Failed Cars in India

[raj_5004]

Not selling means flop!

So Yeti is a flop for me!

 

[powerpacked]

Altis diesel is a bestseller in the segment.

Toyota Kirloskar - October 2011 Sales Figures

- Toyota Etios: 3,405
- Toyota Etios Liva: 2,454
- Toyota Innova: 3,411
- Toyota Corolla Altis: 700 (petrol + diesel)
- Toyota Fortuner: 763

Price of Toyota Corolla Altis Diesel OTR Pune
J Diesel 12,97,704
GL Diesel 16,44,222
Technical Specification Toyota Corolla Altis Diesel

Displacement cc 1364
Power (PS@rpm) 88PS @3800rpm
Torque (Nm@rpm) 205Nm @1800rpm
Valve Mechanism SOHC
1.4 SOHC Common Rail (no direct injection) diesel engine and price bracket 13 to 16.5 lks
Failed to understand that Toyota Corolla Altis Diesel represents which segment?

700 units (petrol+diesel) is best seller ?

 

[safire90]

@ madaneeraj

Fiat is the only one responsible for the flop show of Linea, what was the need for them to shod Linea which is a heavy car with puny 1.3 multijet, when they have also got amazing 1.6 multijet in their wings.

SX4 also has the same 1.3MJD. If Fiat plonks 1.6 MJD in Linea, then it will compete with civic as it does in West. The reason that Linea is struggling is more because of the baggage FIAT carries from the past coupled with its "Comparatively" poor A.S.S.

Toyota Kirloskar - October 2011 Sales Figures

- Toyota Corolla Altis: 700 (petrol + diesel)
- Toyota Fortuner: 763

Price of Toyota Corolla Altis Diesel OTR Pune
J Diesel 12,97,704
GL Diesel 16,44,222
Technical Specification Toyota Corolla Altis Diesel

Displacement cc 1364
Power (PS@rpm) 88PS @3800rpm
Torque (Nm@rpm) 205Nm @1800rpm
Valve Mechanism SOHC
1.4 SOHC Common Rail (no direct injection) diesel engine and price bracket 13 to 16.5 lks
Failed to understand that Toyota Corolla Altis Diesel represents which segment?

700 units (petrol+diesel) is best seller ?

You cannot compare Apples to Oranges.
In the C+ segment the sales have been always around this number(around 1000). As far as Altis is concerned it gives the user a package of Comfort + Practicality. You can say a no non-sense car.
It cannot be termed as a flop car.

 

[powerpacked]

Toyota Kirloskar - October 2011 Sales Figures

- Toyota Etios: 3,405
- Toyota Etios Liva: 2,454
- Toyota Innova: 3,411
- Toyota Corolla Altis: 700 (petrol + diesel)
- Toyota Fortuner: 763

Price of Toyota Corolla Altis Diesel OTR Pune
J Diesel 12,97,704
GL Diesel 16,44,222
Technical Specification Toyota Corolla Altis Diesel

Displacement cc 1364
Power (PS@rpm) 88PS @3800rpm
Torque (Nm@rpm) 205Nm @1800rpm
Valve Mechanism SOHC
1.4 SOHC Common Rail (no direct injection) diesel engine and price bracket 13 to 16.5 lks
Failed to understand that Toyota Corolla Altis Diesel represents which segment?

700 units (petrol+diesel) is best seller ?

You cannot compare Apples to Oranges.
In the C+ segment the sales have been always around this number(around 1000). As far as Altis is concerned it gives the user a package of Comfort + Practicality. You can say a no non-sense car.
It cannot be termed as a flop car.

Did I compare Toyota Corolla Altis Diesel with any other car
Only realistic try to find the segment of Altis Diesel
What makes C+ segment here engine no, power no only cost is C+ segment.
Thus Toyota Corolla Altis Diesel should be treated as flop.
P.S. Comfort + Practicality do not have direct measure of unit it is the feeling.

 

[safire90]

Did I compare Toyota Corolla Altis Diesel with any other car
Only realistic try to find the segment of Altis Diesel
What makes C+ segment here engine no, power no only cost is C+ segment.
Thus Toyota Corolla Altis Diesel should be treated as flop.
P.S. Comfort + Practicality do not have direct measure of unit it is the feeling.

When a car is already setting the cash register running for a company then you cannot call it a flop.

(i) In India as per SIAM, segmentation is done on the basis of length of a car. The Executive segment(or formerly C+ segment) is for car whose length are in bracket 4501-4700mm. Corolla Altis lies in this bracket, hence it comes in C+.

(ii) Now if look at in the C+(or the Executive Segment) segment, the sales of cars(for october 2011) are as follows:

Cruze: 732
Civic : 281
Laura : 406
Jetta: 373
Corolla: 700

On seeing this will you still call it a flop?
Moreover if people felt that this car is not worth it because of Engine power they will not buy it.

 

[THE XOVER]

SX4 also has the same 1.3MJD. If Fiat plonks 1.6 MJD in Linea, then it will compete with civic as it does in West. The reason that Linea is struggling is more because of the baggage FIAT carries from the past coupled with its "Comparatively" poor A.S.S.

You have completely missed the point my dear friend, linea competes with civic abroad allright but it also has got 1.9mjd engine.If you look at linea's segment here in India every single competition from Verna to Vento has got 1.6 lt diesel motor.How can linea compete with them with puny 1.3 motor which feels more peppier in a cheper manza.Fiat missed a big point by not launching the 1.6 mjd here in India.As far as baggage of past is concerned fiat can only get rid of it by making driver's delight cars not only by selling underpowered cars here.

As far as SX4 goes, just ask maruti how much they would love to have a 1.6 mjd under its hood, but of course fiat don't assemble that engine so it can't have that, results are SX4 diesel has failed to shake the market like dezire diesel,IMO.

 

[powerpacked]

When a car is already setting the cash register running for a company then you cannot call it a flop.

(i) In India as per SIAM, segmentation is done on the basis of length of a car. The Executive segment(or formerly C+ segment) is for car whose length are in bracket 4501-4700mm. Corolla Altis lies in this bracket, hence it comes in C+.

(ii) Now if look at in the C+(or the Executive Segment) segment, the sales of cars(for october 2011) are as follows:

Cruze: 732
Civic : 281
Laura : 406
Jetta: 373
Corolla: 700

On seeing this will you still call it a flop?
Moreover if people felt that this car is not worth it because of Engine power they will not buy it.

Sure the combination of Toyota Corolla Altis Petrol and diesel putting together can be hit.

But the product which was mentioned here was Toyota Corolla Altis Diesel.

 

[Nuvo]

In addition to XOVER's point, MSIL has been able to tune MJD engine better than Tata & Fiat. With better suited gear ratios, the same 90HO VGT engine feel better in SX-4 than in Linea.

Same hold true for Punto & Swift also.

Besides a low powered engine, fit and finish of Linea is not up to the standard set by competitor. Neither has it been refreshed since launch. So gradually it has gone out of the radar of customer.

 

[powerpacked]

Linea- I feel sad when see the sales numbers. Car deserves better. No doubts that it has got worthy competitors in SX4,City, Verna and now Vento. Seriously doubts FIAT's commitment towards Indian market, or they are busy selling Engines??
Should have begin with bringing in some credibility to the brand. You know customers in 8-10 lac cannot take risk, I would say most of them are upper middle class and would not take a risk. Story could be different if they would have started with a small hatch, fair to say FIAT does not come with a H band.

@ madaneeraj
Fiat is the only one responsible for the flop show of Linea, what was the need for them to shod Linea which is a heavy car with puny 1.3 multijet, when they have also got amazing 1.6 multijet in their wings.

In addition to XOVER's point, MSIL has been able to tune MJD engine better than Tata & Fiat. With better suited gear ratios, the same 90HO VGT engine feel better in SX-4 than in Linea.

Same hold true for Punto & Swift also.

Besides a low powered engine, fit and finish of Linea is not up to the standard set by competitor. Neither has it been refreshed since launch. So gradually it has gone out of the radar of customer.

Please award some points to TATA also by not contributing +ve in sales and services for Fiat cars.

 

[vikaskumar11233]

Hi RSM

See what the people of India see first when they plan to buy a car are its price, mileage, resell value, maintenance, looks etc. The first thing which hits in mind is about the price of cars, if cars has very good features but price is very high so they drop that car and start searching other. Now what happen to Baleno, A-star and other that there were very good option were available in the market and were costing less so people had move there. That's why these cars fail in the Indian market.

 

[madaneeraj]

Fiat is the only one responsible for the flop show of Linea, what was the need for them to shod Linea which is a heavy car with puny 1.3 multijet, when they have also got amazing 1.6 multijet in their wings.

Well using a 1.6 Multijet would have impacted the price of the car-

• 24% excise duty is there and can add 15,000 additional tax on cars above 1.5 Liter engine
  
• 1.3 is produced in India, for 1.6 it has to be imported which would have further attracted import duties (110% i believe)

It would have translated the price to 13 lac+ bracket and in direct competition with Laura, Cruze. Not sure FIAT would have much of a chance in that domain.
In my opinion, FIAT has gone wrong with partnership with TATA. (You won't keep your kids with neighbors who cannot manage their own kins.)
I would say TATA has done well, as I had imagined worse in the manner they sell and manage their own brand . (Exceptions could be there)
FIAT didn't had a great brand image with Premier Padmini's floating around and should have started with small VFM hatch backs, similar to what Nissan is trying to do. Just imagine what wonders a T-JET and 1.6 MJD would have done if existing 1.4 FIRE and 1.3 MJD would have casted a spell of success, and for that VFM hatchback would have helped.(I am not counting Punto here because Linea and Punto came at the same time, and with same engines

Certainly 1.6 MJD would not have converted into huge sales number but it would have polished FIAT's brand. Very much the way Honda and Toyota can reap benefits of brand image. Even an average car from their stable would be a decent success, as the brand is aspirational.
Not 100% sure but Brio is commanding a wait of 3-4 months even without any test drives. (again not sure how much it has to do with Thailand and Japan tragedies)

For me it's end of road for FIAT in India as a car manufacturer. 300 odd Puntos and Lineas is not good enough to keep a manufacturer floating around. I am hopeful they will comeback after 10 years to test their luck and luckily FIAT Taxi's would have been a thing of past. Not a bad thing Though.

 

[vikaskumar11233]

Hi madaneeraj
See I agree with you that it was bad luck of Fiat Linea that it has to face the competition form Laura, Cruze but it also has to face very tough competition form the recently launched skoda rapid and nissan sunny has their price range were also economical and both have good look as compare to linea. Another reason for its failure was its look and it also didn't get the brand image.

 

[Nuvo]

Well using a 1.6 Multijet would have impacted the price of the car-

• 24% excise duty is there and can add 15,000 additional tax on cars above 1.5 Liter engine
  
• 1.3 is produced in India, for 1.6 it has to be imported which would have further attracted import duties (110% i believe)

Buddy, please enlighten me in the duty part. AFAIK, excise duty is applicable for diesel car with engine capacity below 1.5 L + length below 4.0 m.

In that case, Linea being > 4.0 m length is not getting the benefit anyway.

Agree with your 2nd point and to be competitive, Fiat should assemble the 1.6 L engine here in India.

 

[raj_5004]

Aria sales in December - 140 units

Even cheaper 4x2 version has still not helped it. We still cant call it a flop? Or is it enough for the 18 lakh TATA?

 

[Vishwas]

Aria sales in December - 140 units

Even cheaper 4x2 version has still not helped it. We still cant call it a flop? Or is it enough for the 18 lakh TATA?

Yes you can call it now,did not even manage to sell in higher volumes though the XUV bookings were stopped! Hope you got the point