Figo TDCi - Low FE. Need Suggestions.

[freakdude]

The only problem would be the seated rings might not have that buffer any more, it does make then engine free but a little rough as well.

That's quite a valid concern buddy!! My suggestion was limited to keep the engine on boil or redline only for a few secs. say 4-5 secs only per gear. I guess for an engine that can easily rev freely this much shouldn't be an issue. Again, I am no expert of the topic.

 

[jarpickle]

Yes a little amount of carbon is needed in the engine.That's why you are told against flshing higher mileage engines.The carbon helps seal parts and seat them together.It helps parts to sit properly with each other and not vibrate extensively.

Although carbon does suck engine power.Thats why you need to go for an engine overhaul after a said amount of kms.

If you have been filling fuel from a lot of different stations and from different companies, the drop in FE can be associated with that.You are supposed to stick with one brand on longer drives and one pump on shorter ones.

Use a fuel system cleaner.Cyclo(pidilite) makes one for petrol, they might be having a similar product for diesel.Follow the instructions on the can/bottle.

 

[Gurrala74]

@Subbu

I just have one more suggestion, please stand in front of the guy while filling the fuel in your car and ask him to fill without stopping in between as most of the times this is a common practice of fuel stations and we keep thinking of bad FE too

 

[Figoian]

Yes a little amount of carbon is needed in the engine.That's why you are told against flshing higher mileage engines.The carbon helps seal parts and seat them together.It helps parts to sit properly with each other and not vibrate extensively.

Although carbon does suck engine power.Thats why you need to go for an engine overhaul after a said amount of kms.

Hmmm... Interesting, but too technical to understand the crux.

If you have been filling fuel from a lot of different stations and from different companies, the drop in FE can be associated with that.You are supposed to stick with one brand on longer drives and one pump on shorter ones.

Use a fuel system cleaner.Cyclo(pidilite) makes one for petrol, they might be having a similar product for diesel.Follow the instructions on the can/bottle.

I have been doing that to check the FE with various brands and pumps. However, I do try them for 2 - 3 tank fills together, observe the trend and then change.

Is there any reason to stick to a brand or pump? In general, the fuel must be same be it any brand or pump isn't? Yes, COCO Pumps may be trusted for Q & Q, but others?

@Subbu

I just have one more suggestion, please stand in front of the guy while filling the fuel in your car and ask him to fill without stopping in between as most of the times this is a common practice of fuel stations and we keep thinking of bad FE too

I do that always. The nozzle is untouched until the 1st cut off, then on manual mode till the mouth. In between, I used to stop it with Auto Cut Off, but that method is prone to errors due to size & sensor variations with different nozzles.

 

[jarpickle]

For the Carbon:Think of this as acting as a lubricant.In higher mileage cars Carbon buildup acts as a lubricant between contact surfaces.It is a kind of undesired lubricant that does less good compared to bad, meaning it does rob the engine of power.The only way to overcome this is flush the engine and use the thickest grade of oil that is mentioned in the user manual.
At a certain stage the thicker oil won't be helpful any more, this is when you need to get the engine overhauled.Rebored to use slightly larger pistons(First oversize).This way there is no gap in the contact surfaces.Then its the same procedure.You have an initial run in period.After that thousands on kms of usage and then the same problem happens i.e. carbon buildup, flushing out the carbon, using thicker oil and once the thicker oil isn't helpful another rebore and another (second)oversize piston.

Do this till you run out of oversizes,if you decide to keep the car till then you may need a new half engine or full depending on the wear.


For Fuel:The thing about sticking with one fuel brand and one pump is that various brands have their own kinds of additives that they add to the fuel,even the standard base fuel and not just the premium ones.

Its always a good idea to fill fuel from a station that is frequented by a lot of people that way you always get fresh fuel.

It doesn't hurt to get premium fuel every now and then.The additives in the fuel clean out your lines.The difference in costs are almost the same as buying yourself additive from a car store and adding it to the standard fuel.

 

[Figoian]

For the Carbon:Think of this as acting as a lubricant.In higher mileage cars Carbon buildup acts as a lubricant between contact surfaces.It is a kind of undesired lubricant that does less good compared to bad, meaning it does rob the engine of power.The only way to overcome this is flush the engine and use the thickest grade of oil that is mentioned in the user manual.
At a certain stage the thicker oil won't be helpful any more, this is when you need to get the engine overhauled.Rebored to use slightly larger pistons(First oversize).This way there is no gap in the contact surfaces.Then its the same procedure.You have an initial run in period.After that thousands on kms of usage and then the same problem happens i.e. carbon buildup, flushing out the carbon, using thicker oil and once the thicker oil isn't helpful another rebore and another (second)oversize piston.

Do this till you run out of oversizes,if you decide to keep the car till then you may need a new half engine or full depending on the wear.

Understood. Thanks for the insight jarpickle;289701. So if I understand it correctly, the Italian Tune Up would clear of these carbon deposits, which probably acts as a lubricant. Right? In that case, would De-Carbonation isn't recommended at all?

For Fuel:The thing about sticking with one fuel brand and one pump is that various brands have their own kinds of additives that they add to the fuel,even the standard base fuel and not just the premium ones.

Its always a good idea to fill fuel from a station that is frequented by a lot of people that way you always get fresh fuel.

It doesn't hurt to get premium fuel every now and then.The additives in the fuel clean out your lines.The difference in costs are almost the same as buying yourself additive from a car store and adding it to the standard fuel.

Got it. Can try Shell for couple of tank fills? Or Premium Diesel from others?

The Regular Diesel Price in Bangalore is Rs. 54.21 and Premium may be couple of bucks more which is similar to of Shell 57.35

 

[jarpickle]

Yes, it is not recommended for engines that have done more than 50k kms.If you do go for one, you will immediately find that the engine is rough and needs a thicker oil.

The Italian tune up sounds good, just try not to do it often.Like I said Carbon buildup has its merits and demerits.

That is why any good mechanic will tell you to change your engine oil every 5000kms irrespective of what your manual says from the get go, apart from the 1000kms first oil and filter change in a new car.This prevents major carbon buildup as the new oil will keep removing it.

After a certain amount of kms even your gearbox needs thicker oil.Instead of Ep 90 you might need Ep 140.

Shell is premium as it is.As far as I know its much better than the rest, but our Bangalore members can comment about which brand of premium fuel actually lives up to its reputation. Varun would be a good source for this information.

 

[jarpickle]

We are having a TAI Mumbai- Pune Meet.Please check out the following thread:

http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/automotive-meets/12686-planning-tai-mumbai-pune-meet.html

 

[anshuman8]

For Fuel:The thing about sticking with one fuel brand and one pump is that various brands have their own kinds of additives that they add to the fuel,even the standard base fuel and not just the premium ones.

Its always a good idea to fill fuel from a station that is frequented by a lot of people that way you always get fresh fuel.

It doesn't hurt to get premium fuel every now and then.The additives in the fuel clean out your lines.The difference in costs are almost the same as buying yourself additive from a car store and adding it to the standard fuel.

I second on this point. Try to stick to one pump after you zeroed in that pump gives correct Q&Q. Also try to stick to a same pumping machine. Also just put normal diesel(hope you are doing that already).

 

[Figoian]

Update: Just back from the Mileage Test and it resulted 16.57 for a 50/50 City & Highway Drive. We drove for 58 KMs and it drank 3.5 Lts. The City Traffic was much better and not as bad as the peak hours. Highway was absolutely free and he maintained 60 - 70 speed with AC ON.

I felt it's way too less compared what we discussed earlier and the Service Manager was kind of OK and started saying about the traffic conditions and we should have gone 30/70 of City & Highway and we did 50/50 etc. I just stopped him and asked a simple question. "Do you remember the figures that you estimated earlier and is it anyway closer?" Unless you are convinced, what feedback will you give to Ford?. He understood my point and said, he will forward the report to Ford India and give his feedback as "Pretty Low". Will see what Ford would advise.

One way I am happy that the car didn't react otherwise with SC Guys and make me a fool (as it always would happen). Let's see what have they got to do now.

BTW, there a pretty great chances that they would come back to convince me that this is an excellent figure and that's all this car can give .

Update: Do you see the above point in Bold? You got it. After 4 days of follow up, the Service Manager updated me that Ford India is much happy that the FE is pretty good. The logic is, we drove about 60 KMs for 2 hours, which means, the average speed was 30 KMPH and it's a great mileage for that speed. I was . I asked him, "forget about me, but are you convinced on this"? and he was "Yes Sir..." ridiculously. What about the big great points we discussed earlier? No sir.. this sir... that sir... Trying to topple things to cover his inability to figure out the issue or convince the Ford Management.

As per Ford India, the drive should have been 30% City & 70% Highway. Most importantly, must cruise in 4th / 5th gear in City... Is it anyway possible in Bangalore or in any city for that matter? If that's the case, it's rather not a city drive at all. He then suggested, rather conveyed Ford's brilliant advice to go for 100 KMs drive again! For what joy? And the expected FE would be 17 - 18.

I said, Thank You Very Much.

 

[Gurrala74]

Hahahahahaha, Subbu, what a guess on Ford !! Kudos to you buddy, I think now nothing left with those fellows to squeeze and I feel that you get the car serviced in a complete different dealer some where in Bangalore or in Chennai and see the results. If not satisfied then there is only one thing is left, drive down to Chennai maramalainagar where Ford plant is located and just park the car in front of the gate and see what they do

 

[Figoian]

Hahahahahaha, Subbu, what a guess on Ford !! Kudos to you buddy

Ya... Thats 2 yrs of ownership of Ford Car.

BTW, had a trip to Gudiyatam (400 KMs up & down) for a wedding.

Guess the mileage? If the Trip Meter was set to "0".

 

[The Big foot giant]

Don't use the clutch to much as the engine takes in more fuel due to open gears

 

[anshuman8]

Ya... Thats 2 yrs of ownership of Ford Car.

BTW, had a trip to Gudiyatam (400 KMs up & down) for a wedding.

Guess the mileage? If the Trip Meter was set to "0".

View attachment 92580

Let me guess, around 19 -ish

 

[anshuman8]

OT from this thread @ Figoian.

I think I spotted your car today in HSR layout in the morning @ 10.40 a.m. You were taking an U turn in front of an accessory shop, I passed by in my Manza.