All-New Ford Endeavour Now in India

[1989rs500]

Re: New Ford Endeavour Launching in Jan 2016 in India

I have the same feeling. Here is my reasoning:

Ford would want to sell without upgrades until they relaunch it with new Engine series (locally made), it may take at least 3-4 years. Let us assume 1500 cars per month in India and above is their strategy, based on the past history, it is very optimistic, and only with a competitive price they can win hearts easily and sell a high figure each month.
They will also want a large satisfied customer base to attain the same sales figure even after the new Fortuner, CR-V Diesel launches. (I assume Honda is making CRV-D for India). Low margin, and high volume is something Ford can offer to beat greedily priced Toyota.

This MUST be possible for Ford with high localisation, and increasing localisation month after month to keep the price low without affected by the $ value fluctuation.

Right now, 20% localisation should help them to keep the price within 30L even for the top end - as per current pricing of other SUVs in this segment. I am sure they can start from 20L (and not 24 or 27), with mostly the electronics and sensors which are cheap in this era of sensors.

Mahindra already started doing serious ads for XUV Auto box - reviews are already very much positive, and I am sure we can start seeing the sales dent it makes in Fortuner soon. So this segment is going to feel the price war, if not now - within 2017 when we have more products. Santa Fe is already out due to high-price, knowing this Hyundai is started thinking about manufacturing Tuson, we speculate it, to be offered within this price segment.

Ford, in 2015 gave surprises. They withdraw the high priced Fiesta. They offered two fantastic products for the right price. As a team, I see Ford which already understood Indian customers. I hear service is improved. With all this positive moves, with this class product - I am sure Ford can kill the premium SUV markets. I see no reason for German SUV lovers who buy it for Luxury after seeing Endeavour, we see Endeavour as a luxury class product- so it should take away X1, X3, Q3, and even Freelander lovers.

I beleive Ford is going to surprise us all with a very low starting and ending prices. :-)

(Question: will 2L Ecoboost an additional choice for India/Delhi which Ford omitted this time?)

Sure I agree that a great pricing is under Fords radar, but 20 lakhs for a ladder frame SUV with even the base variants coming with advanced suspension and almost all goodies like power adjusting seats,ACC,a good 2.2l engine with 160 HP, think of it even the Octavia TDi has just 150 HP, leather seats, SYNC 2, 18" alloy wheels, its kind of un believable, the Endeavor has 2 frames a fully fledged frame that attaches it to chassis and a sub frame which can help it tow , more over its CKD not built in India like Ecosport and Figo /Aspire, so as per my thoughts there is no way Ford can price it like 20 lakhs starting price even for base 2.2 Trend model, this is a full blown SUV unlike any other in this price range, the drive train is made to go beyond limits, its 4x4 can easily rival Land Rovers and worlds best off roaders and yet if Ford can manage to price the 3.2 TDCi Titanium at like under 30 lakhs ex showroom again it will be like a Herculean task and a gamble for Ford, so I believe they will price it between 24-32 lakhs ex showroom
The Endeavor may be a premium SUV but Indians are bound by image, a Ford will never give an Indian the image an Audi Q3 or even A3 gives, so I dont think it will lure luxury buyers
Fortuner actually is now like the 2003 Endeavor now, while back in 2008 when Fortuner was launched the old Ford Endeavor felt like a big old 70s SUV, same way the Fortuner will feel like a an old 90s SUV in front of new Endy, but again its a Toyota and for an average Indian, Toyota=Reliable, Toyota=less maintenance cost, so Ford will have to fight with Toyota despite all of its advantages, then there is the superb new Innova to shave a huge portion of new big Fords and XUV 500s success,
So I dont think Ford will get 1500 sales a year, at best they will sell 1000 SUVs a year, even if priced like 20-30 lakhs, so why not price it between 24-32,33 lakhs and get the extra benefits.
ford will localize new Endeavor by localizing engine 1st thats the 2.2 will be made in India by 2017 code named Panther, then on localization will be around 40-50% and only by 2020 they can localize it fully, so there isnt much hope on localized production resulting in less cost, but the localization can ensure better reliability and lower spare costs

 

[carbage]

Re: New Ford Endeavour Launching in Jan 2016 in India

Sure I agree that a great pricing is under Fords radar, but 20 lakhs for a ladder frame SUV with even the base variants coming with advanced suspension and almost all goodies like power adjusting seats,ACC,a good 2.2l engine with 160 HP, think of it even the Octavia TDi has just 150 HP, leather seats, SYNC 2, 18" alloy wheels, its kind of un believable, the Endeavor has 2 frames a fully fledged frame that attaches it to chassis and a sub frame which can help it tow , more over its CKD not built in India like Ecosport and Figo /Aspire, so as per my thoughts there is no way Ford can price it like 20 lakhs starting price even for base 2.2 Trend model, this is a full blown SUV unlike any other in this price range, the drive train is made to go beyond limits, its 4x4 can easily rival Land Rovers and worlds best off roaders and yet if Ford can manage to price the 3.2 TDCi Titanium at like under 30 lakhs ex showroom again it will be like a Herculean task and a gamble for Ford, so I believe they will price it between 24-32 lakhs ex showroom
The Endeavor may be a premium SUV but Indians are bound by image, a Ford will never give an Indian the image an Audi Q3 or even A3 gives, so I dont think it will lure luxury buyers
Fortuner actually is now like the 2003 Endeavor now, while back in 2008 when Fortuner was launched the old Ford Endeavor felt like a big old 70s SUV, same way the Fortuner will feel like a an old 90s SUV in front of new Endy, but again its a Toyota and for an average Indian, Toyota=Reliable, Toyota=less maintenance cost, so Ford will have to fight with Toyota despite all of its advantages, then there is the superb new Innova to shave a huge portion of new big Fords and XUV 500s success,
So I dont think Ford will get 1500 sales a year, at best they will sell 1000 SUVs a year, even if priced like 20-30 lakhs, so why not price it between 24-32,33 lakhs and get the extra benefits.
ford will localize new Endeavor by localizing engine 1st thats the 2.2 will be made in India by 2017 code named Panther, then on localization will be around 40-50% and only by 2020 they can localize it fully, so there isnt much hope on localized production resulting in less cost, but the localization can ensure better reliability and lower spare costs

Well, I agree, 1500 is an optimistic figure as Ford has an attractive product.

But New Fortuner, Innova, XUV etc are still a threat. I do not think current Fortuner looks as dated as a 10 year phased out Endeavour. Fortunes still has 4 digit sales. Also, I do not think there is a very big generation gap between current Fortuner and new Endy. Considering this, I do not think Ford can succeed even with the new one if they price it beyond 35L. Also, Ford doesn't have a huge fan base, like you said, for Toyota.

(Take another example, Autocar India review say Chevy's Trailblazer a 'Performance SUV' - But who looks at that after the price and the brand it has.)

There is a segment, who wants to buy BMW or Audi the first time, But with service and maintenance price horror stories make them do so hesitatingly has a strong option this time to turn back to Ford. This is my guess. So, there could be slight to moderate impact on the low-end luxury german brands too.

However - My positive view is about the changes we see in Ford from last year, and their understanding about the Indian buyers. :-) That is something they may not miss while pricing and after sales service.

 

[1989rs500]

Re: New Ford Endeavour Launching in Jan 2016 in India

Well, I agree, 1500 is an optimistic figure as Ford has an attractive product.

But New Fortuner, Innova, XUV etc are still a threat. I do not think current Fortuner looks as dated as a 10 year phased out Endeavour. Fortunes still has 4 digit sales. Also, I do not think there is a very big generation gap between current Fortuner and new Endy. Considering this, I do not think Ford can succeed even with the new one if they price it beyond 35L. Also, Ford doesn't have a huge fan base, like you said, for Toyota.

(Take another example, Autocar India review say Chevy's Trailblazer a 'Performance SUV' - But who looks at that after the price and the brand it has.)

There is a segment, who wants to buy BMW or Audi the first time, But with service and maintenance price horror stories make them do so hesitatingly has a strong option this time to turn back to Ford. This is my guess. So, there could be slight to moderate impact on the low-end luxury german brands too.

However - My positive view is about the changes we see in Ford from last year, and their understanding about the Indian buyers. :-) That is something they may not miss while pricing and after sales service.

The Endeavor vs Fortuner thing its a big generation gap, actually one has to drive the current Fortuner to understand it, its rough and has a bad ride quality, I felt even XUV 500 has better ride quality than Fortuner, then comes the 4x4 with 2 gears, have you seen how ugly it looks and it is to use? I have and then the engine, sure the 3.0 D4D is good but the 2.5 is super sluggish,
The Fortuner sells on brand image and looks and, according to cars of 2015 the Fortuner does feel a tad out dated compared to the Endeavor

regarding pricing the Endeavor 3.2 and 2.2 AWD comes with Watts linkage and independent coils and springs for the rear axle, also the 4x4 with independent wheel locking etc are serious off road kits,one might find it in 3 or words in the brochure but that suspension system is an extremely complex and powerful tool, its actually as good as JLR products in terms of taking on terrain etc, even VAGs Haldex system is inferior to what Ford has used the Quattros in Q3,Q5 are nearly as potent as what Endeavor has to offer, so the 4x4 offering are no way joke they are easily among the top 3 off road technologies on earth, so if that costs 35 lakhs too it dosent mean its over priced according to me

Regarding TrailBlazer, frankly speaking its a pakka failure product, no 4x4, no MT, no special suspension to counter the bad roads of India,interior is drab and way poor than new Endeavor, GM may have been market leader for over 8 decades but in India they are easily among top 3 the worst manufacturers

Again luxury car buyers over 80% of them buy them for badge and I dont think a Ford badge has a value that gets more appreciation than a German badge, no luxury car buyer thinks of VFM,

 

[carbage]

Re: New Ford Endeavour Launching in Jan 2016 in India

The Endeavor vs Fortuner thing its a big generation gap, actually one has to drive the current Fortuner to understand it, its rough and has a bad ride quality, I felt even XUV 500 has better ride quality than Fortuner, then comes the 4x4 with 2 gears, have you seen how ugly it looks and it is to use? I have and then the engine, sure the 3.0 D4D is good but the 2.5 is super sluggish,
The Fortuner sells on brand image and looks and, according to cars of 2015 the Fortuner does feel a tad out dated compared to the Endeavor

regarding pricing the Endeavor 3.2 and 2.2 AWD comes with Watts linkage and independent coils and springs for the rear axle, also the 4x4 with independent wheel locking etc are serious off road kits,one might find it in 3 or words in the brochure but that suspension system is an extremely complex and powerful tool, its actually as good as JLR products in terms of taking on terrain etc, even VAGs Haldex system is inferior to what Ford has used the Quattros in Q3,Q5 are nearly as potent as what Endeavor has to offer, so the 4x4 offering are no way joke they are easily among the top 3 off road technologies on earth, so if that costs 35 lakhs too it dosent mean its over priced according to me

Regarding TrailBlazer, frankly speaking its a pakka failure product, no 4x4, no MT, no special suspension to counter the bad roads of India,interior is drab and way poor than new Endeavor, GM may have been market leader for over 8 decades but in India they are easily among top 3 the worst manufacturers

Again luxury car buyers over 80% of them buy them for badge and I dont think a Ford badge has a value that gets more appreciation than a German badge, no luxury car buyer thinks of VFM,

Wow. Thanks for being in this thread, its fortunate to have to as a new Endeavour lover (can I say so?) and throwing lot of tech details. I am learning it gradually.

I own a 6.5 years old 4X2 Scorpio(at that time there was no 4 wheel drive), and didn't go for much off roading - except few short but good trips (and never damaged the suspension though).

This time, after reading your previous post, my mind is settled with 2.2, 4X2 (praying for a 30L south pricing) :-), though kids like the folding seats, moon roof etc. Let the thrill continue till 19th.

Two quick questions: Since you mentioned VAGs Haldex system, and I see it from BorgWarner, could that have been offered from their Chennai (as part of the localization)though I do not believe traction systems are manufactured in India.

Q2: I think Ford should think about 2.0L EcoBoost (keeping Delhi in mind), in india too. Will they?

 

[1989rs500]

Re: New Ford Endeavour Launching in Jan 2016 in India

Wow. Thanks for being in this thread, its fortunate to have to as a new Endeavour lover (can I say so?) and throwing lot of tech details. I am learning it gradually.

I own a 6.5 years old 4X2 Scorpio(at that time there was no 4 wheel drive), and didn't go for much off roading - except few short but good trips (and never damaged the suspension though).

This time, after reading your previous post, my mind is settled with 2.2, 4X2 (praying for a 30L south pricing) :-), though kids like the folding seats, moon roof etc. Let the thrill continue till 19th.

Two quick questions: Since you mentioned VAGs Haldex system, and I see it from BorgWarner, could that have been offered from their Chennai (as part of the localization)though I do not believe traction systems are manufactured in India.

Q2: I think Ford should think about 2.0L EcoBoost (keeping Delhi in mind), in india too. Will they?

1. I still believe Quattro is an Haldex clutch based AWD system, its a coupling that can engage and disengage depending on needs, so while cruising etc the Q3,!5 is essentially FWD.

2. I for one always love a petrol engine but our country is too economy conscious, so wont get the expected sales, so Ford might have laid back that decision, I would like an even bigger petrol engine like the 2.7l TT ecoboost v6 inside Endeavour

 

[manish12345]

Re: New Ford Endeavour Launching in Jan 2016 in India

I'm sure it's gonna beat Fortuner but if a person buys car that costs above 25 lakhs will he worried about maintenance costs? I think many owners won't worry.

 

[1989rs500]

Re: New Ford Endeavour Launching in Jan 2016 in India

I'm sure it's gonna beat Fortuner but if a person buys car that costs above 25 lakhs will he worried about maintenance costs? I think many owners won't worry.

More than cost time and perfection of work matters, thats the strongest point of Toyota, easy to work with, less time for services, cheapness adds to the icing of cake.

 

[manish12345]

Re: New Ford Endeavour Launching in Jan 2016 in India

More than cost time and perfection of work matters, thats the strongest point of Toyota, easy to work with, less time for services, cheapness adds to the icing of cake.

Don't forget Toyota uses Simple Old-School Tech!! That's why they take very less time.

 

[1989rs500]

Re: New Ford Endeavour Launching in Jan 2016 in India

Don't forget Toyota uses Simple Old-School Tech!! That's why they take very less time.

Yeah and it works most of the time and more people find that more satisfying than complicated technologies, engine components are sealed for life in Toyota unlike Ford,VW,Renault GM etx where post 1 lakh kms anything can go wrong,
Filters,brake pads everything for Toyota is more durable and is made for durability than performance,
the Innove engine for eg makes just 100 bhp from a 2.4l block, and thats seviourly under powered but the unit is very strong and reliable,makes less boost so turbos,and pistons etc run free of pressure for over 2 lakh kms, internal parts too come friction free snd has lot of simple technologies that make it easy for a technitian to understand,
Its a choice between what one wants durability,reliability,cost,time
Or
Power,performance,ability,avergae reliability,durability,time...

 

[torque.addict]

Re: New Ford Endeavour Launching in Jan 2016 in India

Yeah and it works most of the time and more people find that more satisfying than complicated technologies, engine components are sealed for life in Toyota unlike Ford,VW,Renault GM etx where post 1 lakh kms anything can go wrong,
Filters,brake pads everything for Toyota is more durable and is made for durability than performance,
the Innove engine for eg makes just 100 bhp from a 2.4l block, and thats seviourly under powered but the unit is very strong and reliable,makes less boost so turbos,and pistons etc run free of pressure for over 2 lakh kms, internal parts too come friction free snd has lot of simple technologies that make it easy for a technitian to understand,
Its a choice between what one wants durability,reliability,cost,time
Or
Power,performance,ability,avergae reliability,durability,time...

Slightly off-topic, but yes, I agree with this. My father's Innova has clicked 4.22 lakh kms and factory fitted clutch was replaced at 3.85 lakh kms. Front suspension and rear suspension replaced once. Ball joints replaced 3-4 times and wheel bearings replaced once. But nothing besides this and routine services. Still car works like new mechanically.

 

[1989rs500]

Re: New Ford Endeavour Launching in Jan 2016 in India

here is a video of a big SUV comparo, and guess what the new Endeavor crushed the opposition
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpV5wOgs-aI
Now its all upto Ford, price the 2.2 variants in Fortuner level and there you go, even if people buy it or not, Fords job is done in style.

 

[acechip]

Re: New Ford Endeavour Launching in Jan 2016 in India

here is a video of a big SUV comparo, and guess what the new Endeavor crushed the opposition
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpV5wOgs-aI
Now its all upto Ford, price the 2.2 variants in Fortuner level and there you go, even if people buy it or not, Fords job is done in style.

If I had 25 lac+ to spare and such a car to buy, the last thing I would trust is such paid reviews. No matter which magazine. These are only worth for checking out the metal in motion and to learn some key features. The end-opinion is almost always biased depending on the brand, and the flavour of the month. The "reviewers" will find silly aspects to nitpick and that kinda really kills the credibility.

 

[1989rs500]

Re: New Ford Endeavour Launching in Jan 2016 in India

If I had 25 lac+ to spare and such a car to buy, the last thing I would trust is such paid reviews. No matter which magazine. These are only worth for checking out the metal in motion and to learn some key features. The end-opinion is almost always biased depending on the brand, and the flavour of the month. The "reviewers" will find silly aspects to nitpick and that kinda really kills the credibility.

No offense here buddy but the new Endeavor is an extremely good product, not just overdrive, almost all all magazines which drove it had more praises to say than a few complaints like slow reacting gearbox which is again solved partially by triptronic mode and with Manual as an option, not just Indian ones but even the magazines from Australia,Thailand,Philippines too have made new Endy among the best SUV out there in market,
I havent been in Trailblazer the current or the old one but have been in Cruze,Sail,Beat and Chevrolet is really bad at least in India, just above us in China they r the best but some how in India all their products are just passable, I was surprised with Cruze the 150 PS variant when I pressed the accelerator but then came the bad roads, gone, it was too softly sprung and bounced about and had extreme lack of body control, the steering has no feel, feels like a Hyundais other cousin to me, back seat was cramped, interior plastics were average at best and even though Power was so huge it didnt deliver the final punch that a car in that segment needs to fall and buy it, same case is for Sail and Beat, and new Trailblazer seriously , NO AWD, no GMs MyLink,a 6 speed AT while most other GMs outside India has moved to 8 speed ATs,no IRS, it dosent seem to have any specialty to make it sell over well even a Fortuner
GM had more than enough time and a huge advantage just north of us and they still are neglecting us even more, Ford was frankly crap till 2010, sure Fiestas were good,but still too high on maintenance,too unreliable,thirsty petrols,all haunted them, but with the Figo in 2010 they changed to a whole new level, even globally Fords sells just 65-70% of cars of what GM sells but Fords have better built,ride,handling,comforts,features,... per car making them more car per car,
The Endeavor is a big SUV and its got all things right, sure I too havent driven it but even the specs seems soo impressive that we need only pricing to determine its level of success

 

[acechip]

Re: New Ford Endeavour Launching in Jan 2016 in India

No offense here buddy but the new Endeavor is an extremely good product, not just overdrive, almost all all magazines which drove it had more praises to say than a few complaints like slow reacting gearbox which is again solved partially by triptronic mode and with Manual as an option, not just Indian ones but even the magazines from Australia,Thailand,Philippines too have made new Endy among the best SUV out there in market,
I havent been in Trailblazer the current or the old one but have been in Cruze,Sail,Beat and Chevrolet is really bad at least in India, just above us in China they r the best but some how in India all their products are just passable, I was surprised with Cruze the 150 PS variant when I pressed the accelerator but then came the bad roads, gone, it was too softly sprung and bounced about and had extreme lack of body control, the steering has no feel, feels like a Hyundais other cousin to me, back seat was cramped, interior plastics were average at best and even though Power was so huge it didnt deliver the final punch that a car in that segment needs to fall and buy it, same case is for Sail and Beat, and new Trailblazer seriously , NO AWD, no GMs MyLink,a 6 speed AT while most other GMs outside India has moved to 8 speed ATs,no IRS, it dosent seem to have any specialty to make it sell over well even a Fortuner
GM had more than enough time and a huge advantage just north of us and they still are neglecting us even more, Ford was frankly crap till 2010, sure Fiestas were good,but still too high on maintenance,too unreliable,thirsty petrols,all haunted them, but with the Figo in 2010 they changed to a whole new level, even globally Fords sells just 65-70% of cars of what GM sells but Fords have better built,ride,handling,comforts,features,... per car making them more car per car,
The Endeavor is a big SUV and its got all things right, sure I too havent driven it but even the specs seems soo impressive that we need only pricing to determine its level of success

Hey, I am not saying that Endy is a bad SUV over Trailblazer, indeed it may be superior in most aspects. Just dont trust the magazine reviews blindly, thats all!

 

[1989rs500]

Re: New Ford Endeavour Launching in Jan 2016 in India

Hey, I am not saying that Endy is a bad SUV over Trailblazer, indeed it may be superior in most aspects. Just dont trust the magazine reviews blindly, thats all!

For sure, one always has the option for test drives and independent opinions, I for one likes all views and reviews, I didnt expect Ford to make a manual Endeavor, manual 4x4 and AT and 2 engine choices, that was a clear surprise for me since India is the only country that gets this vast variety of options of Endeavor which proves Ford is committed to India, they could have easily done with just 2 or maximum 3 variants for Endeavor but instead took the pain of making 6 variants of Endeavor to make it accessible for a wide variety of audience, same for Aspire and Figo as well,
They nailed 4 qualities safety,quality,green, smart as well which is essential for any car maker, so I have to give a win to Ford and Endeavor this time