Why Aria Failed To Take Off But XUV Did??

[Superbad]

Re: Why Aria Failed to Take-off But XUV Did??

Buddy Indian manufacturers are not growing in premium car market because they are still not there.
simple it is,Tata,M&M,Maruti etc make good cars,no doubt.Also their cars are good too.
But when it comes to premium cars,they are still unable to provide the overall product qualities of those foreign companies.
MAYBE BECAUSE THEIR QUALITY STANDARDS AREN'T AS MUCH HIGH AS OF FOREIGN BRANDS.
Take it this way,German cars are praised in Japan too,but since their local manufacturers produce the cars better than those of Germans,hence their local manufacturers are praised there.
In other words:-
If Indian manufacturers provide same levels of quality as of foreigners,then definitely their cars will be bought.


Yeah,you are right those "PHOREN" cars are mostly made in India only.Why?Because if they will be imported then Indians can't buy them.Am I right?
About Badge thing:Guys you agree or not,but its true that right now those Foreign badges enjoy a better reputation.Every Honda or Toyota is always considered better than those Mahindras or Tatas(I haven't said Marutis) and same reflect after even sitting inside their cars.
THEIR PRODUCT QUALITY IS STILL BETTER THAN THAT OF OUR LOCAL MANUFACTURERS.
Dear,when in 1998-99 Toyota entered Indian market,they came with a bread box and then swept away Scorpio,Safari etc.Why?Because their bread box was better than our premium cars.




Even I too find both of those cars very boring.In fact they are boring,no doubt.

but again the problem with us is we are not ready to pay the homegrown manufacturers the premium to provide us the premium product.

one would happily give more than 15 Lakhs on an innova but if a Tata makes even a better car than an innova for 15 Lakhs , how many takers will you find?

case in point : aria 4x2 and the innova.

their pricing is the same albeit the aria will be cheaper OTR. the looks at first the aria looks like an MUV though built as a crossover but check the sales figures and then go figure

 

[TSIVipul]

Re: Why Aria Failed to Take-off But XUV Did??

but again the problem with us is we are not ready to pay the homegrown manufacturers the premium to provide us the premium product.

one would happily give more than 15 Lakhs on an innova but if a Tata makes even a better car than an innova for 15 Lakhs , how many takers will you find?

case in point : aria 4x2 and the innova.

their pricing is the same albeit the aria will be cheaper OTR. the looks at first the aria looks like an MUV though built as a crossover but check the sales figures and then go figure

Buddy,you are absolutely right.People don't become ready to pay high premiums for the premium products of home grown manufacturers.

Since you may be knowing that I am quite short of mind,so let me instead of giving some weird or wacko reasons etc take the help of some examples:-

When Aria was launched,people TDed them and booked them too.But then most of the initial owners found a lot of problems in their car which costs 18 lacs.Am I right?If not then blame Raj for that,each of his post related to Aria has this line.
Result:The car lost its repo.
Innova:Selling for 5 years and is expensive too,but since no one wants his car to spend 180 out of 365 days in service center hence they still buy it and will keep buying it.

XUV came with a bang and looked like a fantastic product,while instead of eating up Innova(Which I always said that never will happen but some members kept arguing with me for that)hasn't been able to take even one sale from Innova.

Okay,if we people aren't paying that much,dear the cars getting exported are bought at good prices.Right?But still then why don't the home grown manufacturers provide better quality in those markets?

Here are a lot more such examples..

In other words GOOD BADGE COMES OUT OF GOOD REPUTATION AND GOOD REPUTATION COMES OUT OF GOOD PRODUCTS...PEOPLE NEVER BUY A BADGE,THEY BUY THE CAR BEHIND THAT BADGE.And that's the reason many times some good badges are also unable to sell..

 

[S Class]

Re: Why Aria Failed to Take-off But XUV Did??

Btw ( by the way ) how have you been means how are you doing

I know BTW but I didn't expect a nice Q in between, so got confused.
Thanks for asking, I am good, thank you.

If such thinking persists among many, our Indian manufacturers will never get an opportunity to grow & India will always be considered as a third rate country.

No offence 'Vivian', I see that you have a TOYOTA Liva & a TOYOTA Altis. So now I understand why you made that comment...

+100

somehow some have got the the idea of "phoren " so inbibed in them they cannot see beyond a badge.

case in point they would buy a "foreign" tee and show it off for its quality, premiumness little they know it was manufactured in our factories in C'garh.

These cars of T are crap as said before. But I can say with confidence that I need not bother about Innova engine for 1.5 L kms with ease. Is there that confidence in case of Tata or M & M vehicles ? And not to forget the quality of materials used. I would opt for Innova over XUV simply because it uses good quality material even if features are less. And it is better not to have some features rather than get Chinese made equipments which often fail.

And it is not the badge but the efforts gone behind the badge making a product how it is.

BTW, even Maruti is now foreign err phoren coz Suzuki has picked majority of the stake.

 

[raj_5004]

Re: Why Aria Failed to Take-off But XUV Did??

Guys, I am not even talking about how reliable a vehicle is or how well built it is or how good the plastics of the dashboard is... All I am saying is, some people unnecessarily associate the 'premium' tag with some phoren brands and ridicule their Indian counterparts.

'Vivian' has a Toyota Liva. I am sorry to say, but I have not seen such a cheaply built car for this price ever in my life. Still he bought it. And then he ridicules Indian brands. Why? Because he drives a "Toyota"!

I had a Scorpio (now sold) as well as the Innova. Never ever I used to drive the Innova when the Scorpio was available. Because I used to enjoy the Scorpio more & I am not ashamed to drive an Indian car nor do I feel that my car is inferior to the other brands, because it is Indian.

People who are comparing the Innova with Scorpio & then complaining about the quality of plastics... please look at the huge price difference between the two models & then compare the goodies, the power & the features. You are paying a huge amount for that "plastic quality" in the Toyota. Will you pay that same amount to Mahindra or TATA? If yes, then why would not our Indian manufacturers give you better plastics? Its simple. Some people, when buying an Indian made car, assume that it has to be cheaper than the phoren brand, else why would they buy an Indian brand... It is because of this mentality that Indian manufacturers are forced to cut costs.

And dear S Class buddy, regarding your comment on the engine of Innova running 1.5 Lac kms, I invite you to my native where I have my Scorpio which has been abused for 2 Lac kms & still running strongly.

 

[jayadev]

Re: Why Aria Failed to Take-off But XUV Did??

engine of Innova running 1.5 Lac kms, I invite you to my native where I have my Scorpio which has been abused for 2 Lac kms & still running strongly.

well said Raj.

some people in the name of some phoren brands spread such wicked logics ...unbelievable..

"country ho to India jaisa (for corruption and atrocities on others at own will),

car ho to German jaisa (to show how rich and fool proof they are),

technology ho to japan jaisa (to show how sensible they are)."

First thing is Indian never trusted any Indian Brands..
I have been victim to the situation , when I return from foreign trips people flocked around me asking for made in japan phone,french perfumes,skotch whisky ,videshi dress materials..
they always frown their eyes when I say come on lets go for a shopping I will buy you whatever you need from our local mall and do not misunderstand me I am not returning from Dubai or such GALAPH countries....nowadays they seems to get me well and do not expect much...

same those people where totally against and ridiculed me buying Indica vista...when it failed twice on road they had a Gala time teasing me.


they never realize that if we keep teasing our own family members it will give a negative impact on overall integrity of the family.

Not to offend anybody or criticizing anybody but i have noticed we tend to take pleasure in teasing some home grown products until end of the world.IMO there should be some sense or some basis for a criticizing .

I do criticize Tata and Mahindra, but in heart I wish they come up....not just remain a corporate goof up.

Glad , one of my young friend in Mechastar (department of Mahindra gearbox design had a promotion for good work)

My younger brother had worked In Tata sales and marketing(Nano ) ,he quite recently just because he couldn't bear abuse from people who do it just for the sake of it.

 

[Raja]

Re: Why Aria Failed to Take-off But XUV Did??

@jaydev
Well said now can you explain me why you keep on bashing tata ? Just because it failed 2 times in the middle of the road ?
What u wrote sometime ago on tata strome thread completely contradicts what you writing here .
This is what you wrote on the strome thread -We all Know Tata and their attitude .

They produce cheap cars with cheap quality products, not vice versa.

 

[jayadev]

Re: Why Aria Failed to Take-off But XUV Did??

@jaydev
Well said now can you explain me why you keep on bashing tata ? Just because it failed 2 times in the middle of the road ?
What u wrote sometime ago on tata strome thread completely contradicts what you writing here .
This is what you wrote on the strome thread -We all Know Tata and their attitude .

They produce cheap cars with cheap quality products, not vice versa.

I don't see nay contradiction.

if Tata can house JLR then why not in rest ?

My car broke down. yes..and I figured out why it did....coz I am tech inclined...and it did broke down not because technology is inferior but the minimalist attitude where they are suppose to provide steel or certain exotic material support they shied off using mold plastics and rubber hoses..

I can not appreciate that at all..!!!

In such cases a guy like me do not de-rate a company or product but kick the A** of of somebody unknown who is responsible and get things right.

I am still Tata's Half customer and happy with it.

 

[Raja]

Re: Why Aria Failed to Take-off But XUV Did??

I don't see nay contradiction.

if Tata can house JLR then why not in rest ?

My car broke down. yes..and I figured out why it did....coz I am tech inclined...and it did broke down not because technology is inferior but the minimalist attitude where they are suppose to provide steel or certain exotic material support they shied off using mold plastics and rubber hoses..

I can not appreciate that at all..!!!

In such cases a guy like me do not de-rate a company or product but kick the A** of of somebody unknown who is responsible and get things right.

I am still Tata's Half customer and happy with it.

Maruti still uses the same components what are used in tata vistas there is something called cost cutting given the price point in which the product sells .is punto and vista priced similar ? Tata infact in vista uses better sheet metal then maruti uses in swift. Swifts rattle a lot it's known as a rattle box so do you have anything to say about their quality ?
So either you say iam Indian and my support to Indian car makers is full and at the same time I also want Indian car makers to improve their craftsman ship and quality so they can really make toyota, Hondas and vws a stiff competition .

And for heavens sake pls don't compare jaguar and land rover with tatas mass cars because then in that case we must expect VW giving us materials in Vento which they use in Audi .

 

[singh890]

Re: Why Aria Failed to Take-off But XUV Did??

And it is quite obvious if we compare jaguar and land rover with tatas mass cars and people want the same material used in those cars then the price for the tatas mass cars will increase as well.

 

[jayadev]

Re: Why Aria Failed to Take-off But XUV Did??

Maruti still uses the same components what are used in tata vistas there is something called cost cutting given the price point in which the product sells .is punto and vista priced similar ? Tata infact in vista uses better sheet metal then maruti uses in swift. Swifts rattle a lot it's known as a rattle box so do you have anything to say about their quality ?
So either you say iam Indian and my support to Indian car makers is full and at the same time I also want Indian car makers to improve their craftsman ship and quality so they can really make toyota, Hondas and vws a stiff competition .

And for heavens sake pls don't compare jaguar and land rover with tatas mass cars because then in that case we must expect VW giving us materials in Vento which they use in Audi .

Elsewhere I saw somebody talking about premium badge thing...my statement was pointing towards that.

BTW , have you owned an Indica vista for one full year ?if you had you will know what I am trying to.

Sure it is hell of a comfort and tireless driving. but when things keep falling on its own ,when you dont feel like pulling door handles fearing it may come off..I bet you wont be their kidding on Tata.

Tata's fit and finsih is incomparable to Maruti suzuki's and that was 2 year old story in my case .. if you doubt my words ask any ICE installers or local Garage wallahs

I think at present Tata has improved a great lot and doing well.


Similar had happened with price to price ,feature to feature comparo of Aria to rest of the competition .

Xuv though at par with Aria in most case still justified at price point...we are all price conscious aren't we ?

and I loved its 6th gear brownie point for XUV.

 

[Raja]

Re: Why Aria Failed to Take-off But XUV Did??

Elsewhere I saw somebody talking about premium badge thing...my statement was pointing towards that.

BTW , have you owned an Indica vista for one full year ?if you had you will know what I am trying to.

Sure it is hell of a comfort and tireless driving. but when things keep falling on its own ,when you dont feel like pulling door handles fearing it may come off..I bet you wont be their kidding on Tata.

Tata's fit and finsih is incomparable to Maruti suzuki's and that was 2 year old story in my case .. if you doubt my words ask any ICE installers or local Garage wallahs

I think at present Tata has improved a great lot and doing well.


Similar had happened with price to price ,feature to feature comparo of Aria to rest of the competition .

Xuv though at par with Aria in most case still justified at price point...we are all price conscious aren't we ?

and I loved its 6th gear brownie point for XUV.

First I never owned any tata or maruti product personally but people in my family do own products from both the companies and all are extremely happy with their respective cars . I myself dint like quality of materials used in safari, Scorpio ( Scorpio is little better in that case ) aria and xuv . What we are saying here is xuv surely won compared to aria in price, style and features in sales . And the aria also scores on many points over the xuv in other areas .

I myself have writeen that why can't tata and mahindra benchmark Toyota in terms of fit and finish and there is nothing wrong in it it's a learning process , when ford can benchmark Audi and merc why can't our Indian car makers .

Regarding Vivian's remark about mass cars from tata and mahindra for budget people I think it was ridiculous and the vista , manza out class the etios and liva by huge huge margin .

 

[TSIVipul]

Re: Why Aria Failed to Take-off But XUV Did??

Who is talking of Etios and Liva.
Although I'd ask a very easy and simple question:-
How many of you people have really driven the Etios/Liva?
In fact how many of you even sat in those cars?

Going by the way of RAJ:-
As per him "People pay in lacs for plastic quality on Innova,but Scorpio gives good power".
Darling,how can you be just one-sided?
Just take the Etios this way.Oops,the game has changed now..
Haha,5-6 lac costing Etios can outrun even a Fiesta 1.6 when it comes to the performance.
And handling-typical 'Toyota',neutral.Neither enthusiastic nor nervous.Just what is needed.FE is best in class and better less said about space comparison.
WHAT YOU PEOPLE HAVE GOT IS A CRAP TALK ABOUT PLASTIC QUALITY,BUT WHEN IT COMES TO OVERALL PACKAGE...half of the people suddenly get vanished from the thread(again it will happen).

Same way Liva offers best in class space and good ride and handling.BTW,how many issues have been reported about these two cars till date?

About diesel variants...hmmm..1.4 D-4D may look weak on paper but have the guts to outrun even a Punto 90 HP too,and not to mention..then advantage of added 150cc.

Price..ah,here I lose the ground to you people..DEFINITELY THESE CARS ARE OVERPRICED.

Coming to Indian Vs Phoren:-
I don't believe in giving any weird logics.What I believe is direct product comparo.
You people compare Scorpio with Innova!!
Not only plastic quality,but Innova offers unmatched ease of driving(DEAR JUST A mHAWK IS NOT ENOUGH FOR GOOD DRIVING EXPERIENCE,SADLY FOR YOU IT IS...AS I HAVE ALREADY MENTIONED:"YOU HAVE GROWN UP INTO A FANBOY AND ARE NOT READY TO ACCEPT WHAT THE TRUTH IS".)And with that ease of driving or driving comfort comes the unmatched comfort for passengers.
Anyone who has doubt on my statement must hire a Scorpio and an Innova and go for a 200 kms long drive just now.(In short drives,even Bolero can also feel comfortable).

About Indian manufacturers:They themselves are responsible for this.They think of "Let's make Scorpio cheaper than Innova and maybe it will outsell it".
And then they make compromises on quality.
If people would believe only phoren brands then why is Swift ruling its segment?
Why is Indica Vista selling more than Liva?
Why Esteem ruled the market?
Why Scorpio sometimes overtake Innova?

ACCEPT IT OR NOT,PEOPLE BUY CAR..NOT THE BADGE..
What makes difference is that the car behind that badge is better....

Last and most important:-
I think we are going too much offtopic.
Let's return back to Aria and XUV thing only.Both are Indian manufacturers and both are homegrown heroes.

 

[Swapnil]

Re: Why Aria Failed to Take-off But XUV Did??

Last and most important:-
I think we are going too much offtopic.
Let's return back to Aria and XUV thing only.Both are Indian manufacturers and both are homegrown heroes.

It is the over pricing of Aria. Pricing of XUV is spot on.
Engine wise, both 2.2L vtt Dicor and Mhawk are proven mills.
Seating wise, Aria is better than XUV.
High Speed handling and stability, Aria better being body on frame build, while maneuverability of XUV is good.
Looks wise, may be, XUV appeals to much due to its over done front.

I find only 2 things- price and Low turbo kick holding back Aria.

How do you find the Force One in these 2?

 

[Raja]

Re: Why Aria Failed to Take-off But XUV Did??

It is the over pricing of Aria. Pricing of XUV is spot on.
Engine wise, both 2.2L vtt Dicor and Mhawk are proven mills.
Seating wise, Aria is better than XUV.
High Speed handling and stability, Aria better being body on frame build, while maneuverability of XUV is good.
Looks wise, may be, XUV appeals to much due to its over done front.

I find only 2 things- price and Low turbo kick holding back Aria.

How do you find the Force One in these 2?

I took a small test drive of force one and in the small test drive I didn't like it . My parameters are not engine alone I want the gear box to be smooth and precise ,clutch travel, ease of using clutch I give importance to them too .
so atleast in my view I dint like the force one maybe it was a badly maintained vehicle but the gears dint slot well It takes too much effort to slot gears and very long and hard clutch .
And then by just paying 60,000 rs more I can get xuv w6 in which i get abs,airbags and almost all features and more or pure model aria much better then force one.
as we say a known devil is better then a unknown devil .

 

[raj_5004]

Re: Why Aria Failed to Take-off But XUV Did??

Regarding Vivian's remark about mass cars from tata and mahindra for budget people I think it was ridiculous and the vista , manza out class the etios and liva by huge huge margin .

Yes, this is all I was talking about.

How many of you people have really driven the Etios/Liva?
In fact how many of you even sat in those cars?

My cousin owns a Etios diesel top end and I guess Liva's interior is similar. He paid more than 9 Lacs on-road for it.

Going by the way of RAJ:-
As per him "People pay in lacs for plastic quality on Innova,but Scorpio gives good power".
Darling,how can you be just one-sided?

Nopes, please dont mis-read my statement.

My point was, Scorpio has poor plastic quality because it is cheaper than the Innova even though it has more power & more features. All this comes at a price & to maintain a lower price tag than the Innova, Mahindra has to cut costs - and they do it by reducing plastic quality. Isn't it better than compromising on plastic quality than compromising on the quality of drivetrain?

Give Mahindra the premium you pay for Toyota - even they can give you the Scorpio with similar plastic quality...

Just take the Etios this way.Oops,the game has changed now..

Same way Liva offers best in class space and good ride and handling.BTW,how many issues have been reported about these two cars till date?

Again, who is saying that the Liva has issues or is not a good performer. But the car is filled with cost cutting measures. The plastic in the Etios is downright cheap and even simple switches like the headlight adjuster or the bonnet release lever belongs to the age of Ambassador. There are other cars in the segment, whose interiors feel much more premium. Still, people say "Toyota" is a premium brand...

Dude, you pay for that brand and that is the reason you get that quality.

About diesel variants...hmmm..1.4 D-4D may look weak on paper but have the guts to outrun even a Punto 90 HP too,and not to mention..then advantage of added 150cc.

The Liva has terrible NVH and zilch features. The ride & handling is average.

Anyways, to avoid getting OT, I would not comment much on the Liva.

Price..ah,here I lose the ground to you people..DEFINITELY THESE CARS ARE OVERPRICED.

That is the main point. We overpay to the phoren companies as they are considered "premium".

Not only plastic quality,but Innova offers unmatched ease of driving(DEAR JUST A mHAWK IS NOT ENOUGH FOR GOOD DRIVING EXPERIENCE,SADLY FOR YOU IT IS...AS I HAVE ALREADY MENTIONED:"YOU HAVE GROWN UP INTO A FANBOY AND ARE NOT READY TO ACCEPT WHAT THE TRUTH IS".)

I have never ever said that Scorpio is a overall better package when compared with the Innova. All I have said is the mHawk is better than D-4D. Regarding my comment in this thread, if you read my comment, all I said was, that I never used to drive the Innova because of Scorpio because I was not ashamed to drive an Indian car (please note 'I' in bold). Where have I said that Scorpio is better than Innova?

And with that ease of driving or driving comfort comes the unmatched comfort for passengers.

Surprisingly, I found the seats of the Scorpio to be much better than that of Innova. Maybe because of my large frame!

ACCEPT IT OR NOT,PEOPLE BUY CAR..NOT THE BADGE..
What makes difference is that the car behind that badge is better....

I dont really accept this statement. Anyways, wont debate on your thinking.

Let's return back to Aria and XUV thing only.Both are Indian manufacturers and both are homegrown heroes.

+10.