and an overall better package than the Honda City.

Ahhh ... Manza is 1.2Lacs cheaper than Ciaz's Rs.9.5Lacs which is 1.5Lacs cheaper than City. Ciaz matches the costlier City in Length and Boot Space. Manza matches the costlier Ciaz in Length, Engine tuning, cheaper spare parts, equipment for equipment (well, almost), Service Networks, and beats it with with lesser Cabin Noise. Talking purely of "Throttle response / City Speeds / Minimum Lag / Easier to Drive / Noise in Cabin / Big Space / Comfort etc", I feel Manza is at par or better than Ciaz. We are not talking about looks or badge here. I'm sorry DJ bro, Ciaz belongs to Manza category; not in the league of the Legendary City P..E..R..I..O..D

PS: I'm talking from my experience 2 years back when Manza surprised me with its almost Petrol like behaviour and decent City manners. The TATA Badge was not acceptable to family and it lost out to a segment higher Verna. On highways, normally I don't let anyone follow me within 50m for the fear of tailgating; I'm a coward and I simply run away. Sometimes back, driving thro' a fantastic and curvy single carriage-way in TN, a Manza kept pace with my 126 bHP Verna, stride for stride, for quite some distance .

Mileage and resale value:
Say, you drive 15,000km flat in an year. Say Ciaz gives 19kmpl and Manza gives 17 kmpl. Lets assume Diesel is at Rs.60/- flat. Ciaz will consume 789Lit and for Manza it is 882Lit. The savings per year in Ciaz is Rs.5580/-. If Rs. 1,20,000/- was put in an FD (Int @ 9%), even after adjusting 5580/- from the interest every year, at the end of 7 years, 1.2L would grow to Rs.1.73Lacs. At the end of 9 years, it would be 1.93Lacs. By that time Ciaz would have tanked (as did SX4) and 2nd hand market price would be at par with Manza's ! So buying a Manza than a Ciaz, would make one richer by about 2 Lacs after 9 years. Cheers.

PS to OT: Talking about mileage in 10Lac segment me toh pagal ho gaya.

 

[vijay_968]

Same here, buddy.
... no other car can quench the thirst for power as verna would...
... I am quite sure that hyundai would address the suspension issue ...
... if you want to know why it won't satisfy you, I'll PM you (I don't own it but I drive it quite often) ... However, with the price gap reducing b/w petrol and diesel, honda city i-VTEC seems a better option to me as my monthly average is less than 1500 kms.

P.S.: Presently, I own a 2009 model swift dzire. If it wasn't for its braking, I wouldn't have thought of selling it for another 5 years.

@moderators: Sorry, I missed dev7's post while replying earlier, otherwise it would have been a multi-quote.

1. Power: Yes; if it is diesel, if it is at 10Lacs, it has to be the 1.6L Diesel Verna.

2. Suspension Issue: Seriously, what is that? Pls read my recent experiences on poor roads in: http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/f...-tiruttani-blr-travelogue-9th-nov-2014-a.html
Have I posted of suspension issue in any of those bad stretches ? If a car is pitching and rolling heavily, one cannot sleep THAT well in the rear seat. However, once or twice a month, under body scraps when speed is little higher coming down a medium-to-steep speed bump.

3. PM: I'm interested. Sending you a PM after this post.

4. City: If it is Petrol, if it is 10Lac, it has to be City, City and City. No doubt on that.

5. Dzire: Unless you are having nightmares with the brakes, no need to sell a 5 year old Dzire. Keep it for another 2 years. You would have better choices 2 Yrs later. How about it ?

 

[DJ bro]

Ahhh ... Manza is 1.2Lacs cheaper than Ciaz's Rs.9.5Lacs which is 1.5Lacs cheaper than City. Ciaz matches the costlier City in Length and Boot Space. Manza matches the costlier Ciaz in Length, Engine tuning, cheaper spare parts, equipment for equipment (well, almost), Service Networks, and beats it with with lesser Cabin Noise. Talking purely of "Throttle response / City Speeds / Minimum Lag / Easier to Drive / Noise in Cabin / Big Space / Comfort etc", I feel Manza is at par or better than Ciaz. We are not talking about looks or badge here. I'm sorry DJ bro, Ciaz belongs to Manza category; not in the league of the Legendary City P..E..R..I..O..D

PS: I'm talking from my experience 2 years back when Manza surprised me with its almost Petrol like behaviour and decent City manners. The TATA Badge was not acceptable to family and it lost out to a segment higher Verna. On highways, normally I don't let anyone follow me within 50m for the fear of tailgating; I'm a coward and I simply run away. Sometimes back, driving thro' a fantastic and curvy single carriage-way in TN, a Manza kept pace with my 126 bHP Verna, stride for stride, for quite some distance .

Mileage and resale value:
Say, you drive 15,000km flat in an year. Say Ciaz gives 19kmpl and Manza gives 17 kmpl. Lets assume Diesel is at Rs.60/- flat. Ciaz will consume 789Lit and for Manza it is 882Lit. The savings per year in Ciaz is Rs.5580/-. If Rs. 1,20,000/- was put in an FD (Int @ 9%), even after adjusting 5580/- from the interest every year, at the end of 7 years, 1.2L would grow to Rs.1.73Lacs. At the end of 9 years, it would be 1.93Lacs. By that time Ciaz would have tanked (as did SX4) and 2nd hand market price would be at par with Manza's ! So buying a Manza than a Ciaz, would make one richer by about 2 Lacs after 9 years. Cheers.

PS to OT: Talking about mileage in 10Lac segment me toh pagal ho gaya.

I wonder how are comparing the Ciaz with the Manza instead of the City?
Also the "legendary" Honda City you mean is no longer that impressive since Honda has cut quite too much of corners and costs. Also for your info, the Diesel Ciaz is cheaper, more faster, better packaged with consistent quality and more efficient than the Diesel City. For some the Ciaz looks better and more original than the City, which seems like just a facelift on the outside and too much flashy inside.
The Ciaz showed 18kpl on the MID in City conditions, and that too a Test drive car!
Manza can never be compared to these cars. It is old, heavy and soon to be discontinued. Although a very good, spacious VFM sedan, the Manza is simply old to be compared with the Ciaz. I hope Tata is working on a new and much more modern Midsize sedan, to replace the Manza.

 

[bharathbigb]

Yesh,DJ Bro.It is not fair to Compare the Manza here.Sure it was hell alot better those days but today it is totally outdated and word is TATA is fed up with that car and is gonna discontinue it.BTW,Bro,Awesome Pics bro and great review.

 

[vijay_968]

I wonder how are comparing the Ciaz with the Manza instead of the City? ... Manza can never be compared to these cars ...

Ha Ha, you fell for the trap . I've plenty of reasons to compare Manza to Ciaz, you do not like that. That too after seeing Fiat's 1.3L engine under the hood of both cars. When Ciaz is compared with City (Size, Style, Original Looks, Quality, Efficiency, and what not) I do not like that. It is that simple friend. Comparing Ciaz to City is like comparing Canvas Nitro to Xiaomi Mi3. Micromax lovers accept that as they KNOW precisely what they are looking for in their phones, do NOT try to glorify their phones or Co and do not try to prove that theirs is THE superior phone. Maruti lovers try that consistently, year after year.

With a 1.3L engine, both Manza and Ciaz belong to the same segment, size and feature wise. See I'm not pushing up the Chevy Sail Sedan nor pulling down the Linea into this group, though all four have the same engine. If Amaze, Dzire, Etios, Sail, Xcent, Zest are in C1 Segment, City, Linea, Rapid, Vento, Verna are in C2 Segment, I would say Ciaz belongs to C1.5 Segment (or is it C1.3 Segment ?). If Maruti came up with Manza, it would have been a huge success, you know that? Who else could have sold a less than average looking (old gen) Dzire in those many numbers? Maruti should be worshipping their supporters and lovers.

Nothing wrong in saying that you like Ciaz because it has touched you. I never try to justify my choice. Also, I NEVER argue that my Verna IS THE BEST CAR in the world.

PS: You wrote "The Ciaz showed 18kpl on the MID in City conditions"; sit in a Diesel Verna to see a higher figure in MID in City Driving. Or in a Rapid or in a Vento. A higher capacity engine does the same job without additional stress and ends up giving better efficiency. But we buy these higher cap engines not for mileage .

 

[DJ bro]

Ha Ha, you fell for the trap . I've plenty of reasons to compare Manza to Ciaz, you do not like that. That too after seeing Fiat's 1.3L engine under the hood of both cars. When Ciaz is compared with City (Size, Style, Original Looks, Quality, Efficiency, and what not) I do not like that. It is that simple friend. Comparing Ciaz to City is like comparing Canvas Nitro to Xiaomi Mi3. Micromax lovers accept that as they KNOW precisely what they are looking for in their phones, do NOT try to glorify their phones or Co and do not try to prove that theirs is THE superior phone. Maruti lovers try that consistently, year after year.

With a 1.3L engine, both Manza and Ciaz belong to the same segment, size and feature wise. See I'm not pushing up the Chevy Sail Sedan nor pulling down the Linea into this group, though all four have the same engine. If Amaze, Dzire, Etios, Sail, Xcent, Zest are in C1 Segment, City, Linea, Rapid, Vento, Verna are in C2 Segment, I would say Ciaz belongs to C1.5 Segment (or is it C1.3 Segment ?). If Maruti came up with Manza, it would have been a huge success, you know that? Who else could have sold a less than average looking (old gen) Dzire in those many numbers? Maruti should be worshipping their supporters and lovers.

Nothing wrong in saying that you like Ciaz because it has touched you. I never try to justify my choice. Also, I NEVER argue that my Verna IS THE BEST CAR in the world.

PS: You wrote "The Ciaz showed 18kpl on the MID in City conditions"; sit in a Diesel Verna to see a higher figure in MID in City Driving. Or in a Rapid or in a Vento. A higher capacity engine does the same job without additional stress and ends up giving better efficiency. But we buy these higher cap engines not for mileage .

What are you trying to say ji?
I am NOT a Blind Maruti lover. I just Love the Ertiga, that's all.
So if you are comparing the Ciaz with Manza just because they are similar in engine capacity, then what about the Linea sirji?
So in your terms, just because the Ecosport has a 1.0 Ecoboost engine, does it means it can be compared with the Alto K10? (No offense to Ecosport lovers/owners)
I like the Ciaz of course, but I definitely would be in a dilemma between the Vento/Rapid and the Ciaz if I were to pick one. (I personally have had a crush with the German sedans)
But if I were to pick a Compact Sedan, my default choice would be the Tata Zest.
Paper figures and engine capacity says NOTHING about the overall performance of the car ji. One needs to see it, feel it and drive it in person to know about the car; I have driven it and I honestly say the Ciaz is overall a better car compared to even the Honda City.
I have no offense against the Manza, but it is quite an old car with a "Taxi" image hanging onto it, though it has an equally long equipment list. The biggest problem is with it's design. To be really compared with the Ciaz/City, Tata must launch an all-new and more appealing C segment sedan.
If the Verna is even more efficient than the Ciaz, then why are the claimed figures not as much?
No offense to anyone

 

[AshBabu]

Also for your info, the Diesel Ciaz is cheaper, more faster, better packaged with consistent quality and more efficient than the Diesel City.

I have not even test driven new City or Ciaz. But I would differ from your observation on consistent quality. True Honda owners have reported niggles and at least reading from the forums, the latest batch quality seems to be improving.
For Ciaz it is early days yet, and there was already recall done by Maruti for certain issues. Normally any new model will have issues in the beginning which are corrected by manufacturer down the line.

 

[DJ bro]

I have not even test driven new City or Ciaz. But I would differ from your observation on consistent quality. True Honda owners have reported niggles and at least reading from the forums, the latest batch quality seems to be improving.
For Ciaz it is early days yet, and there was already recall done by Maruti for certain issues. Normally any new model will have issues in the beginning which are corrected by manufacturer down the line.

By "consistent quality", I mean the exteriors and interior parts quality. The Ciaz is quite a bit better than the City in this factor.
Also given that Maruti have been dealing with quite a lot of Swifts, Dzires and Ertigas, I expect the Ciaz too to be as reliable as them.

 

[Rollerdude]

So, you mean that the quality is not consistent in the City but it is in the Ciaz? Many people have complained about the quality going down in the new City but majority of those were relating to the door beading or the idler belt issue with the I-Vtec Motor. In fact, majority of the people complaining do not own a city and just say all that reading the problems reported by new owners much like rumour mills. Most of the owners accept that quality has gone down just because a lot of people are saying that and they don't want to get into an argument. As far as the interiors are concerned, I still like them however they are. Yes, the top plastic is hard but it never feels or looks cheap and infact, the overall cabin looks and feels a lot more modern than the Ciaz's. Sit in the back, and you will immediately notice the difference between the Ciaz and the City, (It is like comparing a Asus Zenfone with a Micromax or a Lava, they may provide better specs on paper but the hand held experience is altogether different). The under-thigh support is lacking in the Ciaz while City is extremely comfortable at the back! Exteriors too, initial owners have complained about panel gaps in boot and other places but I don't find it too concerning. Yes, the Ciaz is cheaper and offers almost all of the City at a lower cost making it a better overall product but not everything is just what we see in paper. The City is a brand in its own. Think of the C segment and the it is the City what appears first, in fact, it will be not wrong to say that the City defines the C segment. It has enormous road presence and people see it as a sure shot 10 lac car. It has that desirability that not many cars can match!

 

[vijay_968]

... if you are comparing the Ciaz with Manza just because they are similar in engine capacity, then what about the Linea sirji?
So in your terms, ... Ecosport ... can be compared with the Alto K10? (No offense to Ecosport lovers/owners) ... But if I were to pick a Compact Sedan, my default choice would be the Tata Zest... I honestly say the Ciaz is overall a better car compared to even the Honda City.
I have no offense against the Manza ... To be really compared with the Ciaz/City, Tata must launch an all-new and more appealing C segment sedan...If the Verna is even more efficient than the Ciaz, then why are the claimed figures not as much?
No offense to anyone

I brought Manza into the equation ONLY to kindle a response from you, I'll admit it. It's difficult for you to compare a Taxi image car with Ciaz. It is difficult for me to compare a budget minded (kitna dethi hai) manufacturer's car to Honda.

You've to park a Ciaz next to a Linea to know why I'm NOT pulling her down to Ciaz segment. Built up area being same, a duplex house constructed on a 30x40 site is not so convenient as a single story house constructed on a 30x50 or 40x60 site. Linea is in a different league Sirji.

Ecoboost engine and the one in Alto-K10? It is like comparing 1 kg Platinum with 1kg Gold. Ciaz and other C2 segment engines? It is like comparing a 1Mbps broadband with a 4Mbps b/b.

TATA Zest - you have hit bull's eye.

With City: This is where I differ. You say, "I like Ciaz over City". I do not have problem. You say "Ciaz is better than City", I say "Manza is better than Ciaz". Deal ?

For ciaz to belong in C2 segment, we need Fiat's famed 1.6L multi-jet.

Verna being more efficient than the Ciaz: Advertised figures are ARAI figures in controlled environment. You need to get into a Verna to see the instant kpl yourself. I've got more than 21 kpl (Avg) a while ago when I was sedately driving around 80-100 kph for over 100km distance. But, I felt sleepy at those low speeds and needed 2 tea-breaks. These high power engines are made for fun basically and owners concentrate more on that; mileage is a by-product.

... In fact, majority of the people complaining do not own a City ... Most of the owners don't want to get into an argument...the overall cabin looks and feels a lot more modern than the Ciaz's... The under-thigh support is lacking in the Ciaz while City is extremely comfortable at the back!

Yes, the Ciaz is cheaper and offers almost all of the City at a lower cost ... but not everything is just what we see in paper. The City is a brand in its own...It has enormous road presence and people see it as a sure shot 10 lac car. It has that desirability that not many cars can match!

Phew...finally someone to my defence. Thanks buddy. I'll borrow your words: Manza is cheaper and offers almost all of Ciaz. The reason I brought Manza was purely to put things in proper perspective, as you have rightly said "not everything is just what we see in paper". I did not want a fellow TAI-gers to hurriedly buy a Ciaz thinking that it belongs up there only to later.

So, I'll conclude like this: Zest/Dzire belong in C1 segment, Ciaz belongs in C1.3 segment and City belongs in C2 Segment. If anyone is not accepting this logic, be warned, I might bring a remapped Esteem or a Tempo Traveller into equation next time .