Mineral or Synthetic Oil?

[Viru]

This definately makes sense.

In my personal opinion Not to hurt anyone:
Also, not sure why need to spend extra time, money and effort searching for engine oils and pouring them into the engines when the dealers themselves are well equipped for that of recommended by OEM. Not sure what we are trying to achieve here. Don't engine life prolongs or doesn't it be clean if we use OEM recommended oils? Do we have data to back that outside oils prolong engine life as compared to OEM recommended oils? Aren't OEM oils are branded?
Previously I had this experience and finally decided to stick to dealer as it is much safer also in many aspects especially if something goes wrong in the engine. It also removes my headache to waste my fuel going to shops that sells the oil, purchasing them with extra money, and asking the dealer to change which the dealers are relunctant about. What is the outside oils are spurious by chance?

The basic reason behind this is similar to the one behind ECU remaps and any other vehicle modification. When any manufacturer defines certain parameters for a car they are based on an approximate image of the usage the vehicle is intended to undergo in it's lifetime.

Because of this it is actually quite logical to use an oil grade that is more suited to the life and usage of your vehicle, to allow you to get the maximum out of it!

If you select an oil carefully, it is highly unlikely that you will do any harm to the internals of the engine. I don't think it's a huge problem to go buy some oil every 10,000 km, especially if you love your car!

It's usually not too difficult to identify spurious oils...

But still you are not aware about 5W-40 thats what I said.
Viru, Instead of being confused why cant you make sure is it true or not.

IMO its better if you could find few more trusted mechs for the better updates


Viru, thats wrong man, no where I said 0W-20 is the best because I dont have experience with 0W-20. Please don't try to script. I'm only responsible for what I said. Things I said about 0W-20 is the details I got from different MASS and also from MARUTI SUZUKI via emails and calls. I have even provided the contact details of them. So I request you to blame me only after contacting them.
Thats a big lie.[ In my previous post what I have quoted is YOUR OWN WORDS blaming on 0W-40, then how can you say you did't say anything about 0W-40?I request you to click on to the quote to get into your post saying about 0W-40.
We human beings use to forget what we said. Seriously no offense bro.

Today Had a visit to POPULAR service center(MASS) to replace the door handle. When I asked about 0w-20 they said newer kseries wagonr are using 0w-20.

Anyways my doubts with you is not about 0W-20. Its about the way you talked about 0w,5w and 5w,10w.
You said 0w is bad for engine when I said I use Mobil1 0w-40 instead of 5w-30
But here you are saying "The difference between 5W and 10W is quite minor"

So What I'm saying is

Viru, can't you agree with this???




First of all, thats a very good car.
I think what you have used is not the brand CALLED MOBIL1. Most probably it is MOBIL or MOBIL SUPER. I dont know whats the difference between them, but what I could know from Mobil1 staffs is they are different and Mobil1 is far far superior to them.
The reason for saying is I dont think Mobil1 had 10W-40 FULLY SYNTHETIC engine oil in India in those times.

I request you to collect the reviews about the the new Mobil1 5w-30 esp from the people who are using it and if you are ready to spend few more bucks on your engine oil, then have a try with it.

I know 5W40 exists, and there is no confusion here. I made the 10W40 recommendation independently, but I only consult with those people when I am unsure. In this case I am certain that 10W40 is ideal for his car, especially as there are few 5W40 oils with decent additives.


So let's just ignore the 3 days you firmly defended 0W20 as being the best, and call it 'scripting'. Yes, very constructive attitude Kichu.

Initially you also claimed that 0W20 made your engine run smoother, now you're admitting you haven't actually tried it?

Anyways, if you want to use 0W20 use it, I have one car with the same engine on 5W30, we'll see whose lasts longer.

0W is harmful, that fact stands. Let me put it this way: We know protein is healthy, but that doesn't mean you should only eat lentils and nothing else. Basically, Yes the difference is minor, but there is also an extent past which you are going too low and will cause some damage.

I can't agree with an incorrect statement.

It is an amazing car, and mine had a Nismo remap (which was quite hard to get).
That's called marketing, but those oils were also synthetics, neither was this in India.

I'm going to stick to 5W30 Magnatec because of it's additives. I may also take my M800 to 10W40 Magnatec. It's not any cheaper than Mobil oils, but it's more VFM.

Am a bit late here guys,but i just need a quick answer,
I have misplaced the manual & bills for my Swift Petrol 1.3(G13BB) but am sure it uses 15w -40 & i feel at last service 05w-30 was added instead & that made me run low on engine oil at 8000km after service(had to top up).
Planning to send car to an authorized garage so i can overlook everything.
Planning to get Shell HX 7 (semi syn) & see the results as car has done last 74000 on only mineral oil from company.

Just to clear things if recommend is 15w40 & i use a 10w40,the 10w should give better cold start protection while providing same viscosity or protection at higher temp as the other ?

As far i understand the new k series petrol use 05w30 which mean less thick but older engines like the esteem & my Swift petrol 1.3 need w40 atleast for protection.

Waiting for advice to clear the confusion.

If your car lost oil quickly after the oil change, you should really get all the seals, gaskets and plugs examined, it is most likely due to some leakage rather than the lower viscosity.

The 10W has a lower cold viscosity than the 15W. This will make cold starts easier, but not necessarily always provide better protection when cold. In Indian conditions, however, it will be a good choice.

Once warm, both the oils will have the same viscosity (40 grade) which means the level of protection will depend on the Friction rating of the oils.

 

[Prads]

If your car lost oil quickly after the oil change, you should really get all the seals, gaskets and plugs examined, it is most likely due to some leakage rather than the lower viscosity.

The 10W has a lower cold viscosity than the 15W. This will make cold starts easier, but not necessarily always provide better protection when cold. In Indian conditions, however, it will be a good choice.

Once warm, both the oils will have the same viscosity (40 grade) which means the level of protection will depend on the Friction rating of the oils.

Yes that was my concern too,had the car taken to two places & they said engine is fine & no oil leaks,if any examination they need to open the heads ,at the moment decided to wait it out,also another reason for excessive oil consumption can be clogged air filter but that was ruled out.
Whats your opinion about Shell HX7 oil? It is available in Shell pump hence deciding to go with it.

 

[Viru]

Yes that was my concern too,had the car taken to two places & they said engine is fine & no oil leaks,if any examination they need to open the heads ,at the moment decided to wait it out,also another reason for excessive oil consumption can be clogged air filter but that was ruled out.
Whats your opinion about Shell HX7 oil? It is available in Shell pump hence deciding to go with it.

Hmm, that is definitely strange...have you checked for leaks from the O-ring of the oil filter? Usually this is very slow leakage and difficult to notice. You can avoid this next time by putting a thin layer of oil on top of the ring before screwing in the new filter.

I've used Shell 10W40 oil before, it's good stuff, much better than Mobil in my experience.

 

[srinivas_gs]

Hi Srinivas,
Here the reason is not because OEM oils are bad.
OEM oils are not going to harm unless you dont abuse your engine or you change the oil regularly. Yes in this case OEM oils are good.
Now let me say how outside oils get more value.

1)OEM can perform well only for the above stated conditions. So a person who likes to drive at higher rpms will prefer better oil than the OEM.
Because OEM oils will soon looses their lubrication ability with ones driving styles(RPM range). So we will require frequent oil changes.
Srinivas: Agreed, the more rpm the engine rotates, the more frequent the engine oil to be changed once in 7000 kms instead of 10000 kms. This is still cheaper than costlier Synth/Semi-synths which still has not got external data (other than synth oil manufacturers own success stories..
2)Engine smoothness: If your search ends with the right engine oil, then you can definitely feel its smoothness.
Srinivas : The right engine oil is the OEM one indeed. which is none other than recommended by car manufacturer himself. I am not sure how does more engine smoothness effects driving capability though.
3)Better flow of oil will result in better performances.
Srinivas : Can anyone deny OEM oil will not do this? Else the car manufacturer will himself not use this
OEM oils are not mend to be an all rounder there by it cuts down its price and makes the regular service cheaper which helps in attracting the customers.
Srinivas : Yourself has agreed on economical costs to maintain a car with OEM oil. Also, I am not sure what is all rounder you are mentioning here. For instance, if the vehicle is SUV, the OEM oil will for sure support the functionalities meant for vehicle to work as SUV. Isn't it?
In addition to engine oils, OEM spark plug, OEM intake filter, OEM tyres, OEM Headlamps etc are all made for the normal usage. So what I'm saying is we cant except an average cars OEM products to have a wonderful performances

Srinivas : An engine should perform the activity for which it is designed and in order to support its functions, manufacturers identify particular grade and quality of oil that will help in keeping clean and lubricate. If we are going to race the engine or abuse the engine, the will get opened up sooner no matter what engine oil is used.

While I trust in manufacturer recommendations & stick by it I don't have any trust in advises provided by service center folks (including service manager). Very difficult to find a sensible and knowledgeable guy these days. That is why it is best to adhere to what is specified by manufacturer with respect to service as well - interval of service, recommendations on replacements etc and not seek advise of service advisors unless really required.

Hi Dhana

Any service center folks will not play with oil irrespective of the fast bucks involved. The consequence will be severe if caught. These guys do know that. Atleast all the A.S.S. centers I know near my area do not meddle here. But of course, they always find ways to make money in other ways just like you mentioned. But they do not cheat using a old or used one and charging it as new.

OEM by Hyundai is not synthetic oil its mineral.
I asked service adviser do you have a manufacturer recommended synthetic oil?
answer is no.
Universal truth is synthetic oil is better than mineral ones

Hi, Pls. help to share statistics to prove the universal truth. We might read in these forums that few manufacturers do not recommend to use Synth at all.

The basic reason behind this is similar to the one behind ECU remaps and any other vehicle modification. When any manufacturer defines certain parameters for a car they are based on an approximate image of the usage the vehicle is intended to undergo in it's lifetime.

Because of this it is actually quite logical to use an oil grade that is more suited to the life and usage of your vehicle, to allow you to get the maximum out of it!

If you select an oil carefully, it is highly unlikely that you will do any harm to the internals of the engine. I don't think it's a huge problem to go buy some oil every 10,000 km, especially if you love your car!

It's usually not too difficult to identify spurious oils...

The choice is between using branded OEM oil and Vitamin M enriched Synth/Semi Synth oil. No one prevents to buy. But not needed atleast under Indian conditions were car is not loaded using a trailer etc. OEM can do everything what Synth/Semi Synth can do but may have slightly increase oil change frequency which should be okay costwise. Also OEM is not a third grade oil. Its also branded only. For e-g Shell is OEM for Maruti. Will anyone tell no for Shell?

 

[Viru]

The choice is between using branded OEM oil and Vitamin M enriched Synth/Semi Synth oil. No one prevents to buy. But not needed atleast under Indian conditions were car is not loaded using a trailer etc. OEM can do everything what Synth/Semi Synth can do but may have slightly increase oil change frequency which should be okay costwise. Also OEM is not a third grade oil. Its also branded only. For e-g Shell is OEM for Maruti. Will anyone tell no for Shell?

Well, buying Synthetic blend oils is not just a money and oil change interval factor.

The main technical advantage of Synthetic blended oils is that not only do they allow a more consistent viscosity across the temperature range (ie. More uniform thinning/thickening with temperature) but they typically have a much better friction rating (ie. Cause less friction between moving components). Added to this is the capability of synthetic blended oils to accept more effective oil additives such as better detergents and anti-corrosives, which is the main reason they are more expensive.

This is largely beneficial when loaded (such as you mentioned with towing a trailer), but it is also noticeably beneficial to fuel economy, engine life, etc in normal conditions.

Not all oils are equal just because they are the same brand. All companies make a huge range of oils from cheap to nearly twice the price, but they are also hugely different products!

 

[Kichu]

I know 5W40 exists, and there is no confusion here. I made the 10W40 recommendation independently, but I only consult with those people when I am unsure. In this case I am certain that 10W40 is ideal for his car, especially as there are few 5W40 oils with decent additives.

So you are saying even If the manufacturer recommended grade is 5w, 10w is not going to harm the engine?
Even with the recommended grade of oil majority of the engine wear occurs during the cold start dont you know that?
Then how can you say even more higher cold viscous oil wont make any harm?

So let's just ignore the 3 days you firmly defended 0W20 as being the best, and call it 'scripting'. Yes, very constructive attitude Kichu.

Initially you also claimed that 0W20 made your engine run smoother, now you're admitting you haven't actually tried it?

Yes, we had a fantastic blast with 0w20. Does it mean you did't blame about 0w40? Trying to escape isnt it?
Wrong!!! What All I said about 0W-20 is.
I got to know 0w-20 is used in newer kseires engine from MASS and MARUTI via mails and call. No where I stated I used 0W-20 and I challenge you. If your words holds any bit of truthfulness then quote me those line where I said I used 0w-20 or 0w20 is the best other than that I said the words from MASS and MARUTI.

Anyways, if you want to use 0W20 use it, I have one car with the same engine on 5W30, we'll see whose lasts longer.

I didn't ask you to use 0w20.
If you want to last your engine even more longer then use 0w-40 instead of 5w30.

0W is harmful, that fact stands. Let me put it this way: We know protein is healthy, but that doesn't mean you should only eat lentils and nothing else. Basically, Yes the difference is minor, but there is also an extent past which you are going too low and will cause some damage.
I can't agree with an incorrect statement.

Too low, how?
All you want to say is how 0w is going to harm the engine. I request you to support your statements by giving technical reasons for it
*Do you think 0W40 oil in normal atmospheric temperature is lighter than when it is in its operating temperature?
-If your answer is YES, then the meaning is 0w-40 oil gets thicker when it is hot. Do you think it is possible?.
-If the answer is NO, then How does it gonna harm the engine? Please give technical reasons if you had any. So its really very easy for the readers to understand.
Please kick these things in your head
1)0W-40 oil will be much thicker than when it is in the operating temperature.
2)0w will be thinner than a 5w so it can flow much faster.

It is an amazing car, and mine had a Nismo remap (which was quite hard to get).
That's called marketing, but those oils were also synthetics, neither was this in India.

I'm going to stick to 5W30 Magnatec because of it's additives. I may also take my M800 to 10W40 Magnatec. It's not any cheaper than Mobil oils, but it's more VFM.

Okay.
I didn't get you, you mean the experiences of this car you had from another country?If yes, Which country? what the maximum lowest temperature? Just wanted to know from where did you use this 10w-40 grade oil if it is other than from India.

 

[Kichu]

Hi Sreenivas

1)OEM can perform well only for the above stated conditions. So a person who likes to drive at higher rpms will prefer better oil than the OEM.
Because OEM oils will soon looses their lubrication ability with ones driving styles(RPM range). So we will require frequent oil changes.

Srinivas: Agreed, the more rpm the engine rotates, the more frequent the engine oil to be changed once in 7000 kms instead of 10000 kms. This is still cheaper than costlier Synth/Semi-synths which still has not got external data (other than synth oil manufacturers own success stories..

You might feel funny, But still what I wanna say is. Less frequent oil change is actually a little contribution to our nature.(Dont think I said this because I dont have any other points. I have already said about this in some other thread when talking the advantage of synthetic oil for those who can bare the amount)
and you just no need to increase the number of visits to the service center just for doing the oil change service.(Yes, if you can find enough time for those visits then its not a problem)

2)Engine smoothness: If your search ends with the right engine oil, then you can definitely feel its smoothness.
Srinivas : The right engine oil is the OEM one indeed. which is none other than recommended by car manufacturer himself. I am not sure how does more engine smoothness effects driving capability though.

Do you think only the OEM is best?
I found my 3 pot 1L engine lot smoother with 0w-40 than the OEM 5w-30 oil.
So here what I learned is If I wanted a smoother and quieter engine then I can go for 0w-40 instead of this OEM oil.
I wont say that OEM plugs are the best, but still why in our manuals oem plug brand is written and not the OEM engine oil brand name? IF manufacturer know it is the right oil then why they are not printing its brand name along with the recommended grade? As year passes why manufacturer starts using some other new brands of oil as OEM oil?

3)Better flow of oil will result in better performances.
Srinivas : Can anyone deny OEM oil will not do this? Else the car manufacturer will himself not use this

You are right, nobody can deny it. Here obviously I was not referring to the newly poured OEM oil.

OEM oils are not mend to be an all rounder there by it cuts down its price and makes the regular service cheaper which helps in attracting the customers.
Srinivas : Yourself has agreed on economical costs to maintain a car with OEM oil. Also, I am not sure what is all rounder you are mentioning here. For instance, if the vehicle is SUV, the OEM oil will for sure support the functionalities meant for vehicle to work as SUV. Isn't it?

Yes, definitely I agree to its cost.
Its not like that, I will explain.
Consider a car A-star. its peak torque is at 3500rpm and peak power is at 6200rpm and A-star dont even have a oil catch can too.
Remember One thing, here the manufacturer is made this engine to run even at 6200 rpm isn't it?

Yes riding at 3500rpm cannot be termed as high rpm but what about driving at 5000rpm? Do you think its still safe to ride the OEM oil till it clocks 10,000kms or the internal components are strong enough to bare this high rpm range???
In my manual it says not to redline the rpm needle. but it doesn't say anything about the frequency of engine oil change with respect to the rpm. So you mean it can have 10000kms/1year oil change interval even if we ride this at 5k or 6.2k rpm?

In addition to engine oils, OEM spark plug, OEM intake filter, OEM tyres, OEM Headlamps etc are all made for the normal usage. So what I'm saying is we cant except an average cars OEM products to have a wonderful performances

Srinivas : An engine should perform the activity for which it is designed and in order to support its functions, manufacturers identify particular grade and quality of oil that will help in keeping clean and lubricate. If we are going to race the engine or abuse the engine, the will get opened up sooner no matter what engine oil is used.

Again consider A-star with peak torque @ 3500rpm and peak power @ 6200rpm.

You said an engine should perform the activity for which it is designed for. When manufacturer claim peak power @ 6200rpm can we say riding at 6200rpm as abuse unless we hit redline? and do you think OEM will keep clean and lubricate for the 10000kms/1year of period even for this range of rpm? I believe your answer will be NO.

So as I said before, OEM is good for the normal usage. but not for the real usage, thats why an enthusiastic driver searching for outside oils.

 

[Viru]

So you are saying even If the manufacturer recommended grade is 5w, 10w is not going to harm the engine?
Even with the recommended grade of oil majority of the engine wear occurs during the cold start dont you know that?
Then how can you say even more higher cold viscous oil wont make any harm?


Yes, we had a fantastic blast with 0w20. Does it mean you did't blame about 0w40? Trying to escape isnt it?
Wrong!!! What All I said about 0W-20 is.
I got to know 0w-20 is used in newer kseires engine from MASS and MARUTI via mails and call. No where I stated I used 0W-20 and I challenge you. If your words holds any bit of truthfulness then quote me those line where I said I used 0w-20 or 0w20 is the best other than that I said the words from MASS and MARUTI.



I didn't ask you to use 0w20.
If you want to last your engine even more longer then use 0w-40 instead of 5w30.



Too low, how?
All you want to say is how 0w is going to harm the engine. I request you to support your statements by giving technical reasons for it
*Do you think 0W40 oil in normal atmospheric temperature is lighter than when it is in its operating temperature?
-If your answer is YES, then the meaning is 0w-40 oil gets thicker when it is hot. Do you think it is possible?.
-If the answer is NO, then How does it gonna harm the engine? Please give technical reasons if you had any. So its really very easy for the readers to understand.
Please kick these things in your head
1)0W-40 oil will be much thicker than when it is in the operating temperature.
2)0w will be thinner than a 5w so it can flow much faster.



Okay.
I didn't get you, you mean the experiences of this car you had from another country?If yes, Which country? what the maximum lowest temperature? Just wanted to know from where did you use this 10w-40 grade oil if it is other than from India.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, because it's true. Because as long as the higher cold viscosity is still liquid at that temperature, the engine will be able to form an oil film.

I never said 0W was acceptable, I said it was bad. But 20 hot viscosity is just worse. 0W40 is bad, but 0W20 is worse in these conditions, it's called relativity.
Rather than quoting lines, I could quote the entire thread, but that would be against forum rules so I would suggest you review it yourself.

Using 0W40 will damage my engine more when cold and benefit it less when hot than 5W30.

Where did you hear that oil gets thicker as it heats up?
Anybody on the forum will back me up when I say that oil actually gets thinner when it heats up and thickens as it cools. This is the premise behind the invention of multi-grade oils.

The reason this will harm the engine is that even if we consider the minimum temperature in India (Himalayas excluded ) the 0W will be considerably thinner than it should be at start-up. Flow rate will not be largely different due to the presence of the oil pump, but the lower viscosity will make it more difficult for a consistent film to form on the engine's components. Once the engine is warm, the thinner oil does no harm because there is already a layer of oil on all of the moving parts. This is not an issue with 5W and above because these maintain an ideal cold viscosity at Indian ambient temperatures.

Yes, that car was a faithful companion to me in 2 neighboring countries in East Africa, you can try guessing which ones. Ambient temp. was 15C~35C.

 

[srinivas_gs]

Hi Sreenivas

You might feel funny, But still what I wanna say is. Less frequent oil change is actually a little contribution to our nature.(Dont think I said this because I dont have any other points. I have already said about this in some other thread when talking the advantage of synthetic oil for those who can bare the amount)
and you just no need to increase the number of visits to the service center just for doing the oil change service.(Yes, if you can find enough time for those visits then its not a problem)

Srinivas: There is nothing funny in what you mentioned. In fact I appreciate your care for environment.

Do you think only the OEM is best?
I found my 3 pot 1L engine lot smoother with 0w-40 than the OEM 5w-30 oil.
So here what I learned is If I wanted a smoother and quieter engine then I can go for 0w-40 instead of this OEM oil.
I wont say that OEM plugs are the best, but still why in our manuals oem plug brand is written and not the OEM engine oil brand name? IF manufacturer know it is the right oil then why they are not printing its brand name along with the recommended grade? As year passes why manufacturer starts using some other new brands of oil as OEM oil?
Srinivas: Manufacturer normally recommends a grade (not oil) and it is for the dealer to use the exact oil which manufacturer specifies to them. Normally manufacturer avoids advertising oils in their manuals. For e-g Mobil 1 is a OEM for Maruti diesel engines used by all Maruti service stations but not given in manuals.


Yes, definitely I agree to its cost.
Its not like that, I will explain.
Consider a car A-star. its peak torque is at 3500rpm and peak power is at 6200rpm and A-star dont even have a oil catch can too.
Remember One thing, here the manufacturer is made this engine to run even at 6200 rpm isn't it?

Yes riding at 3500rpm cannot be termed as high rpm but what about driving at 5000rpm? Do you think its still safe to ride the OEM oil till it clocks 10,000kms or the internal components are strong enough to bare this high rpm range???

In my manual it says not to redline the rpm needle. but it doesn't say anything about the frequency of engine oil change with respect to the rpm. So you mean it can have 10000kms/1year oil change interval even if we ride this at 5k or 6.2k rpm?

Srinivas: If the point mentioned here is on vehicle abuse or used for racing etc this can void the warranty. OEM oils are fit for car use perfectly provided the car is used as per conditions in warranty. Otherwise even a Synth oil too cannot save engine for long


Again consider A-star with peak torque @ 3500rpm and peak power @ 6200rpm.

You said an engine should perform the activity for which it is designed for. When manufacturer claim peak power @ 6200rpm can we say riding at 6200rpm as abuse unless we hit redline? and do you think OEM will keep clean and lubricate for the 10000kms/1year of period even for this range of rpm? I believe your answer will be NO.

So as I said before, OEM is good for the normal usage. but not for the real usage, thats why an enthusiastic driver searching for outside oils.
Srinivas : Nothing will happen if it is used within conditions mentioned in warranty. Also modern engines have less drain interval yet work well in adverse conditions with OEM oil.
If vehicle is being used for racing/abuse then its different story. Even Synth oil cannot prolong the engine life.

Though the topic is on Mineral or Synth oil, we are discussing on OEM vs other oils. Pls note OEM can be synth oils also as specified by manufacturers. My view is that why use synth when OEM is recommended to be a mineral one. There are vehicles that have clocked more than 1L kms with mineral oil. Also, I am not against Synth if it is recommended as OEM. There are lots of debates on this and this can never end too

 

[Viru]

Though the topic is on Mineral or Synth oil, we are discussing on OEM vs other oils. Pls note OEM can be synth oils also as specified by manufacturers. My view is that why use synth when OEM is recommended to be a mineral one. There are vehicles that have clocked more than 1L kms with mineral oil. Also, I am not against Synth if it is recommended as OEM. There are lots of debates on this and this can never end too

Because, as I said before, OEM oils are chosen based on a large number of compromises such as type of usage, load conditions, driving style, price, etc.

The OEM oil is not bad, but to get the most out of your vehicle it is always best to tailor it to the way you use/abuse it.

You're right, this will never end, and we are going off topic, we should continue this on a more suitable thread.

 

[Kichu]

Srinivas:"Pls note OEM can be synth oils also as specified by manufacturers".
-Kichu: In the very first reply to your post I have clearly mentioned that I'm taking about average cars OEM products.
(Quoting those lines)-"So what I'm saying is we cant except an average cars OEM products to have a wonderful performances"
I believe About 80% TAI members are with an average car whose OEM oil is not synthetic.


Srinivas: "My view is that why use synth when OEM is recommended to be a mineral one. There are vehicles that have clocked more than 1L kms with mineral oil".
-Kichu: Again quoting my words "Here the reason is not because OEM oils are bad. OEM oils are not going to harm unless you dont abuse your engine or you change the oil regularly. Yes in this case OEM oils are good."
See I have already mentioned these in my previous posts, so I think either you dont read the replies well or you have forgotten those things. Anyways its good if you could recollect those things before submitting the post, so I dont need to quote my previous post for stating I have already mentioned.
A properly maintained engine will last even more longer no doubt in it.

You have missed a very important question.
Srinivas : "I am not sure what is all rounder you are mentioning here. For instance, if the vehicle is SUV, the OEM oil will for sure support the functionalities meant for vehicle to work as SUV. Isn't it?
An engine should perform the activity for which it is designed and in order to support its functions, manufacturers identify particular grade and quality of oil that will help in keeping clean and lubricate."
-Kichu: Maruti A-star's peak toque and power is @ 3500rpm and 6200rpm respectively and REDLINE starts from 6500rpm.
Do you believe its safe to ride the vehicle at its peak power rpm with OEM oil?
I'm asking you as you said before if this is for what the vehicle is manufactured for then does it mean riding at peak power rpm or even at 5k rpm with the recommended OEM oil will not harm the engine?

Srinivas, Average cars OEM products are not meant to be all rounder. We can make it a little bit more performance car with those better outside products without harming the engine.
Again, If you are a person who is ready to compromise their ride without trying to extract the performances out of it then as I said before OEM oils are quite good.





Hi Viru,

Since your replies are not specific to my questions I have no use in reading your replies so I have no more question to you.

 

[srinivas_gs]

[Kichu: In the very first reply to your post I have clearly mentioned that I'm taking about average cars OEM products.
........
.......

1. I said in closing comments, the topic is getting diverted from the title/subject. Please help to open a new relevant thread so that we can discuss on that more
2. Please. be noted that to speak with data/statistics. I have been asking this the same in my previous observations with @Turbozone (no offence meant please) which you would have read, I believe. Stats speak a ton better. Isn't it?
3. This will be a subjective issue unless we have solid statistics in support of claims for outside OEM oils.

 

[Kichu]

1. I said in closing comments, the topic is getting diverted from the title/subject. Pls. help to open a new relevant thread so that we can discuss on that more
2. Pls. be noted that to speak with data/statistics. I have been asking this the same in my previous observations with @Turbozone (no offence meant pls) which you would have read, I believe. Stats speak a ton better. Isn't it?
3. This will be a subjective issue unless we have solid statistics in support of claims for outside OEM oils.

May I know what kind of data/statistics are you looking for?
You got any data/statistics for saying synthetic oils dont have any advantage over the mineral oils.??? If yes then I request you to share with us.

Thats really funny, how can you say its OFF TOPIC

Srinivas,
1) We dont need a thread called mineral or synthetic oils if we are not worried about about the manufacturer recommended engine oils.
2) I request you to read the very FIRST POST of this thread. There you can easily find, even the thread creator is speaking about upgrading from the OEM engine oil.
3) Even though the thread name is "Mineral or Synthetic Oil" we cant just say Mineral is the best or Synthetic is the best. Obviously we do need explanations for it isn't it?
4) Actually we dont need engine oil for the engine which is not going to work. So speaking about engine's operating conditions for comparing the performances of engine oils are also cannot be catheterized as OFF TOPIC.

Still you wanna say it as OFF TOPIC???
Srinivas, If you have any difficulties in answering to my previous post, then Forget it. I dont mind.

 

[srinivas_gs]

May I know what kind of data/statistics are you looking for?
You got any data/statistics for saying synthetic oils dont have any advantage over the mineral oils.??? If yes then I request you to share with us.

Thats really funny, how can you say its OFF TOPIC

Srinivas,
1) We dont need a thread called mineral or synthetic oils if we are not worried about about the manufacturer recommended engine oils.
2) I request you to read the very FIRST POST of this thread. There you can easily find, even the thread creator is speaking about upgrading from the OEM engine oil.
3) Even though the thread name is "Mineral or Synthetic Oil" we cant just say Mineral is the best or Synthetic is the best. Obviously we do need explanations for it isn't it?
4) Actually we dont need engine oil for the engine which is not going to work. So speaking about engine's operating conditions for comparing the performances of engine oils are also cannot be catheterized as OFF TOPIC.

Still you wanna say it as OFF TOPIC???
Srinivas, If you have any difficulties in answering to my previous post, then Forget it. I dont mind.

@Kichu, I dont need to give any stats for my claim which is already given in manual and as per dealer practices. Please read my posts again. Its not my job to try to convenience others. This is a forum for information and all I am asking is supporting evidence which will help others to know better and for sake of objectivity. If you do not have, please tell you do not have. Not sure why are you asking reverse queries for sake of argument?

 

[Kichu]

@Kichu, I dont need to give any stats for my claim which is already given in manual and as per dealer practices. Pls. read my posts again. Its not my job to try to convenience others. This is a forum for information and all I am asking is supporting evidence which will help others to know better and for sake of objectivity. If you do not have, pls. tell you do not have. Not sure why are you asking reverse queries for sake of argument?

Hey Srinivas, I didn't say following user manual is a bad practice. The reason for me and most of other enthusiasts to go beyond the manual recommendation is why because we can extract a bit more performance with little bit more confidence.

Ya I AGREE, I dont have any stats to prove the smoothness or the protection other than the feel that I can experience from my experiences and the stats that I get from the Oil manufacturer.
I believe It will be really hard for the people like me to get the scientific stats about the benefits of those oils. Because for proving those things, we want to do dyno tests with oem and performance oil and also we want to conduct lab test to find the wear and tear happened to the engine. Seriously these tests are not possible for me right now.

Anyways its a good practice on not to accept anything without getting any stats for it. But similarly you should also don't reject anything without getting any proof for it.

I started giving attention/experimenting about the average oem vs good synthetic engine oil for the past 5 years on different average cars.(alto,a-star,swift,ritz)
What I got to know about a good synthetic engine oil is, it provide the smoothness till the end of oil change interval. Less particle deposits and better cleaning ability.
It reduces engine wear at higher rpms/temperature by providing good film of oil over the moving metal parts. Where as the average oem oils will fail to provide good protection at higher rpm/temperatures since it looses its lubricating ability in those extreme condition as it gets aged.

You are right its not your job to convince others, but definitely its your duty to provide enough details to support your statements you have said isn't it? or else you must agree your statement dont holds any value.

For the sake of argument? What question is that man.
I request you to read your statement once again. Here what you were saying is every car should support the functionalities claimed by the manufacturer isn't it? Or else you were talking only about the SUVs? Quoting your statements.
Srinivas : "I am not sure what is all rounder you are mentioning here. For instance, if the vehicle is SUV, the OEM oil will for sure support the functionalities meant for vehicle to work as SUV. Isn't it?
An engine should perform the activity for which it is designed and in order to support its functions, manufacturers identify particular grade and quality of oil that will help in keeping clean and lubricate."
Now read the question which questions about your above stated statements.
-Maruti A-star's peak toque and power is @ 3500rpm and 6200rpm respectively and REDLINE starts from 6500rpm.
Do you believe its safe to ride the vehicle at its peak power rpm with OEM oil?
I'm asking you as you said before if this is for what the vehicle is manufactured for then does it mean riding at peak power rpm or even at 5k rpm with the recommended OEM oil will not harm the engine or will last the recommended range of oil change interval?
I know you will feel difficulty in answering this question since your statement is not correct.