Mahindra XUV500 vs Tata Aria vs Toyota Innova!

[jayadev]

TATAs generally always give better FE. I have heard safari gives 10-11 in mumbai city whereas my scorpio to give only 9-10 kmpl.

This one should also be considered as a criteria for overall fineness of a product.FE.

it is dfficult to churn out huge power and great FE. where tata did excel for global standards.

But when we are in a debate we try to put things bit sarcastically.

How good can be a an engine which is good to drive but fuel thirsty Vs sober to drive but efficient. obviously most of us even myself will pickup the "good to drive" one.

That is what Mahindra gave to Indian which is not so appreciable IMO.
more mahindra scorpios and Innova are seen on the road as Taxi but people dont buy Tata cars due to Taxi Image..sounds hypocracy.

I do agree on one thing definitely, when it comes to marketing tata is like "ayaa ram gaya ram" .I never seen Sales and marketing in sync when it comes to Tata that is where they always failed.

but mahindra is more proffessional with better form earning good reputations.

 

[raj_5004]

And one never says anything about hopless BRAKING of Scorpio. One never gets braking confidence like Safari. The HANDLING too is poor of scorpio.
Why aren't these 2 aspects never highlighted ??

Because I have never felt the braking of Scorpio mHawk to be hopeless. Yes, the older Scorpios did have a braking problem but there is no difference in the braking of a scorpio 2.2 or safari 2.2!

Which SUV has good handling? Safari has?

How many STARS ?? Please post the link here.

Sadly, Mahindra has just mentioned they have cleared the test without mentioning the ratings. Cant help it.

Maruti 800 too was selling for such a loooong period of time. Does this make it a good car ?

Of course. Maruti 800 was the best car of its times, any doubts?

And so do Tatas have many enemies, be it Maruti or Hyundai.
When Nano catches fire, BIG NEWS. When WAGON-R catches fire, NO NEWS;

Did 9 wagon Rs catch fire within weeks of its delivery, all together?

Dude, this was marketing gimmick. This was micro-hybrid & not Hybrid.

DUDE!

Please google "Mahindra Scorpio Hybrid". half baked knowledge is dangerous.

I am not talking about Micro hybrid, I agree thats a poor marketing tactic.

If you want to know what is TRUE HYBRID, check out the BLUE-EFFICIENCY tech of Merc.

No, but thanks buddy. I dont want to learn from someone who is posting incorrect info.

I know about hybrid as I have worked on hybrid cars.

And are you saying blue efficiency by Merc is a Hybrid?

FYI, Blue Efficiency is not hybrid -

BlueEFFICIENCY is an agglomeration of numerous advancements; for example: aerodynamics that reduce drag, lightweight materials, intelligent energy management system, and improved energy-efficient power steering system. Each of these measures does its bit to reduce fuel consumption, collectively offering substantial savings while reducing CO2 emissions by up to 23%.

You can try googling on how a hybrid works.

by this logic, even Toyota is poor in tech coz even Fortuner doesn't have monocoque chassis !!

Fortuner is a proper off roader with full time 4WD & low ratio & lockable differential. you are saying Aria is an offroader?

Xylo too was a failure.

Xylo was a failure?

When i wrote in another thread that TATA safari is a failure, it created a fury among many members.

Tata safari in Sep 11 = 1541 units
Mahindra Xylo in Sep 11 = 3002 units

So if safari is not a flop, how come xylo, which sells almost 3 times, can be considered a FLOP?

Here is other list:-

Mahindra Classic- Failed,
Mahindra Thar - Failed,

LOL, you expect these niche cars to sell in volumes? tell me, to which cars did you compare the classic & thar with? who are the competitors?

Thar - 1366 units
Gypsy - 258 units

Mahindra Verito Vs Tata Manza - Failed,

Agreed, but cmon, lets talk about REAL mahindra products.

Mahindra Genio Vs Tata 207 - Failed,

Genio is just launched, how did you conclude it failed in comparison to a product which is in the market for 10 years?

BTW, 207 should be compared with mahindra pik up & not genio. Mahindra pik up easily outsells 207 !!!

Mahindra Maximo Vs Tata Ace - Failed.

agreed.

Don't judge success by bookings. Had that been the case, Toyota Etios would have been success .
To know real worth of vehicle, let us see what happens 1 year down the line with XUV.

Car manufacturers make cars to sell. If they have made a good product, it will & should sell.

I agree sales figures are not the only criteria to judge a car though.

As usual PAID REVIEWS. Kept out Tata Aria from the list.

Would you have said the same if the review was in favour of Aria?

This one should also be considered as a criteria for overall fineness of a product.FE.

it is dfficult to churn out huge power and great FE. where tata did excel for global standards.

we cant say mahindras are thirsty either. my scorpio mhawk used to give better FE than my innova, even though it was heavier & more powerful.

That is what Mahindra gave to Indian which is not so appreciable IMO.
more mahindra scorpios and Innova are seen on the road as Taxi but people dont buy Tata cars due to Taxi Image..sounds hypocracy.

agreed about innova, but i have not seen many scorpios as taxis.

 

[autosafari]

This one should also be considered as a criteria for overall fineness of a product.FE.

it is dfficult to churn out huge power and great FE. where tata did excel for global standards.

But when we are in a debate we try to put things bit sarcastically.

How good can be a an engine which is good to drive but fuel thirsty Vs sober to drive but efficient. obviously most of us even myself will pickup the "good to drive" one.

That is what Mahindra gave to Indian which is not so appreciable IMO.
more mahindra scorpios and Innova are seen on the road as Taxi but people dont buy Tata cars due to Taxi Image..sounds hypocracy.

I do agree on one thing definitely, when it comes to marketing tata is like "ayaa ram gaya ram" .I never seen Sales and marketing in sync when it comes to Tata that is where they always failed.

but mahindra is more proffessional with better form earning good reputations.

Very good view point.

TATA marketing is lethargic and lazy. (yes they come out with very good advertisements but that is secondary in automobile world)

Their PR (Public Relations) work is the poorest of all and thus dont get a good rating from experts/reviewers.

In Projects/construction industry langauge, they fail to map key people.

As you said double standard is seen not only about the issue of Taxi image, but in other aspects also. For instance, take the design of Volkswagon - Its the same shape (not similar but same) front shape and grill for Polo, Vento, Jetta and 26 lac Passat - no complaints.

But similar grill design in Indica, Manza and Aria - Its all the same vehicle just blown up.

We should appreciate the classic design of Safari which is still a looker even after 14 years.

Similarly Aria is classic and elegant.

XUV5oo is overdone and let us wait another two years and see whether that turns any head (may be heads will turn away).

 

[mastersquall]

Xylo too was a failure. Here is other list:-

Mahindra Classic- Failed,
Mahindra Thar - Failed,
Mahindra Verito Vs Tata Manza - Failed,
Mahindra Genio Vs Tata 207 - Failed,
Mahindra Maximo Vs Tata Ace - Failed.

O_O xylo failed . are sure you are not living in dream

 

[mukeshus]

And one never says anything about hopless BRAKING of Scorpio. One never gets braking confidence like Safari. The HANDLING too is poor of scorpio.

Hey buddy, Scorpio's braking is excellent.

I had test drove Safari, didn't like its bulkiness.
And that i could not test it at high speeds as driving was in city.

But i hope you are speaking with respect to 2.6 Crde Scorpio.

The mHawks have better braking than earlier Crde 2.6 & Fortuner.
I don't know which Scorpio you were speaking about.

I don't want to corner in an SUV, for that reasons sedan's are there.
If the whole world want's to corner, go ahead by a sedan.

 

[THE XOVER]

@raj_5004

Once again you have posted wrong data on our forum.And once again I will prove you wrong based upon facts.

September 2011 sales of tata Safari =1937 units ( you mentioned 1541)

Sep 2011 sales of XYLO = 2430 (you mentioned 3002 units).

Amazing how biased you are , you deliberately decreased tata car's sales number and increased mahindra's number.

Any one interested in source can PM me.

Now I won't call Xylo a flop, but yet its true that even though mahindra launched it to cater to Innovas' taxi/private market, yet it hasn't been as success story for them as the Scorpio.

Safari is basically a 5 seater vehicle that sells because of its looks/charm and appeal, it is a cult car IMO, and yet it sells in decent no.s ,so any one calling t a flop must be insane to say the least.

 

[raj_5004]

@raj_5004

Once again you have posted wrong data on our forum.And once again I will prove you wrong based upon facts.

September 2011 sales of tata Safari =1937 units ( you mentioned 1541)

Sep 2011 sales of XYLO = 2430 (you mentioned 3002 units).

Amazing how biased you are , you deliberately decreased tata car's sales number and increased mahindra's number.

Any one interested in source can PM me.

Sorry buddy, but my source tells me the numbers I have posted!

Maybe mine is incorrect or yours is incorrect but I am definitely not posting wrong info purposely.

desperate to prove me biased? look out for some other reasons!

Now I won't call Xylo a flop, but yet its true that even though mahindra launched it to cater to Innovas' taxi/private market, yet it hasn't been as success story for them as the Scorpio.

Compared to the grande, it has been a hit. Mahindra has not launched the xylo in the innova's segment. Xylo's top end almost costs the same as innova's base model!

Safari is basically a 5 seater vehicle that sells because of its looks/charm and appeal, it is a cult car IMO, and yet it sells in decent no.s ,so any one calling t a flop must be insane to say the least.

For me, anyone calling a safari a cult car (because it is a 5 seater) is insanely insane! LOL, I have heard these various adjectives for the safari like cult vehicle, king of the road, niche vehicle... It amuses me to no end.

Its just a way of justifying it low sales, thats it!

Thar is indeed a niche or cult vehicle, yet it was compared in terms of sales before! Fanboyism & Bias... I tell you!

 

[THE XOVER]

Sorry buddy, but my source tells me the numbers I have posted!

Wrong, your source told you the right data you twisted it to prove your point.

Maybe mine is incorrect or yours is incorrect but I am definitely not posting wrong info purposely.

I will prove it that you do.

desperate to prove me biased? look out for some other reasons!


Here you go another shrewed reply from unbiased raj_5004, all folks at TAI please check another thread "Failed Cars in India" page no.11, and check post no.#154, where our dear raj _5004 claims from his same very source that safari sold 1937 units in SEP 2011 and here he posts from the same reliable source that safari sold 1541 units in sep 2011.So folks who is posting biased unreliable data here is quite clear.



Compared to the grande, it has been a hit. Mahindra has not launched the xylo in the innova's segment. Xylo's top end almost costs the same as innova's base model!

Wow you never said compared to Yeti , Aria has been a hit.



For me, anyone calling a safari a cult car (because it is a 5 seater) is insanely insane! LOL, I have heard these various adjectives for the safari like cult vehicle, king of the road, niche vehicle... It amuses me to no end.
Its just a way of justifying it low sales, thats it!

I will tell you why Safari is a cult car and why it sells less than other UVs of the segment:

1. Safari has very bad turning radius.

2. Safari is a behemoth, very hard to drive and park in cities.

3. Lot of niggles.

4. Primary a 5 seater, does not sell as taxi.

So its quite clear that Safari is not a very practicle car like scorpio and never will sell like one, but still its a cult car because "people buy it with their heart rather than head", apart from that it has huge fan following and that is why we see Safaris all around even when people like you wrote its obituary 9 yrs ago when scorpio came. I will rest my case here.



Thar is indeed a niche or cult vehicle

really

 

[AMG]

@ Xover

How old are you? 12?

And also, personal attacks and allegations of bias against a former moderator of the forum will not get you a long way here.

 

[jayadev]

@xover,
I think you are moving on a philosophical side with no end.
It is very much known Tata sales is not upto that of mahindra yet in respective segments.
Scorpio outsells Safari.
Bolero and xylo outsells sumo and victa.
Logan aka verito is gradualy replacing Indicas.
It is the truth I find on Indian roads.

Now what we can see with in daytime needs no source of info and controversies.

tata is definitely poor in many departments.

And also, personal attacks and allegations of bias against a former moderator of the forum will not get you a long way here.

That sounds like a threatening but I sense bit of humour too. I believe it is free forum ..much liberal .

 

[AMG]

Well, that was neither threatening, and had absolutely no humour.

And I believe I am in no position to tell anyone anything.

It was just friendly advice.

 

[mastersquall]

For me, anyone calling a safari a cult car (because it is a 5 seater) is insanely insane! LOL, I have heard these various adjectives for the safari like cult vehicle, king of the road, niche vehicle... It amuses me to no end.

what do you mean . So what scorpio sells not because of look but because of word of reliability which i have seen many personal experience so won't comment . As soon as someone see safari only one thing comes to his mind i need to buy it not just because of its price is less ETC stuff just because owner get attracted toward it . this why it is said safari is chosen by heart and scorpio by brain .

if i misunderstood then i am very sorry but do explain me

 

[S Class]

This one should also be considered as a criteria for overall fineness of a product.FE.

it is dfficult to churn out huge power and great FE. where tata did excel for global standards.

But when we are in a debate we try to put things bit sarcastically.

How good can be a an engine which is good to drive but fuel thirsty Vs sober to drive but efficient. obviously most of us even myself will pickup the "good to drive" one.

That is what Mahindra gave to Indian which is not so appreciable IMO.
more mahindra scorpios and Innova are seen on the road as Taxi but people dont buy Tata cars due to Taxi Image..sounds hypocracy.

I do agree on one thing definitely, when it comes to marketing tata is like "ayaa ram gaya ram" .I never seen Sales and marketing in sync when it comes to Tata that is where they always failed.

but mahindra is more proffessional with better form earning good reputations.

+1.

Because I have never felt the braking of Scorpio mHawk to be hopeless. Yes, the older Scorpios did have a braking problem but there is no difference in the braking of a scorpio 2.2 or safari 2.2!

Which SUV has good handling? Safari has?

Safari inspired more driving confidence than Scorpio.

Sadly, Mahindra has just mentioned they have cleared the test without mentioning the ratings. Cant help it.

This means they must have got POOR STAR RATINGS, else why hide it ?

Of course. Maruti 800 was the best car of its times, any doubts?

. By this logic, Bajaj Chetak scooter was better than Bullet !!

Did 9 wagon Rs catch fire within weeks of its delivery, all together?

No, it did not. However, a Swift Dezire did in last month in Mumbai. Here is the link:-

Maruti Swift Dzire catches fire at Kanjurmarg - Mumbai - DNA

No, but thanks buddy. I dont want to learn from someone who is posting incorrect info.

Fine, topic closed for me.

Fortuner is a proper off roader with full time 4WD & low ratio & lockable differential. you are saying Aria is an offroader?

Issue was not off-road or on-road, the issue was MONOCOQUE CHASSIS. Please don't deviate the reasons for the statements.

Xylo was a failure?

Yes. Just because it sold more than Grande, doesn't make it success.

Fact is Xylo tried to compete not with Grande but Innova & failed.

So if safari is not a flop, how come xylo, which sells almost 3 times, can be considered a FLOP?

If sales is the benchmark, then alto is a success while Audi A4 is failure, right ?

LOL, you expect these niche cars to sell in volumes? tell me, to which cars did you compare the classic & thar with? who are the competitors?

OK, so when it is poor sales of M & M, it is niche but same logic is not applied to Aria. Why ?

Thar - 1366 units
Gypsy - 258 units

One is petrol & other is diesel. Let Maruti launch Gypsy with diesel engine, it will beat Thar hands down.

Genio is just launched, how did you conclude it failed in comparison to a product which is in the market for 10 years?

And XUV 500 is younger than Genio, still it is called a HIT. Why not have same logic for Genio & XUV then ?

When poor M & M bookings - It is new...take time,
Poor bookings by others - Flop,
XUV gets good bookings - Hit.

BTW, 207 should be compared with mahindra pik up & not genio. Mahindra pik up easily outsells 207 !!!

Yes, other cos products should be compared with only those M & M goods which sell more, right ?

Would you have said the same if the review was in favour of Aria?

Issue is not on whose result it is, the reader is best to judge it.
Issue is WHY WAS ARIA NOT INCLUDED AT ALL, result in secondary.

 

[AMG]

what do you mean . So what scorpio sells not because of look but because of word of reliability which i have seen many personal experience so won't comment . As soon as someone see safari only one thing comes to his mind i need to buy it not just because of its price is less ETC stuff just because owner get attracted toward it . this why it is said safari is chosen by heart and scorpio by brain .

if i misunderstood then i am very sorry but do explain me

What he means is that it is not fair to call Safari as a cult car, and Scorpio as a SUV.
They are both competitors.

I havent seen anyone who says I will buy a Safari, and not a Scorpio, because Safari is a cult car.

And everyone who considers Safari considers the Scorpio and vice-versa.
(Xover being an exception, though)

 

[jayadev]

If I wanted to choose,It would be safari.It has till has got an elegance even in name itself. I will never take Scorpio even for dirt cheap price, stingy it sounds and stingy it looks to me.

Initially people tried to replace thier Safaris with Scorpio but it failed. that is true. Scorpio seriously failed to provide luxurious comfort of ride as safari can.
but scorpio was picked up by "enthusiast" type of people.

If I want to buy an Offroader It would be "Thar" ,no doubt about it. Nothing can beat Thar.mahindra has got excellent appeal in Rigidity.

again It would be Aria in Muv. Xuv dint make it as graceful as Aria.I am sure Xuv will hover in and around like a scorpio successor wont interfere with Aria "kind" likers.

yeah , good sales will be expected as mahindra has good reputation for "word of mouth". where in India people find it difficult to distinguish between Maruthi versa and toyota innova.

yeah I know a personally , whom troubled me continuesly for 1.5 years deciding toyota innova or Tavera; finally bought Maruthi versa "lot of money saved"