Hyundai Grand i10 & Xcent: Technical Problems & Solutions
- Thread Starter furious_driver
- Start date
Guys, i am also planning to fit reverse cam on my Grand. Which setup you all have and what is the cost for it. Did i need to get it installed from HASS?
I am looking for separate display rather than changing OEM IRVM.
Mods, please move this post to appropriate thread if needed.
I am looking for separate display rather than changing OEM IRVM.
Mods, please move this post to appropriate thread if needed.
@GrandRk If you have head unit with screen, you can use the video in to connect to the reverse camera. Decent HD Night vision camera costs around 1000 to 2000. If not, you can buy either HU with audio video (starts from 6,000) or Dashboard screen alone (costs 2000). IRVM cam screen is not recommended.
I have Blaupunkt San Diego 530 with MapMyIndia Navigation. It is plug and play and easy to install. My reverse cam is some unknown brand but works well. The whole setup -excluding speakers- costs 24,000 with 3rd party installation . HASS installation is costly.
I have Blaupunkt San Diego 530 with MapMyIndia Navigation. It is plug and play and easy to install. My reverse cam is some unknown brand but works well. The whole setup -excluding speakers- costs 24,000 with 3rd party installation . HASS installation is costly.
Strange, I've been driving Xcent since past 13 Months, and never faced any issues so far ! Just few days back i went to Nainital from Vadodara, with 5 people, Boot Full, and didn't faced any issues likes stalling or losing power on hills.
Hi nitinmehta, that's the key. Have you managed to take the RPM above this 2.5k in second gear on incline, by flooring the accelerator ? On flat roads, it does for me but not on inclines. 2500 RPM is the maximum it will reach in 2nd gear. At this RPM, engine has not reached its power band yet. It will just not respond for me for acceleration. Mall ramps are just too short to try this out. It has to be like double lane state highways in high range areas which runs close to 300-500 meters continuous stretch of climb.
What it equates to for me is, when the RPM is around 2.5k in 2nd gear on incline the car might be steadily climbing at probably about 20 Km/Hr. But I cannot accelerate in the same gear, how much ever you provide accelerator. To get an acceleration on incline, I would need to down shift to 1st. But the catch is that at this speed where you already are in, downshift to 1st gear will not be smooth. This is the exact problem Mr. Jairaj complained of in his i20. All other cars that I have driven (including my prior generation i10) does not warrant a downshift to 1st to accelerate. It's second gear lets me to revv. up the engine on incline and get going to an acceptable speed.
For auto transmission, the driver will probably not notice this odd behaviour and will be a smooth ride.
Hi swadesh, I too have been to Kodaikanal, and did some odd routes just to check on this behaviour. It is not that the car cannot climb it. Put it on first gear, and it's peppier or may be better than other cars. But it does not drive the way I am accustomed to in all other cars. For those who complain, I can exactly relate my experience with theirs. By now, I've covered almost 6500 KM in this Xcent in about 5 months of ownership.
I'm talking of a regular scenario that I bump into in my normal weekend drives. We have two lane tight state highways and many of them do have long stretches of continuous and perceivable but gradual gradients. If no-one else is there on the road and if you wanted to keep a steady pace of about 70 Km/Hr in this route you may mostly have to be on 4th gear to have a commanding power, and occasional shifts to 3rd gear to keep the same momentum. Now that part is ok.
Think, you've been keeping a steady pace of say 60 Km/Hr and quite a few vehicles at the same pace tailing and ahead of you in convoy. None wants to overtake as all maintain sane and safe speeds affordable in this highway. Suddenly at the head, you find a fully loaded Leyland struggling to climb at snail's pace. This is single lane highway, and everybody slows down and eagerly waits to get a clearance to overtake. Think, by now everyone shifts down to 2nd gear and waits for an opportunity to sprint ahead of that lorry . At this time, the speeds are of about 20 Km/Hr and you may have to follow along like this for a good few minutes to get the clearance from the oncoming lane. This is comfortably tackled in 2nd gear, but now you get clearance. Every body stamps on accelerator, and every body picks up speed and moves ahead, but Xcent will not. That's about my car, I know Jairaj's i20 also doesn't move - His experience is ditto that I face. Now, the vehicles at the back sees that cars ahead of me have moved out, there is a large gap in front of me to the lorry and I hear honks behind me. That definitely means, rest of the people whoever is riding various brands of car also thinks I am dumb. You don't get long time window of clearance to overtake safely. The roads are not just gradient, they twist and turn too. That's the moment I wish everyone had Xcent. By now I have lost precious few seconds which is enough to irritate people behind me, and I desperately try to push it to 1st gear now to gain acceleration and that's an uncomfortable jerk. Because at that speed (20+ Km/Hr), you cannot push it down to 1st just like that. But without shifting it to first, you can't accelerate either.
The only way I tackle this is, while I follow these vehicles in an intend to overtake I would shift early to first gear smoothly at a right opportunity and be in that gear all along. It may take a couple of minutes until I get clearance and I am actually riding on 1st gear. While this strategy works well, my question is that why only in this car I have to do it so.
So practically, I have to train my mind to think on incline this way
Xcent => Other cars
================
1st == 1st (To set the car moving from standstill, In Xcent, I have to be careful on clutch slip - otherwise it may stall on unexpected resistance)
1st == 2nd (Oops, I'm missing a useful gear for acceleration on incline)
2nd == 2nd
2nd == 3rd (Yeah, certain overtaking manoeuvres at speed need me to be in 2nd in Xcent)
3rd == 3rd
4th == 3rd (+ve, this car tackles some 4th gear accelerations, which other cars need down shift to 3rd.)
4th == 4th
5th == 5th
This is what I think technically is called 'taller gearing', experts can comment. While you go from 1-2-3-4-5 sequence this is ok, but down shift to 1st is always jerky in all cars. In this one, there is a condition which certainly warrants it. In other cars, 2nd gear is practically powered enough.
This gearing might be helping on city mileage improvement. But well-known cars for mileage does it better without this weird behaviour. Initially I thought there is something wrong with my car, but now I've confirmed this is how this car is made. Riding on 1st gear certainly keeps the engine on boil and power at tap, but then you lose mileage. If this whole design was to extract mileage, I don't have a benefit in such conditions. My old i10 never had a good mileage, but it could be driven without such fuss. Here I have to do such alternate style of driving, and end up without any benefits the vehicle had to offer on the first hand in terms of mileage in my usage pattern. I usually have only such longer drives and very less of traffic clogged daily drives.
What it equates to for me is, when the RPM is around 2.5k in 2nd gear on incline the car might be steadily climbing at probably about 20 Km/Hr. But I cannot accelerate in the same gear, how much ever you provide accelerator. To get an acceleration on incline, I would need to down shift to 1st. But the catch is that at this speed where you already are in, downshift to 1st gear will not be smooth. This is the exact problem Mr. Jairaj complained of in his i20. All other cars that I have driven (including my prior generation i10) does not warrant a downshift to 1st to accelerate. It's second gear lets me to revv. up the engine on incline and get going to an acceptable speed.
For auto transmission, the driver will probably not notice this odd behaviour and will be a smooth ride.
Hi swadesh, I too have been to Kodaikanal, and did some odd routes just to check on this behaviour. It is not that the car cannot climb it. Put it on first gear, and it's peppier or may be better than other cars. But it does not drive the way I am accustomed to in all other cars. For those who complain, I can exactly relate my experience with theirs. By now, I've covered almost 6500 KM in this Xcent in about 5 months of ownership.
I'm talking of a regular scenario that I bump into in my normal weekend drives. We have two lane tight state highways and many of them do have long stretches of continuous and perceivable but gradual gradients. If no-one else is there on the road and if you wanted to keep a steady pace of about 70 Km/Hr in this route you may mostly have to be on 4th gear to have a commanding power, and occasional shifts to 3rd gear to keep the same momentum. Now that part is ok.
Think, you've been keeping a steady pace of say 60 Km/Hr and quite a few vehicles at the same pace tailing and ahead of you in convoy. None wants to overtake as all maintain sane and safe speeds affordable in this highway. Suddenly at the head, you find a fully loaded Leyland struggling to climb at snail's pace. This is single lane highway, and everybody slows down and eagerly waits to get a clearance to overtake. Think, by now everyone shifts down to 2nd gear and waits for an opportunity to sprint ahead of that lorry . At this time, the speeds are of about 20 Km/Hr and you may have to follow along like this for a good few minutes to get the clearance from the oncoming lane. This is comfortably tackled in 2nd gear, but now you get clearance. Every body stamps on accelerator, and every body picks up speed and moves ahead, but Xcent will not. That's about my car, I know Jairaj's i20 also doesn't move - His experience is ditto that I face. Now, the vehicles at the back sees that cars ahead of me have moved out, there is a large gap in front of me to the lorry and I hear honks behind me. That definitely means, rest of the people whoever is riding various brands of car also thinks I am dumb. You don't get long time window of clearance to overtake safely. The roads are not just gradient, they twist and turn too. That's the moment I wish everyone had Xcent. By now I have lost precious few seconds which is enough to irritate people behind me, and I desperately try to push it to 1st gear now to gain acceleration and that's an uncomfortable jerk. Because at that speed (20+ Km/Hr), you cannot push it down to 1st just like that. But without shifting it to first, you can't accelerate either.
The only way I tackle this is, while I follow these vehicles in an intend to overtake I would shift early to first gear smoothly at a right opportunity and be in that gear all along. It may take a couple of minutes until I get clearance and I am actually riding on 1st gear. While this strategy works well, my question is that why only in this car I have to do it so.
So practically, I have to train my mind to think on incline this way
Xcent => Other cars
================
1st == 1st (To set the car moving from standstill, In Xcent, I have to be careful on clutch slip - otherwise it may stall on unexpected resistance)
1st == 2nd (Oops, I'm missing a useful gear for acceleration on incline)
2nd == 2nd
2nd == 3rd (Yeah, certain overtaking manoeuvres at speed need me to be in 2nd in Xcent)
3rd == 3rd
4th == 3rd (+ve, this car tackles some 4th gear accelerations, which other cars need down shift to 3rd.)
4th == 4th
5th == 5th
This is what I think technically is called 'taller gearing', experts can comment. While you go from 1-2-3-4-5 sequence this is ok, but down shift to 1st is always jerky in all cars. In this one, there is a condition which certainly warrants it. In other cars, 2nd gear is practically powered enough.
This gearing might be helping on city mileage improvement. But well-known cars for mileage does it better without this weird behaviour. Initially I thought there is something wrong with my car, but now I've confirmed this is how this car is made. Riding on 1st gear certainly keeps the engine on boil and power at tap, but then you lose mileage. If this whole design was to extract mileage, I don't have a benefit in such conditions. My old i10 never had a good mileage, but it could be driven without such fuss. Here I have to do such alternate style of driving, and end up without any benefits the vehicle had to offer on the first hand in terms of mileage in my usage pattern. I usually have only such longer drives and very less of traffic clogged daily drives.
Thread Starter
#127
@roby.thomas - No point in yelling at Hyundai. Better get used to it!![[;)]](https://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/images/smilies/Wink.gif "Wink [;)]")
I'm in process of buying my car and getting an used Corolla. So hope things will be okay for me!![[:D]](https://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/images/smilies/Big%20Smile.gif "Big Smile [:D]")
I'm in process of buying my car and getting an used Corolla. So hope things will be okay for me!
Dear Roby,
You have projected our issue very nicely. I am not a technical person, but somewhere in my mind i think ECU needs to be remapped because this is what i read on Tune-O-Tronics website.
ECU remapping is the modern term replacing that of 'chip-tuning', although the term chip-tuning is still widely used. Chip-tuning or 'chipping' refers to the actual process of physically modifying the ECU chip which was required before the year 2000 and before all cars were fitted with a standardized OBD port. From the year 2000, car engines are able to be tuned by accessing the ECU remotely. This safer and more effective form of tuning is what we advocate.
We do not alter any hardware in your vehicle as all modern vehicles have an ECU. The ECU is a computer controlled device which can be accessed via the on-board diagnostics port (OBD) in the vehicle. The ECU controls many processes such as ignition timing, how much fuel and air are mixed together, when the turbo initiates, etc. These settings are stored as maps within the ECU. Here at T-O-T, we will access your vehicle’s ECU via the OBD port. The OBD port (On-Board Diagnostics) is essentially a plug in the vehicle which can be connected to which has a self-diagnostic and reporting capability. The OBD port enables the vehicle owner or vehicle technician to access information relating to the health state of various vehicle sub-systems. For vehicles where ECU data cannot be accessed via the OBD port, we will access data from your ECU's EEPROM directly.
With our high-tech software, we will analyze the maps that are already stored on the ECU. A number of different files (maps) within the engine control unit are tweaked in accordance to the tune you’ve chosen. Typically, tweaks are made to the Air Fuel Ratio / Turbo pressure / Turbo threshold / Turbo limiters / Turbo Injection Control / Fuel injection / Start of Injection / RPM load / Operative map / Rail Pressure control / Smoke threshold / Exhaust gas recycling control / Fuel Pump and Injector Duty Cycle maps - to name a few.
We will then re-flash the ECU with the new optimized maps. Your vehicle can be re-mapped in 3 - 4 hours, depending on the ECU. If at any time you wish to return your vehicle ECU to its original factory settings, this can be done as we always keep a copy of your original maps from your ECU.
Each remap we provide is customized to your specific vehicle's software in the ECU in your car. The existing software is first downloaded, reworked, and flashed back to your ECU.
All control unit tests and modules outside these specific maps remain untouched, and your car will continue to pass emissions, and pass all on board diagnostic tests.
How does remapping provide additional power?
The fact remains that no manufacturer will enable you with the full power output of your modern engine for various reasons. On the commercial front, this enables manufacturers to up-sell vehicle models which have a higher brake horse power (BHP) output, even though the engine may be identical to the lower BHP model.
Remapping your engine unlocks its full potential and allows the engine to perform as was originally designed. We enable you to harness the extra performance that manufacturers left on the table.
Waiting for your opinion.
Jairaj
jairaj.kale@mca.gov.in
9029077077
You have projected our issue very nicely. I am not a technical person, but somewhere in my mind i think ECU needs to be remapped because this is what i read on Tune-O-Tronics website.
ECU remapping is the modern term replacing that of 'chip-tuning', although the term chip-tuning is still widely used. Chip-tuning or 'chipping' refers to the actual process of physically modifying the ECU chip which was required before the year 2000 and before all cars were fitted with a standardized OBD port. From the year 2000, car engines are able to be tuned by accessing the ECU remotely. This safer and more effective form of tuning is what we advocate.
We do not alter any hardware in your vehicle as all modern vehicles have an ECU. The ECU is a computer controlled device which can be accessed via the on-board diagnostics port (OBD) in the vehicle. The ECU controls many processes such as ignition timing, how much fuel and air are mixed together, when the turbo initiates, etc. These settings are stored as maps within the ECU. Here at T-O-T, we will access your vehicle’s ECU via the OBD port. The OBD port (On-Board Diagnostics) is essentially a plug in the vehicle which can be connected to which has a self-diagnostic and reporting capability. The OBD port enables the vehicle owner or vehicle technician to access information relating to the health state of various vehicle sub-systems. For vehicles where ECU data cannot be accessed via the OBD port, we will access data from your ECU's EEPROM directly.
We will then re-flash the ECU with the new optimized maps. Your vehicle can be re-mapped in 3 - 4 hours, depending on the ECU. If at any time you wish to return your vehicle ECU to its original factory settings, this can be done as we always keep a copy of your original maps from your ECU.
Each remap we provide is customized to your specific vehicle's software in the ECU in your car. The existing software is first downloaded, reworked, and flashed back to your ECU.
All control unit tests and modules outside these specific maps remain untouched, and your car will continue to pass emissions, and pass all on board diagnostic tests.
The fact remains that no manufacturer will enable you with the full power output of your modern engine for various reasons. On the commercial front, this enables manufacturers to up-sell vehicle models which have a higher brake horse power (BHP) output, even though the engine may be identical to the lower BHP model.
Remapping your engine unlocks its full potential and allows the engine to perform as was originally designed. We enable you to harness the extra performance that manufacturers left on the table.
Waiting for your opinion.
Jairaj
jairaj.kale@mca.gov.in
9029077077
Thread Starter
#129
@jairajkale
Dude, I appreciate your effort, but no need to put the whole wall of text. Linking will be enough. BTW if you manage to get it re-mapped, do post the information here. It will be helpful for all of us here. And for long, I've been thinking about it,but afraid that it'll bust the warranty.
Dude, I appreciate your effort, but no need to put the whole wall of text. Linking will be enough. BTW if you manage to get it re-mapped, do post the information here. It will be helpful for all of us here. And for long, I've been thinking about it,but afraid that it'll bust the warranty.
Mr.Jairaj
You had pointed the solution also correct - ECU remapping.
Check out pete's tuning kit also, as it is one of the standard brands.
In some tuning systems- Individual power allocations and throttle inputs and also other parameters can be set particular fora gear for a range of rpm.Thereby fuel efficiency can also be maintained,only constraint will be the warranty will be affected.
You had pointed the solution also correct - ECU remapping.
Check out pete's tuning kit also, as it is one of the standard brands.
In some tuning systems- Individual power allocations and throttle inputs and also other parameters can be set particular fora gear for a range of rpm.Thereby fuel efficiency can also be maintained,only constraint will be the warranty will be affected.
Well, the traffic pattern follows a Poisson distribution. Assume that you have to drive in 1st gear over 5% of your travel daily. To have any significant difference in fuel consumption between 1st gear driving and 2nd gear driving, you need at least 20% travel in 1st gear, so let's calculate the probability of you driving 20% of your travel in 1st gear: that will be 3.45214*10^-7![[:)]](https://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/images/smilies/Smile.gif "Smile [:)]")
i am waiting for a reply from a technical person. Whether ECU remapping would solve Roby and my problem as mentioned very neatly by Roby.
To drive a car, I haven't been thinking about Poisson distribution . But you do have a point, and the statement that I made is not accurate in that way. It's not being entirely in 1st gear that takes a toll on your mileage. Because of this frustration - my style of driving totally changes. I tend to move my entire pattern of driving on to more aggressive side, pedal to metal and try to extract the maximum from whichever gear you are on. I will try to overtake a relatively fast moving heavy vehicle, to avoid it at a later climb. And I do that at speeds by being on 2nd gear to close tighter gaps, where sedately I would have cruised the entire stretch at 3rd or 4th. So the story of mileage drop is not a simple reason of being in 1st gear.
This driving style change shows up in my mileage perceivably. Something which never came down less than 13 Km/L in Xcent (That was the least, I clocked even 18.74 Km/L on 4-lane highway runs) now shows down to 12.6 Km/L with aggressive driving. My old i10 whether I drove sedately or not, was always around this vicinity. So I don't deny there might be a valuable improvement in Xcent, but the perspective varies. I bought this car not for mileage. I would then have gone to Maruti shop which beats all of these hands down. I expected the least of mileage figures, but I thought the ease of drive-ability was a familiar one. But I got completely wrong on that.
. But you do have a point, and the statement that I made is not accurate in that way. It's not being entirely in 1st gear that takes a toll on your mileage. Because of this frustration - my style of driving totally changes. I tend to move my entire pattern of driving on to more aggressive side, pedal to metal and try to extract the maximum from whichever gear you are on. I will try to overtake a relatively fast moving heavy vehicle, to avoid it at a later climb. And I do that at speeds by being on 2nd gear to close tighter gaps, where sedately I would have cruised the entire stretch at 3rd or 4th. So the story of mileage drop is not a simple reason of being in 1st gear.This driving style change shows up in my mileage perceivably. Something which never came down less than 13 Km/L in Xcent (That was the least, I clocked even 18.74 Km/L on 4-lane highway runs) now shows down to 12.6 Km/L with aggressive driving. My old i10 whether I drove sedately or not, was always around this vicinity. So I don't deny there might be a valuable improvement in Xcent, but the perspective varies. I bought this car not for mileage. I would then have gone to Maruti shop which beats all of these hands down. I expected the least of mileage figures, but I thought the ease of drive-ability was a familiar one. But I got completely wrong on that.
Thread Starter
#134
My mileage has gone for toss these past few weeks! Due to the sluggish second gear, I often find myself shift more than I usually do. And now I am getting around ~12. Even if I take the traffic into consideration, this is still low. I used to get good 14 in city. Oh Hyundai!!!