Aspirational Indian Automaker Brand War

[manish09]

Not only NAno dude Please read the concerned previous posts

How can you guys compare brio to a nano
you are comparing 620cc, 2 cylinder to a 1200cc, 4 cylinder. Anybody listening ?!!!

I will try to notice on road from today, no. of sumo and bolero for personal usage

No iam not saying you are wrong , the point is , is the sumo , bolero used as commercial vehicle - YES , are they used very often by families too - YES . Do you prefer them - No , do other prefer them -Yes. So both things are fact , means although the sumo and bolero is used in comerical space and also by many families . Some prefer it as a family car some don't .

 

[Ajay Sreedhar]

Not only NAno dude Please read the concerned previous posts

Yes buddy I have read them. I cant understand whats the problem if somebody prefers sumo or a bolero or a scorpio for city commute. These vehicles may have fulfilled their requirements much better than a hatch does or what a sedan offers for that matter. Nothing wrong in using them for personal travel within the city or highway travel. It is their choice.

But I just dont understand that nano and brio logic

 

[set12]

Why a hatchback (Brio) meant for small urban families being compared to UVs and MUVs? There is no point in comparing popularity of two vehicle which serve very different purposes and are in different price range altogether.

For example Nano's sale of 2000/mo is a failure as its a mass market car (or it was meant to be anyway). However the same 2000/mo sale of a sedan like Vento will be considered quite satisfactory.

PS: Sure if I have a family of only 3-4 person, I will go for a small car. If I have to ferry 6-7 people regularly I will go for a UV

 

[manish09]

Absolutely it is a individual choice, even I have persons in my office coming with XUV500 and Scorpio to office. I like Scorpio personally but sumo and bolero for personal travel i hardly found on the road. Today also while coming back to office i could see good nos. of SUMO but all are with yellow name plates. Have not noticed any bolero but.

Yes buddy I have read them. I cant understand whats the problem if somebody prefers sumo or a bolero or a scorpio for city commute. These vehicles may have fulfilled their requirements much better than a hatch does or what a sedan offers for that matter. Nothing wrong in using them for personal travel within the city or highway travel. It is their choice.

But I just dont understand that nano and brio logic

 

[Raja]

Who buys tata sumo for city commuting . Can't even think off sumo or bolero for city families. You are also very much aware about there usage and who buys this type of vehicle. They are mostly used for taxi purposes by tourist operators.
.

I am not denying that [] but as i said earlier in my post these vehicles are "mostly" used by tour operators and the enterprises / companies for commercial purposes.

I will try to notice on road from today, no. of sumo and bolero for personal usage[

Absolutely it is a individual choice, even I have persons in my office coming with XUV500 and Scorpio to office. I like Scorpio personally but sumo and bolero for personal travel i hardly found on the road. Today also while coming back to office i could see good nos. of SUMO but all are with yellow name plates. Have not noticed any bolero butl].

Brother here are the links on our forum itself members who have bought sumo , bolero for personal use .

http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/f...bolero-zlx-2013-initial-ownership-review.html

http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/voyage-junction/13223-leh-kerala-mahindra-bolero.html

http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/f...14406-tata-sumo-gold-gx-ownership-review.html

You can read the ownership report too , so you can just get a idea of why still some educated people still buy sumo and boleros for their personal use .

Yes you can say that but fact is very few people opt

what you are saying is not a objective fact but a subjective preference which you are free to have and believe too , but it's not a fact . Further if you will go to villages and 3 tier cities you will see boleros and sumos used routinely as personal family cars . They buy car mostly on requirement basis and not brand .

Not trying to prove you wrong here , just trying to explain you that families in cities and 3 tier towns do opt it as a family car . Some buy it because they just like the look of sumo and bolero .

In metro cities they are preferred less I agree with you , but then metro cities don't represent the whole of India right ?

How can you guys compare brio to a nano
you are comparing 620cc, 2 cylinder to a 1200cc, 4 cylinder. Anybody listening ?!!! []

Why a hatchback (Brio) meant for small urban families being compared to UVs and MUVs? There is no point in comparing popularity of two vehicle which serve very different purposes and are in different price range altogether.

For example Nano's sale of 2000/mo is a failure as its a mass market car (or it was meant to be anyway). However the same 2000/mo sale of a sedan like Vento will be considered quite satisfactory

I think he just gave a example of Nano to prove a point that bad sales does not indicate bad car . But what you guys are saying is perfect they can't be compared because they don't come in same class and price range .

 

[manish09]

I totally agree with you and may be you are right , even i am from a small city BHOPAL and now living in a metro. I hope soon i will be watching sumo and boleros with white no. plate.

Brother here are the links on our forum itself members who have bought sumo , bolero for personal use .

http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/f...bolero-zlx-2013-initial-ownership-review.html

http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/voyage-junction/13223-leh-kerala-mahindra-bolero.html

http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/f...14406-tata-sumo-gold-gx-ownership-review.html

You can read the ownership report too , so you can just get a idea of why still some educated people still buy sumo and boleros for their personal use .



what you are saying is not a objective fact but a subjective preference which you are free to have and believe too , but it's not a fact . Further if you will go to villages and 3 tier cities you will see boleros and sumos used routinely as personal family cars . They buy car mostly on requirement basis and not brand .

Not trying to prove you wrong here , just trying to explain you that families in cities and 3 tier towns do opt it as a family car . Some buy it because they just like the look of sumo and bolero .

In metro cities they are preferred less I agree with you , but then metro cities don't represent the whole of India right ?






I think he just gave a example of Nano to prove a point that bad sales does not indicate bad car . But what you guys are saying is perfect they can't be compared because they don't come in same class and price range .

 

[DJ bro]

Checking Out Some Cars

I am slowly starting to review other cars also!
Had visited TATA, Maruti Suzuki, Chevrolet and Renault showrooms a few weeks before!
Today visited Ford, FIAT, Hyundai, Mahindra showrooms!
I wanted to get the feel of each and every car and an idea of each one!
Along with a friend of mine who also has some interest in cars!
Didn't do any official TDs though! (I did not have time)
TATA: Fantastic cars with fantastic space and comfort and value! Just some mechanical and electronic quality issues. But overall, the interior and exterior quality felt leagues ahead of the old Tata! My friend loved the Manza whereas I liked the Aria, which is a ship on wheels and is a real SUV/MUV than the XUV!My friend was astonished to see the space available in the tiny Nano! But the best thing was the Bird's eye view over the tiny 800's from the "King of the road" feel of the Storme!
Chevrolet:All good and spacious but sub standard quality cars except the Beat, Cruze and Captiva! Moreover it was a moment of humor when the sales representative didn't know about the feature called day/night adjustable mirror until I pointed it out! All cars were hardy though!
Maruti Suzuki: Of course you all know it! Value products with good sales and response! But most of the products like the Alto, A-star, Estilo, Swift, etc didn't have enough space at the rear and in the boot! The best cars are WagonR and the LUVly Ertiga!
FIAT: Small showroom with only two cars and two people inside it! Good quality cars, but the Punto was quite disappointing in terms of space and small details! Linea is a better car, though it was also not quite spacious for my height! Brighter cabin and better finish made it feel better than the Punto! But the strength of both cars is the best of all competitors! The dealer is also offering one lakh discount and begging for sales! Wonder why even the Linea has dropped dead in sales!
Mahindra: I personally never liked any Mahindra vehicle (for obvious reasons we know), but today the showroom experience made it even worse! No one attended or welcomed us till we were seated in the 2nd car, the Xylo after the Quanto! Both cars, especially the Xylo is spacious obviously! But the Quanto's second row bench is typically a Tata bus' seat, upright and uncomfortable! The real torture chamber is the area in which the jumpy jump seats of the Quanto are placed! We were a tight fit inside and severely cramped! We immediately jumped out of the Jump seats! The quality of the Xylo and Quanto was crappy! The Passenger Airbag area was weak enough to deploy the airbag by even a mild hit by a playful child! Tata cars were whole lot better! Then we got into the XUV5OO, standing proud of it's immature, ugly design! At first, all materials seemed almost good for the price! But after clear examination, some parts felt obviously cheap, especially the handbrake lever! The plastics felt hollow and weak in most of the areas compared to the Aria! The only things I liked was the AC vents which had a quality feel and the soft Black plastics used (even though it was weak too)! For all the space it has in the 2nd row, there is literally no space in the last row! The Aria and Ertiga has sliding middle row which makes the 3rd row quite usable! Now that is a big design disadvantage! For a car costing 18 lakhs On road for the AWD W8 variant and 16 lakhs for the 2WD W8, the materials are crappy! The Scorpio and Bolero had less space and bad quality! In stark contrast, the Rexton had the best quality! But the 3rd row is a clear joke! Mahindra clearly needs to do a lot of catching up to do!
Ford, Renault and Hyundai continued in next post.
Pics of Mahindra cars:

 

[manojodungat]

Re: Checking Out Some Cars

I am slowly starting to review other cars also!
Had visited TATA, Maruti Suzuki, Chevrolet and Renault showrooms a few weeks before!
Today visited Ford, FIAT, Hyundai, Mahindra showrooms!
I wanted to get the feel of each and every car and an idea of each one!
Along with a friend of mine who also has some interest in cars!
Didn't do any official TDs though! (I did not have time)

Nice coverage
But don't you think, this post deserves a separate and dedicated section ?

Didn't do any official TDs though! (I did not have time)
TATA: Fantastic cars with fantastic space and comfort and value! Just some mechanical and electronic quality issues.

What mechanical and electrical issues did you experience, especially without having done any "official" TD ?

Mahindra: I personally never liked any Mahindra vehicle (for obvious reasons we know),

Who ? Please elaborate.

Ford, Renault and Hyundai continued in next post.

Please do so, but please consider this first.

 

[Raja]

Re: Checking Out Some Cars

@ dj bro
Nice effort brother . And thanks for sharing your views and the write up .
Btw - who are you in the pic ? The guy in the checks shirt ???

 

[DJ bro]

Re: Checking Out Some Cars

who are you in the pic ? The guy in the checks shirt ???

I'm the red shirt!

What mechanical and electrical issues did you experience, especially without having done any "official" TD ?

But I have driven my relatives and friend's vehicles!

Who ? Please elaborate.

Those who consider overall quality and dynamics to be better in their car!

But don't you think, this biased rant of yours deserves a separate and dedicated section ?

This is not a biased review! I am just being vocal about what I got to feel and see! Well sir, how you say this is a biased review? I have pointed out both, the positives and negatives of all!

 

[D.J.D.]

Re: Checking Out Some Cars

Nice review djbro. waiting for the next part

 

[Gurrala74]

Re: Checking Out Some Cars

@DJ Bro, Nice feed back of your experience buddy !! would like to read others which are left

 

[DJ bro]

Re: Checking Out Some Cars

Part 2: Renault, Ford and Hyundai.
Renault: I visited this brand's showroom to see the Duster. We were welcomed and was led to the car. Initial impressions of the exterior was good, the car being butch and macho muscle styled, but some glaring low cost bits like the Alto style door handles and improper rubber beading fitment spoiled it to some extent. Then we got into it and the sales person explained every feature well. The touchscreen system was recently added at that time. But the cabin seemed and felt seriously plain and old to us! Some plastics were cheap, like the lower dashboard and the glovebox and also a cheap metal rod to adjust the driver seat height!. I adjusted the driver seat to my height and checked all ergonomics! Quite good for a French brand, but the clutch felt heavy and the power mirror control is placed under the handbrake! You obviously have to engage the handbrake every time to adjust the mirrors! Overall, the quality felt a lot like the Logan! The rear seat had some space, but not enough if you want to stretch a bit! But the support was good though! The boot was H-U-G-E at more than 550 liters! That said, Renault could have sacrificed some of the boot space for some rear seat space! But one glitch I noticed that I could not get down comfortably from the rear seats as the B pillar interferes severely in the path of your feet. Also, there is no rubber beading on the door frame. Why so much cost cuttings and cheap bits in a 10 lakh car? Then came the real shocker, the sales person gave us the price list and the On road price for the top end 85bhp diesel was 13 lakhs, and 10 lakhs for the bare bones version! Moreover, 14 lakhs for the top end 110bhp diesel! It is a total crap for what you pay! The features are almost at par with the ZDi Ertiga available at around 10 lakhs! But why pay so much price for rear sensors and a touchscreen system (along with too much cost cutting) by sacrificing extra two seats and quality? And also, the Ertiga has got a bigger 730 liter boot with the last row folded! We then got to see the Pulse, which is a good car and quite spacious with lots of equipment! Here also, the clutch felt a bit heavy though. The Fluence is also quite a good car with good amount of equipment and legroom. The rear headroom was not enough though and the quality, though decent, is not upto VW or Skoda. The Duster is the car which I find illogical and a sheer emotional buy "STRICTLY FOR THE EXTERIOR DESIGN"!
Ford: We went to check out the Ecosport. Stunning exterior design and build impressed me a lot! But even though the interiors were stylish, it was quite dark and secluded. Too many blind spots due to thick pillars and high bonnet complemented by a high and long dashboard! But the design and feel of the cabin was superb! All buttons and knobs felt good and the driving position was perfect and seats sporty. My friend too loved it! But the rear seat space was not all too impressive for my height; and the felt quite narrow to seat 3 people. Boot space is almost at par with the Jazz, which is good, considering the 3999mm length, but clearly not enough for an SUV. We couldn't get to see the Ecoboost engine as only the diesel Trend model was in display. This was the car that impressed me most on that day! But this car is for a small family, that needs a sporty car with lots of equipment and limited practicality, but with good ability to tackle bad roads, at 11 lakhs for the top end diesel and 10.2 lakhs for the Ecoboost.
Hyundai: We actually visited two showrooms of Hyundai; first before the launch of the Grand i10 and the second visit yesterday. We got to see the Verna, i10, Eon, Elantra, i20 and the Grand i10. All were well styled and funky, but I found the i10 and i20 a bit old and Eon a bit overstyled. The interior quality of the Verna, Elantra and the Grand i10 were fantastic, with every knob and button perfectly engineered! But the power window buttons felt a bit low quality in contrast to the rest of the cabin. The i20 cabin was good. The Eon's cabin was shocking for the price, but the i10 seriously feels dated in comparison! Space was enough in all cars except the Eon, whereas the Elantra and Verna were the most spacious. The Grand impressed me with is good rear space and boot, despite it's small dimensions. The i20 seats were a bit hard and the rear seat of all cars felt a bit secluded due to the thick C pillars and high rising window lines. The most claustrophobic were the Eon, Elantra and the Verna with their small windows. But all Hyundai cars have fantastic value, though the rear seat design and visibility could be better!
Yet to visit VW, Skoda, Honda and Nissan showrooms!
Will visit all above showrooms again after a new product launch also with a TD if possible!

 

[DJ bro]

Not all cars of all brands are perfect!
I will choose the brand according to the segment, price range, ASS and costs and quality of the cars!
I will choose the Nano, Vista/Polo, Manza/Vento/ upcoming SX4, Ertiga, Xenon, Aria/ Captiva, Jetta, Passat, BMW 3 series, Audi A6, A8, Mercedes GL in their respective segments and price range! It does not matter which brand, most of us buy the cars solely for their purpose or needs or that appeals to him/her!

 

[Simple_car]

Not all cars of all brands are perfect!

Good to know that you acknowledge this.

I will choose the brand according to the segment, price range, ASS and costs and quality of the cars!

Well you say this, and of course you are entitled to look for a car which suits your needs, but given your choices:

I will choose the Nano, Vista/Polo, Manza/Vento/ upcoming SX4, Ertiga, Xenon, Aria/ Captiva, Jetta, Passat, BMW 3 series, Audi A6, A8, Mercedes GL

You clearly give priority for a car which has : better 'perceived' interiors, space/versatility, preferable VFM and a neutral suspension character, should be car-like to drive (no matter if it is a SUV or not) and the showrooms/service centers which treat you nicely (not necessarily selling cheap parts/cars/ long lasting parts, but nicely). A car which should do all in one. Which is all right. Since, that's what you want.

What I do not understand is this: clearly you go to great lengths trying to find out the poor interior parts in Mahindra, and not so much in the Tata's. Yeah right! You say that Tata has come a long way, and Mahindra hasn't? Mahindra has different strengths, and so does Tata. You were turned off by the showroom's attitude, and of course the so called 'loose' and poor quality interiors in the car.

- you say Tata car's have some 'minor' electrical and mechanical issues. So, you are willing to put up with failed parts/electronics which can be prohibitively expensive to repair once the car is out of warranty (and thereby nullifying all the savings you had done while purchasing in the first place) rather than car's which come with reliable mechanical's in the first place?

- you loved the interiors of the ecosport, but not that of the Mahindra's? Either you need to re-assess so as to how you are evaluating the interiors of a car OR make it clear in your post, what you look for in the interiors of a car.

- you also are trying to justify time and again, your superior choice (or at least the words you type show that) of buying the ertiga; which clearly most people who bought the duster/terrano twins seem to have blissfully ignored. The duster has the best ride quality, and is very much car-like to drive, with good ground clearance and that is why it sells. Looks are subjective.

- none of the cars which you write on, have been driven by you. That itself shows, that you do not realize or know how to drive a particular car OR you have a very set mind as far as expectations from a car's driving mannerisms are concerned. Would have been nice if you would have clarified this. Every car is different, and has to be driven differently.

Thanks,
Simple_car