Tata Safari Storme Vs Rest of the Competition

[Raja]

I do agree Fortuner is over priced (been personally cribbing about this for a long time now) but comparing it to a part time 4wd vehicle is a bit too much. Storme has much better ride quality - no 2 doubts about it, the fortuner is set up more stiffer and hence dynamically is more competent - not to mention you are driving 4x4 full time giving better handling.

This truck debate for me is not worth the time/effort, also how anyone can factually prove Fortuner is better than Safari offroad is beyond me. I think it does deserve a bit more respect - compare it with the pajero and it will come down as a worthy second place.

To be honest with you , brining fortuner in this comparision is not a good idea . Its 50% priced more then storme .

And if some talks about quality and fit and finish then it becomes a mandatory thing in a 25 lakhs SUV right ? Or else why to pay so much money .

And agree with you its a powerful vehicle I personally like it but it is over priced for what it offers .

You are experienced man when it comes to offroading , just 1 hypothetical situtaion here say if tata gives full time 4x4 in the storme how will it fair then against the fortuner ?

 

[MrRanger]

I do agree Fortuner is over priced (been personally cribbing about this for a long time now) but comparing it to a part time 4wd vehicle is a bit too much. Storme has much better ride quality - no 2 doubts about it, the fortuner is set up more stiffer and hence dynamically is more competent - not to mention you are driving 4x4 full time giving better handling.

This truck debate for me is not worth the time/effort, also how anyone can factually prove Fortuner is better than Safari offroad is beyond me. I think it does deserve a bit more respect - compare it with the pajero and it will come down as a worthy second place.

I dont understand why you want to compare fortuner with PAJERO!!! since it is 20+lac car???? I never find any reason to compare fortuner with PAJERO when it comes to its off road ability. Pajero is already competing with Prado in dubai.
According to me Fortuner is nothing but a show off vehicle, Toyota played a game here. I agree that we indians dont see that as a point but we are just exceptions.

Captiva can be compared to Fortuner.

Trailblazer is coming I hope it will start from 15lac ex. untill then compare fortuner with captiva only.

 

[Raja]

Are you indicating FIAT panda? . Please tell me which car was it?





in Range rover 2013 they didnt ditched BOF completely, point was just to loose some weight to increase its performance. you must be wondering how range rover manage to retain its off road ablity right ? its simple they reduced weight but the suspension mechanizm is totally different it is electromagnetic dynamic suspension tuner, by increasing/decreasing electro magnetic field the suspension of the vehicle is tuned accordingly and hence differnt behaviour on different surface. All this never comes free, the New Range Rover 2013 is costier than old. it starts from 1.8cr ex delhi.

Fact is still Disco/Prado/Rangie/Uncle Pajero/Jeep cherorke all are riding on FRAME only.
Can you Dare Defender with your Rangie!!!! if you do so you spend more time and money in garage than defender.
Hope you get this

And even if vipul is talking about range rover here he is wrong only the latest version 2013 range rover is based on monoqoue . Rest all range rovers were based on BOF

""The Range Rover was a body-on-frame design with a box section ladder type chassis, like the contemporary Series Land Rovers. The Range Rover utilized coil springs as opposed to leaf springs, permanent four-wheel drive, and 4-wheel disc brakes. However, the latest version uses a monocoque body structure."


Range Rover - Find Out The Cars' Origins And MoreDaily News Dig

 

[THE XOVER]

@Vipul

Monocoque SUVs can do as better off-roading as BOF ones.But people(and OEMs) prefer to make real SUVs(more often than not) on ladder chassis because:


1. It's more rugged underneath,so damage vis-a-vis a unibody vehicle is much less also repair bills should be much less.


2. Ladder chassis vehicle have more practical ground clearance over monocoque soft-roaders:

"XUV has 200mm ground clearance where Scorpio has only 180mm,but during extreme off-roading you may find XUV scrapping badly while Scorpio should do the same stuff with aplomb."

"Perhaps since body is placed on top of the chassis gives it extra height(low down) and ruggedness."


3. Most iconic off-roaders are based upon laddere chassis,be it Land Cruiser,Defender or Discovery,earlier Pajero or our Indian legend Tata Safari.


Range Rover is actually more of a show off and it was always based upon ladder chassis.Only now it has got aluminium chassis which is different thing altogether.

Neither bolting or welding is required to construct an aluminium chassis but it's fabricated with the help of rivets.


Another exception like Montero,Grand Vitara etc are not completely monocoque they use hybrid chassis,half BOF amalgamated to the unibody.


As far as the off road prowess of Fortuner is concerned,I haven't said anything yet,but I just wanted to confirm whether IMV platform is full blooded ladder chassis or not?


One thing is sure though,Fortuner is not as capable as good ol' Pajero SFX:

Pajero Vs Fortuner in J&K on OVERDRIVE - YouTube

 

[Iron Rock]

One of southafrican friend explained me once, Heavier distributed mass offroader is way to go. Better gripping due to weight while crawling, Fortuner being based on Pickup truck and much lighter did never performed as good as his Pajero. usually wheels of fortuner would spin and worsen the situation .

This weight vs non weight debate could be an intense one especially for offroaders, in reality what i have realized is what matters largely is the combination your tyres, weight balance, low ratios, torque, all the usual angles , power to weight ratios, differential locking capabilities, wheel articulation, stuff like snorkel, breathers if you are in to fording, transfer box location etc(needless to say a driver in the knowing as well). Offcourse maintenance of all of the above also play in the minds of the buyers.

You are experienced man when it comes to offroading , just 1 hypothetical situtaion here say if tata gives full time 4x4 in the storme how will it fair then against the fortuner ?

Indeed over priced for what it offers, i have nearly booked it twice and then decided against! As i said above in offroad conditions there are a lot of factors, its futile to show a video of a stuck fortuner - we dont know what the real conditions are and who is driving. So tough to reach conclusions.
Technically though the Fortuner can take more abuse as it has a full time 4x4 drive train and also it has more power on tap. But very difficult to compare offroading capabilities head to head unless there are meticulous tests.

Edit :- It might be a good idea to suggest this to Tata as an event!

I dont understand why you want to compare fortuner with PAJERO!!! since it is 20+lac car???? I never find any reason to compare fortuner with PAJERO when it comes to its off road ability. Pajero is already competing with Prado in dubai.
According to me Fortuner is nothing but a show off vehicle, Toyota played a game here. I agree that we indians dont see that as a point but we are just exceptions.

Captiva can be compared to Fortuner.

Trailblazer is coming I hope it will start from 15lac ex. untill then compare fortuner with captiva only.

I am really sorry I might be slow and old school in this matter I dont really understand unless there is good data and explanation. I always like a testable hypothesis.

 

[navnit013]

since we are discussing BOF vs MQ, a few points from me too.

@ Vipul

- Have you seen a Ladder frame chassis? It cant be bent or deformed. If a right amount of load (very very very .....insane amount of) is applied, it cracks.

- And Monocoque chassis is designed in such a way that it deforms under load.

WHY are modern SUVs opting for monocoque? Crash test norms. In a monocoque, the forces acting on the car is distributed around the shell hence protecting the passenger in an event of crash. Better crash ratings. And its light and helps in efficiency and performance.

WHY is new Range Rover a monocoque? RRs like every other manufacturer do extensive research on usage pattern of their product. They have found out that majority of their owners use it for showing off. SO their new product need not be a full blown off roader. The family DNA remains. When the situation arise it can perform to your expectations.

SO WHAT MAKES A BETTER OFF ROADER?

Well a BOF construction can make a better off roader compared to MQ. IF you have been to some high speed off road rallies, you will know how gruesome it can be. Hitting a rocks and boulders can some times be like mini car crash. During that if the chassis deforms, it can be disastrous.

 

[MrRanger]

One thing is sure though,Fortuner is not as capable as good ol' Pajero SFX:

Buddy I watched this video long ago on TV, dont belive this guys, see how well they scripted their review, at the end it seems like they wanted to fail fortuner in front of PAJERO,
yes Pajero is far ahead from fortuner but still fortuner would also complete that terrain in video.

 

[S Class]

On what factors Storme can be actually compared with Fortuner(I think I have asked it second time), one costs 15 lac and one costs 25.

There is something more than price here.
Comparo is taking place here as Fortuner despite being called SUV is not one in realtity. Infact, I have sat in Audi Q7 & feel that it is more of soft roader than off-roader.

Mahindra Thar will perform better than XUV (see both are M&M) in off-roading, & if my purpose is off-roading, why will I buy XUV ?

Same is the case here

On the off-road failure videos, haha...there is a weak link called 'driver' in many cars which can make even a Range Rover fail.

@S-Class:
The video you have posted is a Fortuner 4X2 I guess, why? Look at the front wheel..
If the central differential is locked(like if Fortuner 4X4) then the front wheels will move at any cost, but in this vehicle. Secondly the way driver has pressed on gas itself proves that he is not trying to get the vehicle out, instead he is just making splashes. The simple rule of off-road driving is 'be light but progressive on throttle' but this guy is giving very high throttle inputs.

The vid you posted was wrong comparo, the vid showed Safari & not Storme.
Whenever car of your choice doesn't work, driver fails, right.
OK, if Fortuner fails, driver is bad; if Storme fails, vehicle is bad.

Let us compare Storme to XUV or Scorpy, the vehicles with which it is meant to compete with.

Nice joke.

ACTUALLY THE REAL POINT IS THAT, YOU PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO DEGRADE THE FORTUNER JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN'T PROVE THE STORME A BETTER VEHICLE OVERALL, AND HENCE I REQUEST YOU TO MOVE ON TO OTHER VEHICLES AND LEAVE FORTUNER.

Did you visit DSK Toyota, Pune ? Sit there for 2 days & see Fortuner owners feel their fortune got wasted. :D

^^Buddy point is not that, point is 'why degrade an another vehicle for no reason'?

Nothing can be as degrading as comparing Storme with Scorpio.
The difference between scorp & storme is much more than storme & fortuner.

Any person who has driven a Fortuner can tell what a fantastic vehicle it is(overall), experience the thrust that engine offers, the peppy response and good off-road capability + A GENUINE SEVEN SEATER IT IS(its third row is also best).

I haven't driven Fortuner as steering gets stuck in legs but I have sat in it & it is one of the most bouncy UVs around. And what 3rd row buddy, it is hopeless when compared to Aria. And why compare 3rd row seat with storme as storme is 5 seater & not 7.

Simple question: Why only Storme or Safari owners/ lovers compare it with Fortuner, why don't the Fortuner owners/lovers do?? Simple the reason is, they know what Fortuner actually is.

Correct & they know that Storme is better than Fortuner.
Fortuner sells not because how good this UV is but because of Toyota name & some road side land owners became politicians & promoted this UV, that's all.
If one is spending 25L, I would prefer Pajero or PS over T-Fort, but just because its Mitsu, people avoid it.

Sell Fortuner as Ssangyong Fortuner & see the sales fig.

Yes, Fortuner's brakes lack feel okay, some people say it has 'horrifying' braking..I agree again(not literally though). Still why it is selling despite being a 25 lac costing vehicle? While Safari struggles to cross 1000 per month despite being priced 10-12 lac lower. Those people who have bought the Fortuner out of their money are not fools(one can be, two can be..hundred can be..but not thousands), AS SAID EARLIER..A BETTER VEHICLE(OVERALL) ALWAYS SELL.

When people can compare blackberry with android phones & say android better as it has touchscreen, people will compare T-fort with even hovercraft.

 

[S Class]

Only ride is against Fortuner or maybe some space, rest in all other fields it is leagues ahead of Storme.

Then what else remains ? For rest, buy true off-roader FUV - Tractor. Whether M & M or John Deere is debatable.

Fortuner has to be leagues ahead right ? Or why else is it priced 25 lakhs ? But 1 thing is great storme inspite of being half cheaper then fortuner scores so well in many departments.ride quality , space and comfort .

And if xuv is a muv then as per you it must be compared to Innova ? Or storme ?

+100.

Why will any 1 lose interest in storme ? If they read the thread they will come to know

1) storme has better ride quality then 25 lakhs fortuner .

2) they will know as per our estmeed knowledgeable member that xuv is a muv and not SUV , but storme is a SUV .

3) its is better then Scorpio .

Rather they will get better insights about storme and will have more interest , atleast the poll on our forum suggest this .

Again +100.

It's an MUV as per 'ME' but not as per market and at the end it is the market who decides it all, we can live with our subjective opinions.

If we want to debate based on market perception, we should even bring in Duster, Quanto, Premier Rio & even Ertiga here as they too are SUVs according to market.

it was after storme I realized how arrogantly toyota priced it.

+1.
I don't know why people buy Fortuner for 25L. They can go to chor-bazaar, buy Toyota logo for 150 bucks & stick it on Storme.
Now you have highly reliable UV called Toyota-Storme.

 

[MrRanger]

90ps 90s safari can do it why cant more modern STORME cant do!!!!!!
TATA SAFARI remix :) - YouTube

 

[Theferrarifan]

They buy the fortuner for its road presence,its size and the toyota 'suv' image. I dont think any of these factors are convincing enough for me to buy an outdated overpriced SUV thats based on a pickup truck and has interiors from Innova. Often I see fortuner owners speeding and thinking they own the road. An suv suppose is to be driven everywhere else apart Tarmac. Dont think many of the Fortuner owners actually do it. They drive rash and like a jerk. Why not get a smaller car and do it, at least you will have some control and wont crash while at it(not encouraging rash driving). Plus you will do something for the environment too.

 

[TSIVipul]

This is what December sales figures say:

Safari + Storme: 1374 units.
XUV 5OO: 3566 units.
Scorpio: 3308 units.
Fortuner: 1260 units.

Verdict:

• Some say that in December, sales fell, okay..hence the sales of Scorpio and XUV have fallen. In fact Scorpio has taken the biggest beating as its sales never fallen this much down before this month. But then why the sales of Safari + Storme have risen, that also considerably?? Safari used to hover around 1000 units per month but this month it is around 1400 units(round off 1374 and you get 1400) similarly the sales of Fortuner are also intact between 1200 and 1300 units like it used to be.
  
• Now either the launch of Storme is showing its effect and sales have risen eating up some sales from Scorpio and XUV too else Safari has now started gaining momentum, but yes...it's now easy to spot a new Storme on the road every day.
  
• Direct competition for Storme are Scorpio and XUV(they fit in that price bracket itself) and we can easily notice the rise in the sales of Storme and fall in the sales of other two. IT CAN'T BE SAID THAT IT IS BECAUSE OF DECEMBER MONTH BECAUSE SAFARI HAS RISEN. So can we say that Storme has given a small dent on on the sales of XUV and Scorpio??

* Data source: *****

 

[dharmesh]

That's good news for all Safari + Storme lovers. Although IMO, it won't create a bigger dent on the XUV and Scorpio's sales. But only time will tell us that. It would be interesting to see the Jan 2013 and Feb 2013 sales figures of all the UVS. Then only we can come to conclusion that Storme has really created Storme. Or else it will other car for only Fan Boys from TATA like Safari.

 

[manojodungat]

That's good news for all Safari + Storme lovers. Although IMO, it won't create a bigger dent on the XUV and Scorpio's sales. But only time will tell us that. It would be interesting to see the Jan 2013 and Feb 2013 sales figures of all the UVS. Then only we can come to conclusion that Storme has really created Storme. Or else it will other car for only Fan Boys from TATA like Safari.

Storme is a new launch and expected to have some takers guys

looks like 1000 safari + 374 storme. There should have been those many safari lovers eagerly waiting for the storme launch.Jan sales will give us a clearer picture with the vehicle launched all over india [hopefully]

XUV still going strong just affected by the year end sales decline.It saw an increse of 58% YoY. Scorpio still getting around 3300 takers is commendable considering that there are quite a few options now to choose from.

 

[Raja]

Storme is a new launch and expected to have some takers guys

looks like 1000 safari + 374 storme. There should have been those many safari lovers eagerly waiting for the storme launch.Jan sales will give us a clearer picture with the vehicle launched all over india [hopefully]

XUV still going strong just affected by the year end sales decline.It saw an increse of 58% YoY. Scorpio still getting around 3300 takers is commendable considering that there are quite a few options now to choose from.

How did you come to a conclusion that storme are sold only 374 ? It can be otherway too right that storme sold 1000 ? We simply can't know since tata has not released the figures for storme and safari respectively .

I dont understand why tata has to surpass or be ahead or equal mahindra in sales all the time , and what kind of satisfaction will it give ? Do we buy our respective cars thinking or keeping that criteria in mind ?

I think this contest is made by us more then the car makers by themselves , for them its business tata brought sumo which kicked out mahindra jeeps out of the market , then mahindra brought other products not to kick out tata but to survive in the market and they survived very well .

Here tata has to worry not about mahindra but their image and the market itself which will bring many options later in 2013-2014 which will make things difficult for them overall in passenger cars .

About storme so far we can say all the guys eagerly waiting for the storme bought it , if it also has inspired other neutral buyers looking for a SUV to buy it has to be seen .

But going by the trend tata motors is going I think storme won't be able to create a bigger storme in the market inspite of being a good product .