Aspirational Indian Automaker Brand War

[nozzlering]

I wish to own a car, which is big, powerful, spacious, comfortable, with turbo diesel engine. I dont need to give second thought, wherever I am going. Reliable. A car which I can afford to buy and maintain. Yes its a SUV. I have owned a hatchback and a sedan. But my heart always goes for a SUV. I hope I own one soon. I would go for ONLY Indian SUV, preferably a Tata.

 

[jagrover]

I wish to own a car, which is big, powerful, spacious, comfortable, with turbo diesel engine. I dont need to give second thought, wherever I am going. Reliable. A car which I can afford to buy and maintain. Yes its a SUV. I have owned a hatchback and a sedan. But my heart always goes for a SUV. I hope I own one soon. I would go for ONLY Indian SUV, preferably a Tata.

The Real SUV Safari Storme..

 

[*SMK*]

I think Nishant has used the right word 'Aspiration'.

I would rather attribute it to 'Impulse purchase' which will ultimately lead to BRAND preference.

in this perspective, my pick is TATA (duly for Old safari 2.2 dicor). never sat on it never driven it but i like it. and when we talk about brand, ads comes along with it, i can watch 'LINES' ad of old safari a million times.

with crappy horizon next ads, they've royally screwed the safari brand image!

 

[DJ bro]

You clearly give priority for a car which has : better 'perceived' interiors, space/versatility, preferable VFM and a neutral suspension character, should be car-like to drive (no matter if it is a SUV or not) and the showrooms/service centers which treat you nicely (not necessarily selling cheap parts/cars/ long lasting parts, but nicely). A car which should do all in one. Which is all right. Since, that's what you want.

What I do not understand is this: clearly you go to great lengths trying to find out the poor interior parts in Mahindra, and not so much in the Tata's. Yeah right! You say that Tata has come a long way, and Mahindra hasn't? Mahindra has different strengths, and so does Tata. You were turned off by the showroom's attitude, and of course the so called 'loose' and poor quality interiors in the car.

- you say Tata car's have some 'minor' electrical and mechanical issues. So, you are willing to put up with failed parts/electronics which can be prohibitively expensive to repair once the car is out of warranty (and thereby nullifying all the savings you had done while purchasing in the first place) rather than car's which come with reliable mechanical's in the first place?

- you loved the interiors of the ecosport, but not that of the Mahindra's? Either you need to re-assess so as to how you are evaluating the interiors of a car OR make it clear in your post, what you look for in the interiors of a car.

- you also are trying to justify time and again, your superior choice (or at least the words you type show that) of buying the ertiga; which clearly most people who bought the duster/terrano twins seem to have blissfully ignored. The duster has the best ride quality, and is very much car-like to drive, with good ground clearance and that is why it sells. Looks are subjective.

- none of the cars which you write on, have been driven by you. That itself shows, that you do not realize or know how to drive a particular car OR you have a very set mind as far as expectations from a car's driving mannerisms are concerned. Would have been nice if you would have clarified this. Every car is different, and has to be driven differently.

I am not distinguishing Mahindra as a bad brand! You may also EASILY notice the difference between the toughness and quality when you sit inside the XUV and the Aria; and where am I justifying my choice? Both Mahindra and Tata have robust, hard wearing brand cars except in electronics and quality niggles that occur frequently. I would say, the interiors of the XUV looks good, but definitely not as tough or robust as the Aria. I have seen electronic niggles in many Tata cars and also heard of a lot in the XUV. I have not driven the XUV and many more cars as I have said I did not do a TD, but I will soon post a review of that too. Well sir, I hope you have the sense of feeling quality in comparing between a Mahindra and a Ford and a Tata! All I am saying is that Tata has to improve their ASS and Mahindra, a lot more in interior quality; both have to improve their reliability in terms of electronics! I cannot do anything if my true points affect your mindset sir!
I have said enough about the Duster: totally disappointing! Hope you will also understand it if you have experienced one. I am comparing the Duster with the Ertiga like I have compared the XUV with the Aria! I also know a lot of people who discarded the Duster because of the interiors and value quotient! I consider a good mix of all good qualities of a good car for a review, I don't know about others sir; and from my heart, my all reviews are neutral and I don't have the need to justify anything!
No hard feelings, cheers!

 

[MrRanger]

there are too many stuffs before choosing a Brand it may be your past experience or cult feeling or brain vs heart.

happy for all brands

 

[manojodungat]

I am very happy that this post of yours found the right section it deserves. I was not interested to post any in this thread as I buy a car not a brand.

This is not a biased review! I am just being vocal about what I got to feel and see! Well sir, how you say this is a biased review?

It is very obvious from your story on a certain brand. When you accepted that you don’t personally like a particular brand, instead of a specific car,

I own an SUV, Mahindra Scorpio which I bought in 2009. Within my budget the one I bought had a better perceived reliability than the only one competition of its, which was a Safari dicor. Does it mean I can go on to say in public that Safari or every car manufactured by Tata Crappy? Every vehicle has its own advantages and its own share of niggles.

Now that I am facing a few issues with my Scorpio, should I go on to generalize that all Mahindras are Crappy?
What is then the difference between a TAIan and an ill-informed and least enthusiastic car owner?
You have already admitted that you haven’t driven a XUV and goes on to generalize on the poor dynamics.

I cannot do anything if my true points affect your mindset sir!

The problem is that the “true thoughts” of yours are just your personal subjective comments unfortunately. Though such subjective comments could be appreciated by many other like minded people, could also invite unpleasant criticisms who think objectively and thus unnecessary arguments which are best avoided, IMO.

BTW, appreciate your effort investing your time and energy to visit all those multiple showrooms and presenting your views here.

 

[DJ bro]

It is very obvious from your story of a certain brand. When you accepted that you don’t personally like a particular brand, instead of a specific car, unfortunately you are openly proved to be biased.

I own an SUV, Mahindra Scorpio which I bought in 2009. Within my budget the one I bought had a better perceived reliability than the only one competition of its, which was a Safari dicor. Does it mean I can go on to say in public that Safari or every car manufactured by Tata Crappy? Every vehicle has its own advantages and its own share of niggles.

Now that I am facing a few issues with my Scorpio, should I go on to generalize that all Mahindras are Crappy?
What is then the difference between a TAIan and an ill-informed and least enthusiastic car owner?
You have already admitted that you haven’t driven a XUV and goes on to generalize on the poor dynamics.

Sir, my review is a general, neutral one and I know that! Accept it if you want to, else just ignore it! Just because you are a Mahindra car owner and you are satisfied with it doesn't mean it is upto the proper standards or even upto other brands. I also never said that Tata cars are perfect and the one you are referring to is the old Safari! How come the quality of a car depends on my personal views? What you say just doesn't makes sense! Yeah, I said I have never driven it, but I have been for a ride in the XUV of a person I know.

 

[Simple_car]

I am not distinguishing Mahindra as a bad brand!

I am well aware of that. You have clearly mentioned that you don't like Mahindra (which is also fine; since I also have my own brand loyalties which btw lie with neither Tata or mahindra).

You may also EASILY notice the difference between the toughness and quality when you sit inside the XUV and the Aria; and where am I justifying my choice?

I don't think you are reading my posts correctly. I said you are (or atleast your style of writing implies it) justifying your choice of your LUV over the duster/terrano twins. I never said that you are justifying your choice b/w XUV and Aria.
And btw, your definition of 'toughness' and 'quality' is not at all correct. I know what you are trying to say when you say that one can EASILY notice the difference b/w the aria and XUV; but I doubt you know it.

Well sir, I hope you have the sense of feeling quality in comparing between a Mahindra and a Ford and a Tata!

I most certainly am aware of that. I can appreciate it even more, since I own or have owned cars from all the above mentioned brands. However, my points still stand. Your definition of 'feeling quality' is different and extremely subjective. I look at cars objectively when buying (which is what I am trying to point out to you. Your statements are subjective).

All I am saying is that Tata has to improve their ASS and Mahindra, a lot more in interior quality; both have to improve their reliability in terms of electronics!

I don't know what made you think that I am not aware of this. I have had my fair share of niggles (and lot's of them) from Tata and Mahindra, both. In fact, my quanto is with the A.S.S. as I type due to some serious problem. I do not generalize just because, I have a particular set of problems OR I have heard from my friends/relatives about problems on the same car. It doesn't work that way (at least with enthusiasts). If I said, that I have faced/heard problems (that too quality related issues) with toyota earlier, would you believe if I said that all Toyota cars are crap?

Tata has a lot more than A.S.S. to improve on. Electronic gremlins are common on both Tata and Mahindra's; yes, and you are correct both have to improve in this area.

I cannot do anything if my true points affect your mindset sir!

Rest assured, you haven't. I hope it is not the other way around.

I don't know about others sir; and from my heart, my all reviews are neutral.

Well you say this, but then you make some statements like this:

I have said enough about the Duster: totally disappointing!

Is this a neutral statement ? [thinking]

Hope you will also understand it if you have experienced one.

And you have driven it? I have it's japanese twin in my extended family, and I do get to drive/ or be driven in it every week.

I am comparing the Duster with the Ertiga like I have compared the XUV with the Aria! I also know a lot of people who discarded the Duster because of the interiors and value quotient!

Compare whichever car you want with anything else, but don't write subjective statements and tell it's not your intentions to do so.

You know a lot of people who discarded the duster because of interiors and value quotient.... I know a lot of people who discarded the ertiga as well (and surprisingly, due to the value quotient). Such statements are not going to get you and me anywhere. These things are subjective. Value is in the eye of the owner (which, again is heavily influenced by his circumstances). I consider the quanto to be VFM; however, the rest of the public doesn't think so, does it?

I consider a good mix of all good qualities of a good car for a review, I don't know about others sir; and from my heart, my all reviews are neutral and I don't have the need to justify anything!

You shouldn't feel the need to justify YOUR CHOICES to anyone. Of course!
But, when you make such frankly biased statements, there will be people who will ask questions. If you say that your reviews are neutral, then you will justify your statements; else, your statements hold no value.

No hard feelings, cheers!

None at all.

Thanks,
Simple_car

 

[DJ bro]

You see, why should I be biased? and why should I post biased reviews? I am just being vocal about what is there! Well, leave it if you can't understand my statements! A lot people have bought the Duster or XUV, but I am never against them! They can buy whatever they want and don't have the need to ask anyone! I am just giving some general points, that how it feels like. What do you expect sir, that I should say that Mahindra cars are fantastic and Awesome? Everyone's opinions change and only Mahindra or Renault owners will find it hard to bear my statements! Sometimes truth is bitter sir!

 

[Simple_car]

You see, why should I be biased? and why should I post biased reviews?

Your statements clearly prove otherwise.

I am just being vocal about what is there! Well, leave it if you can't understand my statements!

No. You are vocal about your own views, which are highly subjective; still refusing to put in neutral views (which would have been fine; but for your repeated claims stating that you are neutral).

A lot people have bought the Duster or XUV, but I am never against them! They can buy whatever they want and don't have the need to ask anyone!

I am sure you aren't against any of the XUV or Duster owners. Of course, no one cares about your or my own opinion.

What do you expect sir, that I should say that Mahindra cars are fantastic and Awesome?

No. I want you to say what you are claiming to write. Neutral reviews. That's it. And btw, I don't find Mahindra cars to be awesome. They just seem to fit the criteria I am looking out for in a car at this juncture, with no better options. I have always found Tata cars appealing to me more. However, I wouldn't want to own one right now, albeit for different reasons you may think about.

Everyone's opinions change and only Mahindra or Renault owners will find it hard to bear my statements! Sometimes truth is bitter sir!

Everybody's opinion change except for yours. Your statements would lead any reader to believe that everybody's criteria for buying/selecting the car is similar to your own. That is not what you call 'neutral' reviews.

Everybody has some degree of brand loyalty, and I don't see why not. Any sane reader will know that you are purely posting personal subjective views, and not objective views. If you had clarified this before, this stupid rambles wouldn't have happened.

And not just Mahindra and Renault owners, even the sane Tata/Nissan/VAG/Maruti owners will find your statements hilarious and hard to bear.

Truth is always bitter. Not sometimes.

As an ertiga and a quanto owner, I definitely find your views to be highly biased. As a current ford owner, I find your reviews to be hilarious. And as a ex-Tata owner, I know for a fact that a lot of your views are subjective. Just by your choices in cars, I can make out what is it that you look out in a car. Which is fine, but then you say that your reviews are neutral. Instead of asking people where you are going wrong OR better still instead of arguing with me objectively so as to why your points are correct (which would have been highly appreciated by me), you decide to tell me that you are right and I am wrong, and the truth is bitter.

There is no objectivity in any of your statements, and the members and readers who empathize with you clearly have no idea what objectivity really is.

I hope, for your own sake, you learn to look at car's objectively and appreciate each car for what it really is, instead of making blanket statements saying that such and such car is the best, and all other competitors are just not worth it. You will learn to enjoy driving even more.

Thanks,
Simple_car

 

[DJ bro]

You have the liberty to think anything! Doesn't matter to me sir!

 

[manojodungat]

Sir, my review is a general, neutral one and I know that!

In the past I owned a Tata and now a Mahindra. In the family we have a Maruti Ertiga and a Chevy Beat, currently. In the past we also had a Tata Safari, Ford ikon and a Mahindra Jeep.

Every single car in the list did give us their share of issues. Some of them gave more troubles than others. But every single car has been unique and wonderful in some way or the other and I don't call any one car or brand a "crap". After all, these are machines and I love machines.

Just because you are a Mahindra car owner and you are satisfied with it doesn't mean it is upto the proper standards or even upto other brands

BTW, right now my Scorpio is at the service station for a major problem and I am looking at an initial estimate of around Rs.50,000

the one you are referring to is the old Safari!

I was talking about Safari dicor, which I had stated clearly in my post ,when I was in the market in 2009, for an SUV with a 10-11 Lac budget.

Accept it if you want to, else just ignore it!

This is a public forum where members are allowed to post their views. You are not in a position to ask others whether to reply to or ignore your posts. What you can do is, be neutral and objective especially while comparing or commenting on various vehicles to facilitate healthier discussions.

Cheers

 

[DJ bro]

As I have said before, no car is perfect sir and all cars have some issues for sure! Of course you are allowed to post whatever you want to, but how can you judge whether I am biased or not? I have been neutral since I reviewed the cars and posted it here and I always had in mind that I should be neutral for such reviews, and so are my reviews, irrespective of the cars I like or dislike! Just mere comparisons and pointing out makes you feel that I am biased?

 

[Gurrala74]

I am surprised with discussion here by our few members
-Is a member is not allowed to express his own opinion and experience?
- Is it compulsory to be "objective" on a public forum If so then we could refer the spec sheet of car and buy it, why to have too many opinions from different members on same car ?
- Is it not allowed to write the displeasure about a particular car or brand as few members own those cars ?
I am afraid with this when members liberty to express the views within the forum rules is offended by fellow members. Wish Mods give some clarity on this please

 

[dharmesh]

Yes I agree to Gurrala. Although this is very OT here.

DJ Bro is being subjective in his opinion about a certain brand, but who here is not? We all here have our sets of issues with one brand or others and every one has right to speak out on public platform and that's what forum is all for. He may be right or wrong in what he has written is different perspective and we as senior members should be helping him to point out the mistakes.
Peace.