Hyundai Grand i10 & Xcent: Technical Problems & Solutions

[roby.thomas]

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Second, this puny 1.2L engine was never meant to carry load. Yes, you read it right!

1.2L is not a puny engine per say, that too even with full load of passengers. I've had the 1.2L 1st generation Hyundai i10 prior to this car and used it about 7 years. That never had any trouble on inclines. Admitted, i10 weighs about 100 Kg less than Xcent, so it is expected to be better on the power to weight ratio.

The embarrassment factor that you mentioned is what is catching me up too. A car which costs way less than this one, happily climbs up. If I was determined to take this Xcent up there, then I would surely call attention of all the neighbours around. I didn't want to do that, so decided to walk up.

I have expressed my solid disagreement with the service advisor about the incline performance. He gave me a lot of lecture about how everything is controlled in Xcent through ECU and idling fuel feed to the engine is very less unless it is required. I said, whichever be the super computer that is used, the vehicle should respond to the driver. I asked for the escalation paths, if this concern is not addressed post clutch play adjustment. The service advisor for now, agrees to engage higher level managers to address the problem. I drive around 95% of the time in the city of Kochi where this kind of terrain doesn't occur. I've to go to Kottayam side to test this out, but I will surely do it at the next opportunity.

I strongly have a suspicion that Xcent's ECU computation of vehicle load is going terribly wrong somewhere. The vehicle starts climbing without clutch at a steady pace, now our job is to give sufficient accelerator input to revv up the engine. But there is no feedback from the engine. Even if you floor the accelerator, engine RPM is stuck somewhere below 2500. This engine's peak torque has to come at around 4000 RPM. It is for sure that vehicle can't keep up with that kind of low an RPM. I am still sceptical about clutch play adjustment solving this problem for me - since I don't have to use clutch at this point, unless on a slight shudder where I involuntarily control it in clutch is missed. While I tested the gradient on the wash ramp at the service centre, the engine barely climbed beyond 2000-2500 RPM. But it tackled the climb easily. So that means, the terrain that I was actually attempting was more steeper and of longer range that I couldn't demonstrate the vehicle failing at the point where a higher RPM torque output was demanded.

 

[furious_driver]

1.2L is not a puny engine per say, that too even with full load of passengers. I've had the 1.2L 1st generation Hyundai i10 prior to this car and used it about 7 years. That never had any trouble on inclines. Admitted, i10 weighs about 100 Kg less than Xcent, so it is expected to be better on the power to weight ratio.

The reason I mentioned it as puny is, to give you the context on this issue. I was able to manage the same slope with Alto 800, but now with Xcent. Not without too much effort! As I mentioned, and even my guess is, Xcent is tuned too much towards FE, which might explain this. And the biggest thing is, this doesn't happen when we try to explain this to SA or some one else!

Now regarding the ECU part, I kinda agree with you. It looks valid point and next time, I'll try to explain this to my SA. Meanwhile, I am drafting a mail to Hyundai regarding this issue and I am not going to leave this issue just like this. Let's see how things go. It will throw us some light whether Hyundai listens to customers!

 

[roby.thomas]

Meanwhile, I am drafting a mail to Hyundai regarding this issue and

Thanks furious_driver, I can join the band if you are really set out to contacting Hyundai for clarification in this matter. I can perhaps send you a private message about my vehicle details (VIN etc). At this point I am yet to validate the incline handling after the clutch play adjustment, so I am not targeting Hyundai right away. But it is worthwhile to point to Hyundai that there are things which service center guys take for granted as perfectly working, but there is really a problem which other cars don't exhibit. When I was scanning through the numerous posts on the Grand i10's official review thread, I see that people had been complaining about clutch bite position varying after every service. So they do have an inconsistency in this matter.

In a way I made a misjudgement in the purchase decision of the vehicle. In reviews, the vehicle's petrol engine was classified way superior to the diesel performance and I went by it. Also my past experience with the Hyundai i10 1.2L petrol was a strong supporting factor. But today I think, I should have opted for the 1.1L diesel motor. I rarely do have chances to fly on 6-lane super highways where the 1.2L petrol shines when you touch 120 Km/Hr mark. In Kerala, the fastest I can ever go safely is about 70-80 Km/Hr and the kind of terrains I more frequently encounter would have been better served by a diesel. I still think Xcent is a perfect buy, probably you should choose the right motor for your requirement. 1.1L diesel is portrayed in many forums as way too low on performance than it actually matters in real case. Also diesel is generally classified as for people who runs their car a lot, but in terrain handling case this would have been a game changer.

 

[furious_driver]

Thanks furious_driver, I can join the band if you are really set out to contacting Hyundai for clarification in this matter. I can perhaps send you a private message about my vehicle details (VIN etc). At this point I am yet to validate the incline handling after the clutch play adjustment, so I am not targeting Hyundai right away. But it is worthwhile to point to Hyundai that there are things which service center guys take for granted as perfectly working, but there is really a problem which other cars don't exhibit. When I was scanning through the numerous posts on the Grand i10's official review thread, I see that people had been complaining about clutch bite position varying after every service. So they do have an inconsistency in this matter.

....

I am drafting the content! Let me get the car to HASS next month and see if they can able to accept this issue! Else I will try to send it along with all our details as well links from various sources.

Even when I chose the car, I tested it in B2B city traffic, highways and my regular road but never test drove it in an incline. I had this pre-concieved notion that an 1.2L can easily do that, because of my previous experiences. I was flat out by the interiors, plushness, and premium-ness along with decent fluidic design.

There was another reason I chose Petrol. The 1.1L diesel was lacking that punch I expected. And since my running wouldn't cross 12k max, it doesn't make sense for me to go for an diesel motor! And one more major reason is, I am a sucker for Petrol cars, ever since I rode TSi and 1.5L VTEC engine!! So only if my running crosses 20k/year, I even consider going for an diesel car. But that's just me.

So here is my question, is this really due to clutch play or ECU, or both of them playing together and screw with us!! BTW @roby.thomas, if you don't mind, can you help me in drafting the mail. I am not good in writing formal mail!

 

[TSIVipul]

Guys I don't own an Xcent or a Grand, still I hope I can drop a cent or two from my end too.

Grand i10 I have drove a bit but never the Xcent, it was a new car and did really well across the roads and even hills too.

I guess the issue you guys are facing has something to do with the tuning of ECU. Maybe their program goes kaput at the times of high torque requirement and is unable to direct the EFI system to supply the needful. Ehh, typing on phone is really a sucking experience!!

Well I would suggest you to go LinkedIn+Twitter way. Write about it in LinkedIn, share through your connection and then tweet the same to officials of Hyundai India. Maybe this one will be more effective as you have have people to join you in the mean time as well as the reach is increased by default.

 

[roby.thomas]

So here is my question, is this really due to clutch play or ECU, or both of them playing together and screw with us!! BTW @roby.thomas, if you don't mind, can you help me in drafting the mail. I am not good in writing formal mail!

I guess the issue you guys are facing has something to do with the tuning of ECU. Maybe their program goes kaput at the times of high torque requirement and is unable to direct the EFI system to supply the needful.

@furious_driver, I can surely help on that drafting part. I'm trying to get two photographs of the terrains that I am speaking of.

By the way clutch play adjustment solves one problem for me - that's the usual stalling of engine at casual stop-and-go situation. The problem at incline is yet another, which I primarily suspect exactly what @TSIVipul is mentioning of. It may be aggravated with clutch play problem when the incline is non-paved, as in private roads leading to individual houses which is very common in Kerala - I may be tackling small rocky obstacles with clutch, that happens involuntarily - I don't pay a conscious attention while doing it.

On steep inclines of tarmac, or paved tiled roads the vehicle will not stall, but literally crawl up on 2nd gear. Just think of how an overloaded Ashok Leyland would tackle an incline. This is a typical case of an apartment in my city which has about more than half a kilometer of continuous gradient road leading to its entrance. I'm flooring the accelerator but the vehicle shows no intention of gaining speed, but it steadily and peacefully crawls up. But it was such an awkward movement that I looked up the RPM guage, and other indications to see whether something is really wrong !! Engine sound can't be heard at all, that's because in 2nd gear on this incline, the engine refuses to take on RPM when you give accelerator input. Definitely engine is not delivering the power it can at 2nd gear.

Now, this car is equipped with gear shift indicator - Rather than as a newbie indicator for optimal gear shifting habits, I attribute another meaning to it. If I understand it correctly, that shift indication is a direct result of the ECU computation of the load put on the engine. In my situation, if the current gear at which you are pulling up is not catering to the load, it should indicate me to downshift to lower gears. I'm flooring the accelerator, and that's my way of telling the vehicle that I need more power output - But ECU shows no indications of a gear shift requirement. And that's the key - The ECU thinks its doing the job well in 2nd gear, and the vehicle RPM stays stuck at around 2000-2500 RPM.

Then I had put it on 1st gear to myself get a sense that I am driving a car and not a dumb underpowered lorry. It's in 1st gear that the RPM started moving up on accelerator input - and the vehicle gained momentum too. I've got a 30 -40Km/Hr speed then. This incident left me baffled as to what would I actually do if I really encountered a tough incline - I've already utilized first in a situation which I normally thought would handle in 2nd gear. Again going back to the gear shift indicator, I think it didn't indicate me to upshift to 2nd gear while I revved up the engine in 1st gear all along the half kilometre incline. Now an added point here is that, if this was a part of a stretch of road where I was already coming at a decent speed of about 60 Km/Hr , then maybe 3rd gear or 2nd gear is all that's required to keep the pace here. The trouble happens when right from setting the vehicle on motion, you have a long continuous gradient to tackle. I think there are much serious gradients in the state highways in Kerala where I have taken this vehicle just at its normal cruising speeds, without even being conscious about it.

Now on a flat road, there is a definitive sensible indication from the gear shift indicator. If I am running at around 30-40 Km/Hr in 4th gear at steady speed, no indications appear. But the moment I step on the accelerator and floor it, the ECU senses my requirement is to accelerate and immediately indicates a downshift to 3rd. This is just perfect - The vehicle understands my requirement of sudden acceleration and it knows it can't make it on 4th gear. Similarly, if I accelerated on 3rd gear and reached a steady speed of say 50 Km/Hr and above and continued in 3rd, the gear shift indicator now tells me to upshift to 4th or maybe 5th. That's again perfect, the vehicle knows that I am not requesting him any more acceleration and it's a steady speed that i have achieved - upshift to the right gear to maintain speed. But this is just not what happens on incline.

Now on the unpaved country road, I had to give up even being entirely on 1st gear. That wasn't too lengthy an incline, maybe about 200 meters. I can literally copy what I said about earlier while in second gear. The vehicle crawls dead slow and peacefully up the incline. But further accelerator input makes no progress. Engine does not roar, RPM doesn't climb, and I have my accelerator floored. The only difference between the previous incident and now is that, I don't have a gear left to downshift to. Obviously in this case, gear shift indicator can't show anything, because there is nothing below '1st' gear - so I have no expectations there. The only expectation was that albeit crawling, I wanted the vehicle to reach up the incline - just like those unfortunate lorries. But instead what happens is that the engine just stalls after making half way through the incline. Disappointment is that the engine didn't even get to it's peak torque band, the 4000 RPM range - all that I can do is give accelerator, ECU has to decide the fuel feed which it probably decided as not required.

 

[furious_driver]

@furious_driver, I can surely help on that drafting part. I'm trying to get two photographs of the terrains that I am speaking of.

By the way clutch play adjustment solves one problem for me - that's the usual stalling of engine at casual stop-and-go situation. The problem at incline is yet another, which I primarily suspect exactly what @TSIVipul is mentioning of. It may be aggravated with clutch play problem when the incline is non-paved, as in private roads leading to individual houses which is very common in Kerala - I may be tackling small rocky obstacles with clutch, that happens involuntarily - I don't pay a conscious attention while doing it. ......................

Well explained. Very well put. You have covered all scenarios. So basically ECU has it's own mind. Now we all know what happens, if we let the computers make decision for us.

Now we need to hear it from Grand i10 & Elite i20 P owners. If it is the same case, then we can conclude Hyundai did some ugly job back there with their ECU!

 

[rselva]

Now we need to hear it from Grand i10 & Elite i20 P owners. If it is the same case, then we can conclude Hyundai did some ugly job back there with their ECU!

This problem is not there in Grand i10.

 

[furious_driver]

This problem is not there in Grand i10.

Did you try to replicate what roby mentioned! How about the steep inclines? Did it perform well in 2nd gear?

 

[rselva]

Did you try to replicate what roby mentioned! How about the steep inclines? Did it perform well in 2nd gear?

My reply is based on my trips to Tirupathi and recent trip to Aluva ,Kerala. Aluva has typical landscape described by Roby. For eg If you drive from Aluva bus terminus to cochin, there is a stretch of 1/2 Km steep incline leading up to Dynamic Orthopedics, then there are many smaller steep paths on the apartments side of Aluva Shiva temple. You park your vehicle on the apartments' side and have to take boat to the other shore to reach Shiva Temple. There are many unpaved slopes leading to toddy shops too. (btw, I am a teetotaler). Small hotels selling Puttu and Pazhampori are all located in either inclines or slopes. Grand i10 had no problem negotiating these terrain in 2nd gear and sometimes pulled up with aplomb even in 3rd gear. It should be noted that there were at most 3 people onboard.

 

[roby.thomas]

Grand i10 had no problem negotiating these terrain in 2nd gear and sometimes pulled up with aplomb even in 3rd gear. It should be noted that there were at most 3 people onboard.

Thank you rselva, That's comforting to know that the problems I have might be a one off incident. But just to be sure, are you speaking about a Grand i10 Petrol or Diesel ??

 

[roby.thomas]

I just thought of attaching pictures of the typical terrains that I face problems at.

Case 1 - Intermittent stop-and-go stalls [ Now rectified after clutch play adjustment ]

That's a very usual occurrence at parking lots of supermarkets etc. The slight ridge is not even visible when you are in driver's seat. You would expect the vehicle to crawl into parking position casually, but at the slightest resistance the engine used to stall. You don't have room to adjust your clutch since engine doesn't give a feedback before giving up. After clutch play adjustment this is well tackled, at-least to the way I am used to so far.

Case 2 - My Xcent can tackle an accepted momentum uphill only in the first gear



This is a road leading to a premium apartment (Ivy League, Skyline Builders). The vehicle from which the pictures are shot is a Polo GT TDI, so no competition with that. There are a couple of country side terrains where my vehicle absolutely refused to climb. I've requested the people staying there to send me photos of that as well, but I haven't yet got it. Will upload that too as it arrives.

And I have a wonderful news that my vehicle is now in service centre for an ABS failure !! Will update on that story, once I hear back from the Hyundai tomorrow.

 

[furious_driver]

^^ Sorry to hear that. Can you explain what is the problem? Did it failed all of sudden or while driving?

 

[uddhav17]

Gave my car to first free service(Just inspection). But now I am getting some weird issue, once i lock the car, after 5-10mins, car giving the security alarm sound. And I can see the boot lid open warning icon very frequently and even though I close them properly, it flashes every now and then.

Called up the SA and they asked to bring it over. Will this become any big issue? Do I have to shell out some money? Car is barely 34 days old.

I am also facing same issue from today. Will take the car to SA on Monday. For now i have turned off the battery from the fuse panel to stop the horn.

Car is 16 months old, driven only 4000 km.

 

[furious_driver]

^^ For me, it was because while cleaning the car(water jet!!), somehow water entered in some electrical parts and caused this issue. I parked the car under sun for some time with bonnet open and it was fixed.