Failed Cars in India

[madaneeraj]

@Vipul I appreciate you realized your mistake of calling someone flop, as it needs courage to accept that in open forum. I think this is the soul of TAI. We all are down to earth, willing to learn, admit our mistakes and no one, even moderators are not autocratic. Kudos to the democracy of this forum.

XUV500 is an excellent product and should do good at current price, until and unless Mahindra goof up big time or Maruti comes up with a 10 Lac SUV
But yes time will tell, as in past excellent products failed to make it big due to some reason or other. But yes there was some reason and for XUV, reason still needs to be figure out.

above, I have quoted what I believe about XUV, It’s an excellent value proposition and a great, great product. I would say this is the best thing happened to Indian SUV market, and other manufacturers will definitely take a clue to develop products on the same line. Nothing better for Indian consumers which will have a plethora of choices. XUV has filled a huge gap between Scorpio/Safari and Endeavor.

As far as learning from own experience is considered I must say, In all good spirit, we all are here to learn from others. I cannot drive or experience 79+ models plying on Indian street with some unknown pedigrees like San Motors, Sonalika SUVs etc along with loads of imported and discarded motors.. Even if I am able to, i might not be able to figure out niggling issues concerning a % of issues.

Swift had a water logging issue (yes water used to deposit inside cabin), Indica had early tire wear out issue. Scorpio had gear issues and top of all, Safari had/have reliability issues. But does my vehicle have any of those, well no because only a percentage of vehicles have suffered. So I rely on what people say before going ahead with my purchase. I might not go for Skoda, as long I have heard sufficiently about improvement in A.S.S issue, regardless of the superiority in product.

And If I want to carry my family and primary criteria is comfort and space.
I might need to choose between Fortuner, Endeavor and Aria. Based on price and discount if I go for Aria I might consider that a smart buy. I have seen big families moving in Tata winger also, and feel happy for them. I call those as smart buyers who do not follow the crowd. They know their primary needs and are limited by a budget and decide the best possible option available.

Really loving this discussion.

Regards,
maddy

 

[TSIVipul]

Vipps you know how much I like you, but of course I don't need to agree with you every time.For the very first time I have seen chink in your argument, you have already said 9 days back this:

"Well,then Raj has done it absolutely wrong.
Aria still manages to sell in three figures and there are plenty of them on the road,really everyday you can spot one or two of them.
When Aria sales come in two figures only that day I'll believe her to be failed. "

And now just like raj you are calling Aria this:

"I haven't said that Aria owners are dumb,but then I haven't said that they are very smart too.There is quite a bit too much difference between what I meant and what you understood,I mean you haven't reached anywhere near the fact I have mentioned.
Definitely,a car which is getting outsold by its competition is a FLOP,you must try to be unbiased and same I try to be.I myself like the Aria over XUV,but HAVE I MENTIONED IT AS A FLOP?ACCEPT THE TRUTH AS IT IS.Same way my favorite SUV is Yeti,but its being outsold,so its a FAIL,whatever good it may be."

So now just like raj 5004 you believe that any car that is outsold by its competitor is flop.And on the other hand you say that you haven't mentioned Aria as flop!!

See dear Xovy,you are quite right at your point,and I at mine.
About the outselling,actually outselling means that a car simply swept away by the competition,while Aria in my views has the potential to still fight,so for Aria and some other cars which have a potential to rule some day in future,for those cars the failure is only after they fails to sell,so the two figure for Aria will be a failure.

About Yeti,its a failure because its launched before it was meant to,THE YETI IS FORWARD OF THE TIME ,Compact SUVs are future in India not a present seller,so Yeti is a failure.

Also with all this,a car selling less(even Aria)is also at the verge of flopping as its being outsold and is unable to catch the good figures at all,simple if the sales graph falls this way,then Aria is a definitely going to be declared a flop,an official flop.
SEE GUY,THE MARKET DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU LOVE OR HATE,BUT TRY TO HEAR THE VOICE OF MARKET AND MARKET SAYS WHAT I HAVE SAID...

 

[S Class]

Guys life is not only black and white, it is grey as well.Lord Buddha said that the 'medium way is the best way to live your life'.Now if a car is not segment leader, if its not super hit does it mean that its a flop? Then what about cars like Figo, Beat,Vista,Manza, none of them are segment leaders and the competition outsells these cars by a huge margin----can they really be called as flops!!Cm'on people there has to be a middle way, there has to a ground between hit and flop and that is where Tata Aria is at the moment.

+1. No point in saying No.1 as hit & No.2 as flop.

@Vipul I appreciate you realized your mistake of calling someone flop, as it needs courage to accept that in open forum. I think this is the soul of TAI. We all are down to earth, willing to learn, admit our mistakes and no one, even moderators are not autocratic. Kudos to the democracy of this forum.

maddy

This is indeed a beautiful forum . And thanks for your posts, reduced the strain on my fingers .

SEE GUY,THE MARKET DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU LOVE OR HATE,BUT TRY TO HEAR THE VOICE OF MARKET AND MARKET SAYS WHAT I HAVE SAID...

On other side, we can say this to be a HERD MENTALITY.....go what majority does without applying own brain. Harsh words, but true.
Classic eg. is of Dzire which did reasonably well.
Then came Q Class.......herd mentality- Toyota means very good....now see where are the people who booked & ask how many buyers are finding 'Q' in their cars.

Other aspect which I have personally seen multiple times is RESALE VALUE. Came across people who really loved X car, but bought Y just because it fetches more resale value. Me, on other end, is least bothered about resale value & will buy what I like & not what the market likes.
If 100 people forget RESALE VALUE; sales of various cars would change.

 

[raj_5004]

Tata Ace > Mahindra Maximo

Tata Magic > Mahindra Maximo MPV
Tata Iris + Zip > mahindra gio
Tata Heavy trucks > Mahindra Navistars
Tata City Ride > Mahindra Tourister
Tata 407/709 >> Mahindra ??

Only commercial vehicles? Well then, TATA is definetely better than Mahindra when it comes to commercial vehicles & I feel TATAs should stick to that & not enter the private sector!

Dude, you forgot the Bolero Pik up v/s Tata 207!

Tata Manza > Mahindra Verito

well, lets just talk about REAL mahindra products, made by Mahindra!

Come on buddy wake up , tata are not only jacks but master of many segment as well,mahindra always will be a second rate brand to tata no matter what they do!

Thats what you feel dude!

Tatas can make only good commercial vehicles. Infact, even in commercial vehicles, they have a bad reputation down south. We have a construction & travel company, we buy only Ashok Leyland & Mahindra. Because, TATAs though cheaper, are unreliable.

Tata Sumo back in 1994 destroyed Mahindra Armada,just wait how new Sumo Gold destroyes bolero, and how new Safari will kill both scorpio as well as that ugly wannabe Evoque cheeta XUV oh oh.

And see how mahindra fought back. Till now your TATA has not been able to touch the sales of bolero.

I myself agree that Sumo Gold is a better product than Bolero, but I can bet on it that even that wont affect the Bolero. Why? RELIABILITY. Customers of Sumo & Bolero buy it for rough use & reliability is of prime importance to them.

@ raj,

Your HIT = Number of cars sold logic is weird.
By this, you mean Alto is bigger hit than Altis just because it sells more ??

Dude, atleast compare sales numbers from the same segment! I have said this umpteen times in this same thread.

Selling well means,a car must sell in decent numbers considering its competition and its segment.So +1 to Raj.If car car is being outsold by its rivals,that also too badly then its definitely a flop.

that is exactly what I mean.

But coming to Aria,you can't still call it a flop because it still has a customer ground of its own,which even don't like the XUV(Okay,I don't want to argue,Aria is a Chhota(small) flop)..

Aria is a FLOP for me only because it dint manage to sell even decently in the segment where the XUV proved what a competetive car can do!

Definitely Aria can sell as good as XUV and can even outsell it.Who says Tata products are not reliable?

I say TATA cars are not reliable. But that is a seperate long debate.

Aria can sell quite well only if its priced well,EVEN RAJ HIMSELF WILL BUY ONE if he fees that its bang for buck.As an overall package,the Aria has the capability to beat the XUV,only if its offered at the prices,on which it is being offered now a days.

No. Till some days back, I was honestly considering the Aria, but after reading some horror stories, not anymore.

It is just a myth that people trust M&M products more than Tata,truth is that people trust M&M UVs more that those of Tata,else Verito would have been....

we are only talking about Mahindra's UVs. Verito is not a true Mahindra product.

+1,its a fact that Tata UVs are not matching M&M only because M&M has a exclusivity in them(leave the Verito)and its a fact that fame comes with exclusivity.But its also a fact that Tata UVs rules urban market while M&M UVs rule rural market.Simple:-
Every GRAM PRADHAAN buys a SCAARPIO(as they call it).
Every brickfield owner wants to buy a Bulero or Scaarpio.
Every Blaak(block) pramukh wants new a Scaarpio every six months..
Every farmer who sold his land wants a Scaarpio.
Every DAROGA JI wants a Scaarpio in his village house,hidden from vigilance department.
I mean,we people have came out of politics,but I still know a lot of people who contribute in thousands in the sale of SCAARPIOS..
Just come on roads and see,Safaris are mostly owned by city buyers.And the reason for Bolero and Scorpio to outsell Tatas is just MAHINDRA TRACTOR SERIES.

not true. even in mumbai city, i see more scorpios than safaris, more xylos than grande & more boleros than sumos.

TATAS REALLY WORK AND WORK QUITE WELL TOO.

Since you are talking about buses, i will like to tell you a fact. we were in the process of buying a bus some months back. we were shown two used buses also (though we were not buying a used bus). one was a AL, other was a TATA. both buses were owned by the same company, both had the same body & interior (built by PRAKASH) & both had run approx the same number of kms (some 2000 kms difference).

The AL was quoted a price of 17.5 lakhs whereas the TATA was quoted a price of 15.8 lakhs. TATAs dont have a good resale value since it is not a reliable vehicle. People buy it because it is CHEAP. This is a fact & not a myth. You can research in the market for this.

When we were buying new buses, we could have saved lakhs if we had opted for a TATA chassis, but every single person was dead against it. Even a close friend & well wisher from TATA was advising us to buy the AL!

Well,now you have started dreaming XOVY dear.Here I am again with RAJ.Bolero now has became a standard,not an SUV.And Tata Sumo was always considered a sub-standard thing.Bolero where represents ruggedness,the Sumo represents TAXI,so beating a BOLERO is right now a bit too for for Sumo.Only a shape change may help,none else.

+1. bolero is bought by private families too. I am yet to see a family buying the Sumo. Sumos are bought only as call centre cabs!

Youngsters buy the Bolero & pep it up with fat tyres & alloys & it looks killer - a mean & rugged SUV. Infact, such a Bolero is my dream SUV, in 4x4 avtar.

For what M&M is really meant to be praised is IF TATA BRINGS US TECHNOLOGY,THEN MAHINDRA BRINGS US THE LATEST AND BEST TECHNOLOGY and that too at a more affordable price.

Only on the Scorpio, Mahindra has the following technology -

Scorpio Hybrid (I am not talking about Micro Hybrid, this is an actual hybrid Scorpio!)
Scorpio Bio Diesel

Mahindra is suposedly the first to make a diesel hybrid SUV. They are also the first to have features like TPMS, Cruise control, Rain sensing wipers, Auto headlights, etc. in the Scorpio segment.

Again, look at what the XUV offers in that segment.

@ TSIVipul

Vipps you know how much I like you, but of course I don't need to agree with you every time.For the very first time I have seen chink in your argument, you have already said 9 days back this:


And now just like raj you are calling Aria this:


So now just like raj 5004 you believe that any car that is outsold by its competitor is flop.And on the other hand you say that you haven't mentioned Aria as flop!!

Sheesh! And you are not liking it?

 

[THE XOVER]

@ raj_5004
Cm'on buddy you never really considered Aria did you.As for reliability well I have read on a particular forum that a person has changed the steering wheel of his XUV 3 times yet his cruise control doesn't work, so much so for your reliable mahindra.
If AL and Mahindra are so reliable thaen why they are outsold by tata by atleast 10 times,now Mahindra products are as cheap as tata in CV sector yet tata is beating mahindra black and blue.As for AL in north India

AL=LEMON

 

[S Class]

Tatas can make only good commercial vehicles. Infact, even in commercial vehicles, they have a bad reputation down south. We have a construction & travel company, we buy only Ashok Leyland & Mahindra. Because, TATAs though cheaper, are unreliable.

And how many Navistars trucks did Mahindra manage to sell ?? I still not seen a single one on road.
And you come to North, AL gets Tata (bye bye) from transport cos.
Same is case with bikes, TVS dominates in south, Bajaj in west & Hero Honda in North & east.

Why? RELIABILITY. Customers of Sumo & Bolero buy it for rough use & reliability is of prime importance to them.

By this logic, Chevy is very reliable coz in Pune & nearby areas, Taveras are more than Sumo+Bolero put together !!

Dude, atleast compare sales numbers from the same segment! I have said this umpteen times in this same thread.

OK, but then why beat the drums with XUV Vs Fortuner then ??
Take firm stand.

Aria is a FLOP for me only because it dint manage to sell even decently in the segment where the XUV proved what a competetive car can do!

XUV got the nos because scorpio had proven itself. Just like Manza got good bookings based on Indigo.

I say TATA cars are not reliable. But that is a seperate long debate.

I have myself seen Scorpios broken down. Saw 2 scorpios broken down on Nagpur-Wardha highway when I was there in Oct this year.

No. Till some days back, I was honestly considering the Aria, but after reading some horror stories, not anymore.

C'mon, we all know you are biased towards Tata. Seen your anti-Merlin comment even the UV is still not launched !

we are only talking about Mahindra's UVs. Verito is not a true Mahindra product.

By that logic even Optra is not Chevys product, all Maruti diesel are not its product (engine comes from fiat), even Rapid is not Skodas product.

Since you are talking about buses, i will like to tell you a fact. we were in the process of buying a bus some months back. we were shown two used buses also (though we were not buying a used bus). one was a AL, other was a TATA. both buses were owned by the same company, both had the same body & interior (built by PRAKASH) & both had run approx the same number of kms (some 2000 kms difference).

PMPML (Pune metropolitan area transport) & Bangalore's public transport runs on Tata Marco-polo low floor buses & Volvo on some routes.
Not seen a single AL bus (low floor) in PMPML fleet.

The AL was quoted a price of 17.5 lakhs whereas the TATA was quoted a price of 15.8 lakhs. TATAs dont have a good resale value since it is not a reliable vehicle. People buy it because it is CHEAP. This is a fact & not a myth. You can research in the market for this.

Rather than saying bus, I would appreciate if you can tell the model.
Liked 1612 TC of Tata, Cheetah of AL etc.

+1. bolero is bought by private families too. I am yet to see a family buying the Sumo. Sumos are bought only as call centre cabs!

I know 2 families using Sumo. Btw, if Bolero is more reliable than Sumo, why call centre chaps buy/use Sumo especially when they keep running for over 8hrs/day ??

Youngsters buy the Bolero & pep it up with fat tyres & alloys & it looks killer - a mean & rugged SUV. Infact, such a Bolero is my dream SUV, in 4x4 avtar.

Bolero is SUV . Then what is Scorpio ?? Luxury cruiser ??

Only on the Scorpio, Mahindra has the following technology -

Scorpio Hybrid (I am not talking about Micro Hybrid, this is an actual hybrid Scorpio!)
Scorpio Bio Diesel

Tata has done electric vehicles & an engine is under development where engine will run on water.

They are also the first to have features like TPMS, Cruise control, Rain sensing wipers, Auto headlights, etc. in the Scorpio segment.

And many people are getting failures about these functions !!
Better have less features but which work properly than have 100 features which can fail anytime.

 

[mikeandy]

ford mondeo is also flop.

 

[THE XOVER]

Bolero is SUV . Then what is Scorpio ?? Luxury cruiser ??

Well said S Class, next raj would say XUV is Cruise missile
And Verito is S Class

 

[raj_5004]

@ raj_5004
Cm'on buddy you never really considered Aria did you.

I had. even decided the colour - white or gray.

As for reliability well I have read on a particular forum that a person has changed the steering wheel of his XUV 3 times yet his cruise control doesn't work, so much so for your reliable mahindra.

I read. Its damn irritating. But as i have mentioned before, what is more important to me is the reliability of vital components like the drive train. such electronic issues can be dealt with, though I am not saying it is acceptable, it is not.

but TATA gives mechanical issues, that is where the difference lies.

If AL and Mahindra are so reliable thaen why they are outsold by tata by atleast 10 times,now Mahindra products are as cheap as tata in CV sector yet tata is beating mahindra black and blue.As for AL in north India

Mahindra has never been a hit in the commercial market, thats a fact. because they have never been really bothered to take it seriously above their pik ups, which is the segment leader.

as i said, TATAs outsell ALs because they are "cheap".

And how many Navistars trucks did Mahindra manage to sell ?? I still not seen a single one on road.

None. even that is a FLOP, who is denying that?

OK, but then why beat the drums with XUV Vs Fortuner then ??
Take firm stand.

Dude, have i even compared the sales figures of XUV v/s Fortuner? My first post in this thread was that this comparison is unfair!

XUV got the nos because scorpio had proven itself. Just like Manza got good bookings based on Indigo.

That is just your "assumption". Why did Aria not sell because Safari is "proven" or as everyone says is a "cult" vehicle!?

I have myself seen Scorpios broken down. Saw 2 scorpios broken down on Nagpur-Wardha highway when I was there in Oct this year.

I dont remember seeing broken down scorpios. I myself have a 2 Lac kms driven Scorpio which has not had a single breakdown except one because of negligence.

C'mon, we all know you are biased towards Tata. Seen your anti-Merlin comment even the UV is still not launched !

I am not bisaed towards TATA!

I am not anti-Merlin either. Infact I am waiting for that SUV to be launched before I decide on a new car. I am also waiting for the new Captiva.

I just said, the older one looks better & that is purely my subjective opinion, whats wrong in that?

By that logic even Optra is not Chevys product, all Maruti diesel are not its product (engine comes from fiat), even Rapid is not Skodas product.

no comments.

PMPML (Pune metropolitan area transport) & Bangalore's public transport runs on Tata Marco-polo low floor buses & Volvo on some routes.
Not seen a single AL bus (low floor) in PMPML fleet.

AL did not have a low floor bus until now.

Most Govt. buses are TATAs because they are cheap.

I recollect some thing. Mumbai's BEST (bus service) is awarded the best service in the country. They are known to maintain their buses so well that you rarely find a BEST broken down. Did you notice that all their buses are AL??

Secondly, BEST ordered some few TATA buses too. Do you know why it was discontinued & again AL chassis was ordered, inspite of AL being more expensive? Because the very same TATA buses could not handle the abuse and broke down. BEST soon made amends & shifted back to AL. Also, BEST had ordered low floor AC buses (4 nos.) from TATA. 2 of them caught fire, the other 2 were discontinued from service beause of the risk. since AL did not have a low floor chassis & Volvo did not have diesel-CNG engines, BEST was forced to buy buses from King Long.

The above are facts and not just assumptions.

I know 2 families using Sumo. Btw, if Bolero is more reliable than Sumo, why call centre chaps buy/use Sumo especially when they keep running for over 8hrs/day ??

Because call centre guys need a cheap vehicle & bolero is costlier. simple. they dont care even if the vehicle break down as they anyways sell it off within 3-4 years.

Bolero is SUV . Then what is Scorpio ?? Luxury cruiser ??

Yep, Bolero 4x4 is an SUV. infact, bolero can do things which even the Scorpio & Safari cant. Ask a hardcore off roader to know the vehicle's capabilities.

if i am in the market for an off roader, i will buy the Bolero 4x4 or Thar. cheap, rugged & good off road ability.

And many people are getting failures about these functions !!
Better have less features but which work properly than have 100 features which can fail anytime.

Toyota = less features + no failures
Mahindra = more features + gizmo issues
TATA = more features + breakdowns

You choose!

Well said S Class, next raj would say XUV is Cruise missile
And Verito is S Class

Nopes, I dont have the habit of posting senseless comments.

 

[TSIVipul]

Now its too much,AB MERI BAARI(now my chance)..

Only commercial vehicles? Well then, TATA is definetely better than Mahindra when it comes to commercial vehicles & I feel TATAs should stick to that & not enter the private sector!

Still Tata sells far more cars then M&M,then M&M should return back to tractor industry and sell them only.You are now getting a bit too much eager on bashing Tata,okay dear.Let the Merlin get launched and let the Aria's prices be finalized in January with XUV's prices too,then I'll surely have a good long debate with you.

Dude, you forgot the Bolero Pik up v/s Tata 207!

Okay,when you visited Delhi last time?

well, lets just talk about REAL mahindra products, made by Mahindra!

Yes MHawk engine is made by some European(I think French that company is)with M&M,so even the MHawk is also not purely a Mahindra,hmmm?I am sure you didn't knew this fact,but it is.I have read it in ACI mag some two years back.So you must compare the Aria with Scorpio 2.6 CRDe.
Simple as it sounds,if the product is selling with that M&M logo,then its surely a Mahindra and now a days Mahindra is making Verito,not Renault.

Tatas can make only good commercial vehicles. Infact, even in commercial vehicles, they have a bad reputation down south. We have a construction & travel company, we buy only Ashok Leyland & Mahindra. Because, TATAs though cheaper, are unreliable.

Up,North,they are better,about the construction and travel company etc etc,by mistake my father Mr.A.P.Singh(name mentioned so that you can verify from your sources)is an ex MLA and currently a highway contractor and trucks and all are our daily issues.
Second mistake:Chaudhary tpt. co. here in Meerut consists of 11 CVs(no buses only trucks),all contracted with different companies,and my father owns it.
No doubt,ALs are good at hauling loads and are really good for long routes but our Tatas are also working good(I am not interested in them,so can't bet on anything).
But I am not at all ready to agree that Tatas are not reliable.

And see how mahindra fought back. Till now your TATA has not been able to touch the sales of bolero.

Have I anywhere said that Bolero is being outsold by Sumo??Dear as I have already mentioned,you have now started going a different way,the bashing way that is.

I myself agree that Sumo Gold is a better product than Bolero, but I can bet on it that even that wont affect the Bolero. Why? RELIABILITY. Customers of Sumo & Bolero buy it for rough use & reliability is of prime importance to them.

+1,no doubt.

Dude, atleast compare sales numbers from the same segment! I have said this umpteen times in this same thread.

Well,then why XUV Vs fortuner?I am sure if you price XUV at 18 lacs then even a single won't sell.Oops sorry one will sell,RAJ WILL BUY IT.

I say TATA cars are not reliable. But that is a seperate long debate.
No. Till some days back, I was honestly considering the Aria, but after reading some horror stories, not anymore.

Then prove it,simple.I have kept Safari for 18k kms,a Scorpio for 11k kms,none gave me any trouble.WHEN I AM NOT BIASING TOWARDS ANYONE THEN WHY YOU ARE?
Only problem is that there are a lot of people in the market saying that Skodas are also horrific,then I bought a Laura TSI,ran the car for 40k+ kms and they are proved wrong.
I know three Aria customers,all three happy(met them separately and heard their experiences),I am also saying that Tata cars are reliable,but I have MY OWN experience to back it,not the read articles etc.

we are only talking about Mahindra's UVs. Verito is not a true Mahindra product.

I think I have already said MHawk is also not purely M&M,now should be dump Scorpios??Then M&M should sell the Veritos outside the showrooms.Right?

not true. even in mumbai city, i see more scorpios than safaris, more xylos than grande & more boleros than sumos.

Why?Can't villagers take their cars to cities?

Since you are talking about buses, i will like to tell you a fact. we were in the process of buying a bus some months back. we were shown two used buses also (though we were not buying a used bus). one was a AL, other was a TATA. both buses were owned by the same company, both had the same body & interior (built by PRAKASH) & both had run approx the same number of kms (some 2000 kms difference).

The AL was quoted a price of 17.5 lakhs whereas the TATA was quoted a price of 15.8 lakhs. TATAs dont have a good resale value since it is not a reliable vehicle. People buy it because it is CHEAP. This is a fact & not a myth. You can research in the market for this.

When we were buying new buses, we could have saved lakhs if we had opted for a TATA chassis, but every single person was dead against it. Even a close friend & well wisher from TATA was advising us to buy the AL!

I can show you more than a hundred truckers here in north crying that AL spares are either not available in abundance or they are expensive,and yes.I am sharing my OWN experience.About MH I don't know.Ours are contracted with GPL,Hero Honda(Gurgaon),Hero Honda(Haridwar) and JSW(Dharuhera-Gurgaon),all running well and no complains.

+1. bolero is bought by private families too. I am yet to see a family buying the Sumo. Sumos are bought only as call centre cabs!

Youngsters buy the Bolero & pep it up with fat tyres & alloys & it looks killer - a mean & rugged SUV. Infact, such a Bolero is my dream SUV, in 4x4 avtar.

No doubt,such Boleros really look killer and even I too want to own one black Bolero with good black alloys,black tints and good fat KCs or other aftermarket lights.Really,nothing beats a Bolero here,Sumo is simply nowhere near the Bolero when this comes.

Only on the Scorpio, Mahindra has the following technology -

Scorpio Hybrid (I am not talking about Micro Hybrid, this is an actual hybrid Scorpio!)
Scorpio Bio Diesel

I think new Bolero too has got the micro hybrid in the ZLX

Mahindra is suposedly the first to make a diesel hybrid SUV. They are also the first to have features like TPMS, Cruise control, Rain sensing wipers, Auto headlights, etc. in the Scorpio segment.

Again, look at what the XUV offers in that segment.

Damn,low quality Chinese electronic goods they are.I won't say anything else because I am yet to see anyone himself complaining,as I don't believe those fake articles.

And how many Navistars trucks did Mahindra manage to sell ?? I still not seen a single one on road.
And you come to North, AL gets Tata (bye bye) from transport cos.
Same is case with bikes, TVS dominates in south, Bajaj in west & Hero Honda in North & east.

+1,its not Mumbai/South everywhere.

OK, but then why beat the drums with XUV Vs Fortuner then ??
Take firm stand.

I have also mentioned the same...

XUV got the nos because scorpio had proven itself. Just like Manza got good bookings based on Indigo.

++1,no doubt.Same way like Qualis made way for Innova.

I have myself seen Scorpios broken down. Saw 2 scorpios broken down on Nagpur-Wardha highway when I was there in Oct this year.

Any car can break down buddy,even Mercs and Bimmers too can,so no issue it is.

C'mon, we all know you are biased towards Tata. Seen your anti-Merlin comment even the UV is still not launched !

Oops,how I missed it?

By that logic even Optra is not Chevys product, all Maruti diesel are not its product (engine comes from fiat), even Rapid is not Skodas product.

Yeah dear,we are driving Fiats on the name of Swift...

PMPML (Pune metropolitan area transport) & Bangalore's public transport runs on Tata Marco-polo low floor buses & Volvo on some routes.
Not seen a single AL bus (low floor) in PMPML fleet.

Even a major part of DTC,UPSRTC,USRTC,HRSRTC and many more here in North is Tata.THE UNRELIABLE TATAS SELL EVEN IN FOREIGN TOO,WHILE NO AL'S GO THERE,I have somewhere read that TATA is amongst the largest CV makers of the world.

I know 2 families using Sumo. Btw, if Bolero is more reliable than Sumo, why call centre chaps buy/use Sumo especially when they keep running for over 8hrs/day ??

Dear Bolero is really more reliable than Sumo,no doubt.
They are not used in call centers because they lack on space(Leave the XL).But now a days Sumos too have gone out,now its Grandes,Xylos,Taveras and Innovas.

Tata has done electric vehicles & an engine is under development where engine will run on water.

You have also started dreaming now.Let the rumors and those dream projects be in dreams only,okay.

And many people are getting failures about these functions !!
Better have less features but which work properly than have 100 features which can fail anytime.

Can't say anything,yet to see an owner in font of my eyes.

Argument on this topic closes for me now...

 

[TSIVipul]

I had. even decided the colour - white or gray.

Raj,now XOVER will fell in love with you and will ask you to think of Aria once more...

AL did not have a low floor bus until now.

Most Govt. buses are TATAs because they are cheap.

Now you really need to visit Delhi,many new Delhi Transit low floor buses are AL and many red colored low floor A/C buses are also AL and those buses have front DISC brakes too.

 

[raj_5004]

Raj,now XOVER will fell in love with you and will ask you to think of Aria once more...

Now you really need to visit Delhi,many new Delhi Transit low floor buses are AL and many red colored low floor A/C buses are also AL and those buses have front DISC brakes too.

AL launched the low floor chassis some 10-11 months back i guess.

 

[raj_5004]

Still Tata sells far more cars then M&M,then M&M should return back to tractor industry and sell them only.

Because TATA has 7-8 models in their line up buddy, Mahindra has only 4! Dont count the total number of cars, count the numbers segment wise. Also, Mahindra's cheapest vehicle costs 7 lakhs, TATA's cost 3.5, so...

Okay,when you visited Delhi last time?

Want to, not even once!

Yes MHawk engine is made by some European(I think French that company is)with M&M,so even the MHawk is also not purely a Mahindra,hmmm?

incorrect. mHawk is made by Mahindra in collaboration with AVL. AVL only supplies some crucial components of the common rail. for that matter, even Bosch supplies some components to FIAT for the Multijet. does that mean its not FIAT's engine?

I am sure you didn't knew this fact,but it is.I have read it in ACI mag some two years back.So you must compare the Aria with Scorpio 2.6 CRDe.
Simple as it sounds,if the product is selling with that M&M logo,then its surely a Mahindra and now a days Mahindra is making Verito,not Renault.

What i meant was that Mahindra has not "designed" the Verito. it was Renault's creation!

Up,North,they are better,about the construction and travel company etc etc,by mistake my father Mr.A.P.Singh(name mentioned so that you can verify from your sources)is an ex MLA and currently a highway contractor and trucks and all are our daily issues.
Second mistake:Chaudhary tpt. co. here in Meerut consists of 11 CVs(no buses only trucks),all contracted with different companies,and my father owns it.
No doubt,ALs are good at hauling loads and are really good for long routes but our Tatas are also working good(I am not interested in them,so can't bet on anything).
But I am not at all ready to agree that Tatas are not reliable.

see, it depends... My experiences with TATAs & from what i hearsay here in South, I would avoid a TATA!

Have I anywhere said that Bolero is being outsold by Sumo??

You have not, someone else has!

Well,then why XUV Vs fortuner?

I have been asking the same question from the day this thread was created!

I am sure if you price XUV at 18 lacs then even a single won't sell.Oops sorry one will sell,RAJ WILL BUY IT.

Nopes, I wont buy the XUV for 18 lakhs, not worth it. Max I would shell out 15 lacs (on-road) for AWD our A/T variant of XUV.

Then prove it,simple.I have kept Safari for 18k kms,a Scorpio for 11k kms,none gave me any trouble.WHEN I AM NOT BIASING TOWARDS ANYONE THEN WHY YOU ARE?

Because i have had bad experiences!

Why?Can't villagers take their cars to cities?

those cars would be Mh 01/02/03 registered?

I can show you more than a hundred truckers here in north crying that AL spares are either not available in abundance or they are expensive,and yes.I am sharing my OWN experience.About MH I don't know.Ours are contracted with GPL,Hero Honda(Gurgaon),Hero Honda(Haridwar) and JSW(Dharuhera-Gurgaon),all running well and no complains.

yes, AL spares are more expensive because they are better quality & they last longer.

 

[THE XOVER]

I had. even decided the colour - white or gray.

You like Aria,I know it,but you will never buy it why because we all know your love towards tata,oops did i say love

I read. Its damn irritating. But as i have mentioned before, what is more important to me is the reliability of vital components like the drive train. such electronic issues can be dealt with, though I am not saying it is acceptable, it is not.

Mahindra better wake up because this segment is simply uncompromising.

but TATA gives mechanical issues, that is where the difference lies.

My Tata has never given me any mechanical trouble in the last 5 year,neither any of my friends,why should i then accept your theory that every single tata breaks dowm.

Mahindra has never been a hit in the commercial market, thats a fact. because they have never been really bothered to take it seriously above their pik ups, which is the segment leader.

True I hardly see any maximo or gio in comparison to Ace/,Magic,even though these mahindras are as cheap as tata.

as i said, TATAs outsell ALs because they are "cheap".

What are you harping upon,just because you have a transport business you think you know all about CV segment.Just take a look at Tata Prima series which is way more expensive than AL U series.Also dude now both tata and AL are using same CUMMINS engine and gearbox.Now tatas are as costly and reliable as AL,period.

I dont remember seeing broken down scorpios. I myself have a 2 Lac kms driven Scorpio which has not had a single breakdown except one because of negligence.

My cousin owns a Scorpio, turbo 2.6 LX,and she had 2 break downs so far.In comparison Bombay Indicabs cover almost 1 lakh km per year yet go strong for many years,so mahindra is only more reliable in paper.

I am not biased towards TATA!

Yes of course we all know

Most Govt. buses are TATAs because they are cheap.

This is bashing of a brand to its limit.

Because call centre guys need a cheap vehicle & bolero is costlier. simple. they dont care even if the vehicle break down as they anyways sell it off within 3-4 years.

Wrong ask any north indian villager he will tell you Bolero is more easy to maintain, call centre people use Sumo because its more spacious and comfortable.

Nopes I dont have the habit of posting senseless comments.

Yes I totally agree, just wanted to take a look at some of your posts:
1.Bolero is SUV
2.XUV has got Traction control bundled with ESP.
3.Every single tata is unreliable.
4.Tata only sells because they are cheap.

Thanks buddy for all the guru "sensefull" gyan.

 

[raj_5004]

You like Aria,I know it,but you will never buy it why because we all know your love towards tata,oops did i say love

+10.

Mahindra better wake up because this segment is simply uncompromising.

+100.

My Tata has never given me any mechanical trouble in the last 5 year,neither any of my friends,why should i then accept your theory that every single tata breaks dowm.

Who is asking you to accept? you jotted down your opinions, I did mine!

True I hardly see any maximo or gio in comparison to Ace/,Magic,even though these mahindras are as cheap as tata.

check out the prices buddy. tata ace costs 2.4 lacs ex-showroom & maximmo costs 3.15 lacs. thats a considerable difference.

please atleast bother to check out the prices before comparing.

What are you harping upon,just because you have a transport business you think you know all about CV segment.

Where have i stated something like that?

Just take a look at Tata Prima series which is way more expensive than AL U series.Also dude now both tata and AL are using same CUMMINS engine and gearbox.Now tatas are as costly and reliable as AL,period.

Dude, lets not talk about Prima series. they are the more expensive & powerful, kind of luxury trucks which hardly sell.

My cousin owns a Scorpio, turbo 2.6 LX,and she had 2 break downs so far.In comparison Bombay Indicabs cover almost 1 lakh km per year yet go strong for many years,so mahindra is only more reliable in paper.

same reply as above then - why should i accept?

This is bashing of a brand to its limit.

Cant help it if you think so.

call centre people use Sumo because its more spacious and comfortable.

Why should call centre guys care about comfort? they are going to take customers on a vacation in that car?

all they care about is how cheap it is & how fuel efficient it is.

Yes I totally agree, just wanted to take a look at some of your posts:
1.Bolero is SUV

Dude, just get a reality check. ask any off roader & they would say, after the jeeps & gypsys, if there is any good off roader in the budget segment, it is the Bolero 4x4. If you cant accept that, google...

2.XUV has got Traction control bundled with ESP.

Tried putting some sense through various means, dint work. Accepted defeat!

3.Every single tata is unreliable.

Please quote where I have mentioned something like this. Dont twist my words to suit your own whims & fancies please.

4.Tata only sells because they are cheap.

True. Except the Safari & Aria, which for the same reason, does not sell well.