Tata Storme vs Mahindra XUV5OO - Which One To Choose?

[The Adventurer]

Folks
This is my first post on this site.
I booked a w8 xuv yesterday. I did so after enquiring with friends who use it and test driving it on a bad road and highway.
But today...i came across a relative of mine who sold his xuv after 2 months of purchase because of a bumpy ride and went for innova. according to him, theres no comparison between the ride in a safar or innova.
Im kinda confused right now cos we do a lot of long trips. on closer observation...i realized that all those folks who recommended xuv were earlier using boleros and scorpios.
I wanted your feedback on how bumpy the xuv actually is.

 

[Superbad]

Folks
This is my first post on this site.
I booked a w8 xuv yesterday. I did so after enquiring with friends who use it and test driving it on a bad road and highway.
But today...i came across a relative of mine who sold his xuv after 2 months of purchase because of a bumpy ride and went for innova. according to him, theres no comparison between the ride in a safar or innova.
Im kinda confused right now cos we do a lot of long trips. on closer observation...i realized that all those folks who recommended xuv were earlier using boleros and scorpios.
I wanted your feedback on how bumpy the xuv actually is.

all depends on personal preference.

some like stiff suspension, to tackle bad roads at good speeds, some like softer setup.

you should try a TD yourself on the those bad stretches of roads, to make out if the ride quality is a deal breaker.

 

[The Adventurer]

A really bumpy ride is indeed a deal breaker for me. But the mahindra is located on a smooth 6 lane highway with some really awful pocket roads.
The question is when it comes to normal roads. Is the xuv less comfortable as against innova?
I know that xuv has minimal body roll. but im unable to effectively check out how bouncy it is. some posts here mention xuv being bouncy.
I wouldve picked the storme if they were doing better numbers. Im moving from a honda city. i dont want my family to be suddenly disturbed with this bounce.
We enjoy drives and often venture on 1000kms plus journeys. we also have a ladakh lined up next year.
While a corolla altis could also do it. An suv could do it better.
The heart lies with xuv but the head seems unconvinced.

 

[Raja]

The dwindling sales figures of the XUV can be because of the following factors:

1) Saturation of the market: Lets remember that this segment of the market (14-17 Lacs) was empty before the Aria entered it. It did not do well. Cruze, Altis and Civic were sedans in this price range, which did not do exceptionally well either. XUV entered with a STORME (!!!), sold consistently well for 1.5 years and is now on a downfall... simply because there are not enough buyers now.

Anyone who is aware of the product life cycle will understand -
View attachment 97611

Why has the " product cycle rule " not affected the Innova till now ? It is by no means a cheap car , and price wise it does come close to xuv and storme .

Beside the fact remains that Innova still sells inspite of no features , no radical changes in its looks since its launch .

It sells only on one factor " reliability " .

And storme and xuv both can't be termed as super reliable cars . And at the end of the day reliability does matter .

Xuv sold more before because it appealed the inate nature of Indian mentality "more for less ".


And the storme sells because of the loyal fan base it has since the safari times .

XUV is now in the 'decline' stage.

2) Niggles and recalls: India is a market where word by mouth publicity plays a strong role in the car buying decision. Negative publicity caused by niggles and recalls may have played a huge role.

3) The Ecosport effect: I know they are in different segments but somewhere I believe people must have waited for the desirable Ecosport to launch and then decide. Some may even have opted for the ES over the XUV, given the lower pricing of the ES.

Rightly said plus thanx to our govt and its policy too .

Knowing M&M, this is the right time to launch the W4. Strip off the car from all electronics. Remove the alloys as well. Just give the Automatic A/C with ABS and 2 Airbags (the ES has them) and price it about a Lac lesser than the W6... and they have a winner.

This model can make the Storme really uncomfortable .

However, I doubt the XUV will sell in 4k units again. Simply because there are not enough buyers to purchase a 16 Lac vehicle in 4k units month after month

.
There are buyers , its just that options are opening up now . My best friend recently bought a duster for 13 lakhs the rxl model , I suggested him storme and xuv . He plainly refused saying he dosent trust mahindra or tata . If duster was not there he would have considered xuv and storme , but not now .

If ever ford brings the "kuga " or other car makers bring something in that segment , it won't be a surprise that xuv and storme selling only in 200-300 numbers .

A 16 lakhs paying consumer needs premiuim car with reliability and visits to the a.s.s only when required as per the service schedule .

What premiuimness is there in a car which you bought for 16 lakhs and has its rear door rattling , steering making noises , head lights conking off , infotainment system needing countless upgrades , brakes making noises ( notorious nigggles found in both storme and xuv ) .

Innova is not a cheap car atall it is as expensive as the storme and xuv , has a relatively puny engine ,is devoid of features yet sells and has been consistent in its sales figures which somewhat points to a fact that end of the day majority of people care less for features and jazzy stuff but care more for reliability .

@ the adventurer

As Superbad mentioned already . Rather then getting confused and listening to others , its better you take your family on a long test drive on all kind of roads and then decide if the ride quality of xuv is satisfactory or not for you and your family .

Before the test drive stop somewhere and kindly check the tyre pressure in the xuv too ,as at times tyre pressure does affect the ride quality of any car .

The difference in ride quality in xuv vs Innova vs storme can be mostly found on bad roads only , on normal plain roads all behave perfectly fine and are equal and there is nothing bouncy in xuv .

Its just the ride quality in xuv is not great "relatively " compared to the storme and Innova on bad roads .

So test drive them all , maybe you and your family will be ok with the ride quality of xuv .

 

[raj_5004]

Folks
This is my first post on this site.
I booked a w8 xuv yesterday. I did so after enquiring with friends who use it and test driving it on a bad road and highway.
.................
I wanted your feedback on how bumpy the xuv actually is.

A really bumpy ride is indeed a deal breaker for me. But the mahindra is located on a smooth 6 lane highway with some really awful pocket roads.
...............
The heart lies with xuv but the head seems unconvinced.

I have owned both the Innova and the XUV at one point, and I can confidently say that the Innova has a better ride. But I wont really recommend you to go with the Innova as the difference between Innova's ride and the XUV's ride is marginal.

Yes, the XUV has a stiffer suspension when compared to the Innova but it is nowhere bouncy, not even close to the Scorpio. The XUV does not have the best in class ride quality, but it is decent enough and wont make you uncomfortable.

On the other hand, the XUV has a lot of other things to offer when compared to the Innova.

Why has the " product cycle rule " not affected the Innova till now ? It is by no means a cheap car , and price wise it does come close to xuv and storme .

Beside the fact remains that Innova still sells inspite of no features , no radical changes in its looks since its launch .

It sells only on one factor " reliability " .

Two factors - brand image and brand value.

The reliability factor is covered under brand image. Toyota has a brand image of being reliable.

The second factor is brand value. Many people will prefer a Toyota or a Honda over a Tata or Mahindra... I know many such people within my family and friends.

So in such cases, the decline stage will come, but it will take much longer. And anyways, it is not that the Innova has not taken a beating - from 6000-8000 units, it has dropped down to 4000-5000 units.

Another reason is - Innova is sold heavily in the taxi market. These people are consistent buyers, month after month. XUVs are Stormes are not preferred in the taxi segment.

And storme and xuv both can't be termed as super reliable cars . And at the end of the day reliability does matter .

Of course, it is one of the reason determining how soon you hit the "decline" phase. As I said, it took the Innova a much longer phase to hit this phase. Apart from brand image and brand value, even competition decides this.

Years ago, Innova only had the Scorpio and Safari as competition. Now it has the XUV, Storme, Duster and Ecosport as well. So very soon, I am sure Toyota will have to deal with dwindling sales of the Innova as well. Of course, the taxi market will make sure it does not hit rock bottom.

Xuv sold more before because it appealed the inate nature of Indian mentality "more for less ".

Also, because it was value for money. The higher taxes now takes it altogether into an upper segment.

I suggested him storme and xuv . He plainly refused saying he dosent trust mahindra or tata . If duster was not there he would have considered xuv and storme , but not now .

Yes, this is exactly what I mentioned above. People usually dont prefer 'desi' manufacturers.

 

[Tornado]

Knowing M&M, this is the right time to launch the W4. Strip off the car from all electronics. Remove the alloys as well. Just give the Automatic A/C with ABS and 2 Airbags (the ES has them) and price it about a Lac lesser than the W6... and they have a winner.

From a 18 Lacs Premium crossover to 9 Lac budget people mover... what a shame. Their reputation has gone for a toss.

With M&M beating TATA by a huge margin in terms of sales figures and TATA going in cost reduction mode, I think they need to do something astonishingly good... and the Storme is not the right way ahead.

Dear and respected raj , why this double standard?
When m & m choose to get stripped -down then it is just ' winner and timely bussiness policy ' and when TATAS do it then it is ' shame'?
It is like , if someone has got a girlfriend , it's just ' divine love ' , and if somebody else has got a girlfriend then it's nothing but ' an affair'!

 

[raj_5004]

Dear and respected raj , why this double standard?
When m & m choose to get stripped -down then it is just ' winner and timely bussiness policy ' and when TATAS do it then it is ' shame'?
It is like , if someone has got a girlfriend , it's just ' divine love ' , and if somebody else has got a girlfriend then it's nothing but ' an affair'!

Dear Tornado,

I too respect your thoughts. My explanation goes as follows-

The W4 variant of the XUV is just a lower variant with about a 1.5 to 2 Lacs price difference from the W8. In case of Tata, the Aria was launched as a premium flagship at an optimistic 18 Lacs. When sales started hovering in double digits, they launched the LX model at 9 Lacs, basically targeted at the taxi segment.

There were two reasons I said it was a shame, if you notice -
1) It was a massive price cut - it was kind a big blow to their pricing strategy. On one hand they had launched the car at 18 Lacs and then dropped it straight down to 9 Lacs.
2) Their target segment - changed from a premium customer to a taxi buyer. That is the reason I have mentioned reputation.

With respect to the W4, it is neither such a heavy price cut nor is it targeted at the taxi segment. Infact, because of the continuous increase in the taxes on SUVs by the Government, the W4 would I think launch at the price at which the W6 was originally launched 2 years back!

So, those are two difference scenarios. If you disagree... well, lets agree to disagree!

P.S. 1: I am single, so I cant comment about the girlfriend part!

P.S. 2: If you ask me, my personal opinion would still be to not launch the W4 (even though I know that it would be a good move for M&M as far as generating revenue is concerned.) I would still prefer a W9 (with sunroof) or a W10 (with Automatic) over the W4...

P.S. 3: If you think I am biased towards M&M (and hence the double standards) because I own the XUV, maybe I am... You guys are a better judge, so I wont debate on that.

 

[Tornado]

Dear Tornado,
The W4 variant of the XUV is just a lower variant with about a 1.5 to 2 Lacs price difference from the W8

What ! , AWD , ESP , much desired and adored infotainment system , ACC , brakes , clutch , GC , 6 airbags , rain sensing wipers , height adjustable drivers seat ( source -ACI, Cardekho) et al @ 1.5 to 2 lacs ?

I would prefer to wait till it reaches the showroom and do reserch before commenting further .

that it would be a good move for M&M as far as generating revenue is concerned.) t.

Tax policies a and present world's automobile bussiness scenario is applicable to all automakers .

Revenue generation is automakers own concern , we auto enthusiasts need not bother too much about it as just a year back they were in position to buy the Austin Martin .So there won't be much distress just due to present tax policies and world automobile bussiness scenario.

 

[raj_5004]

What ! , AWD , ESP , much desired and adored infotainment system , ACC , brakes , clutch , GC , 6 airbags , rain sensing wipers , height adjustable drivers seat ( source -ACI, Cardekho) et al @ 1.5 to 2 lacs ?

I wont really understand what you mean here...

Brakes, clutch, GC??? Yes, the W4 will have all of them. You dint factor in the engine, body, chassis and tyres... Pun intended.

W8 does not have AWD, W8 with AWD does. We are comparing with W8 here. So, I assumed that the rest of electronics and 4 additional airbags would cost no more than 2 Lacs.

I would prefer to wait till it reaches the showroom and do reserch before commenting further .

Bingo. Well, even if its 3 Lacs as you wish to assume, its okay... its not an almost 50% price cut like in the Aria's case. I hope you got the drift.

Revenue generation is automakers own concern , we auto enthusiasts need not bother too much

Ahem, that's the reason I mentioned I would prefer a W9 or a W10 over a W4!

 

[Tornado]

Brakes, clutch, GC??? Yes, the W4 will have all of them. ]

according to cardekho , there are going to be changes in clutch , brakes and GC also for the w4, and I don't think m&m would bring better(than W8)brakes , clutch , GC for w4 only.

W8 does not have AWD, W8 with AWD does. We are comparing with W8 here. So, I assumed that the rest of electronics and 4 additional airbags would cost no more than 2 Lacs.

oh! My bad , sorry, I written it wrong way , what I wanted to say was that Aria @18 lacs was top end with 4 x4.so topend prices of both brands should be taken in to consideration while talking about prices of respective stripped down versions while comparing them.
Anyways , let's not bring the ARIA too much in this thread.


Rather than assuming the price difference between top end xuv and low end W 4 ,let's wait till it reaches showroom.

 

[maranprashanth]

@Raja: I have said "it could be" and not "it is"

Lower specification is term of all deparment and it could be in all aspects.

Lower Cubic capacity?
Lower Power?
Single mass fly wheel?
5Speed Gear Box?
Non-ABS variant?
Rear Drum brake?
Absence of Audi Device?
Absence of Steering control?
Absence of Leather seats?
Art leather seats are also possible
Absence of arm rest in second row?

Even VGT can be as normal Turbo?

Except the decision board of M&M no one knows what exactly and I did not state as confirmed DiCR engine or 2.2 120 PS what I say is it could be so.M&M has told reporter that lower specification so it could be mechanical also

 

[Raja]

@Raja: I have said "it could be" and not "it is"

Lower specification is term of all deparment and it could be in all aspects.

Lower Cubic capacity?
Lower Power?
Single mass fly wheel?
5Speed Gear Box?
Non-ABS variant?
Rear Drum brake?
Absence of Audi Device?
Absence of Steering control?
Absence of Leather seats?
Art leather seats are also possible
Absence of arm rest in second row?

Even VGT can be as normal Turbo?

Except the decision board of M&M no one knows what exactly and I did not state as confirmed DiCR engine or 2.2 120 PS what I say is it could be so.M&M has told reporter that lower specification so it could be mechanical also

Boss read your post again and show me were have you mentioned " it could be " ,and,then read autocar link i have provided . And kindly provide us the link about what Mahindra has told the reporter about specs and specially about performance and then we will talk ok ?

 

[Superbad]

^^ the M2di is not capable of higher power outputs. the max it could was around 97ps on a bolero storm.

they wont add a not so premium engine on a premium vehicle, when even an Lx variant of a scorpio comes with an mhawk engine, the w4 will be stripped of its electricals. (ABS might still be in it)

also it has been mentioned the mechanicals wont change, so debating a non possibility is futile exercise.

lastly, the XUV was a flavour when it was launched @ 10.8 lacs.

now there are options available at much better price points, hence it wont be an attraction with deregulation of diesel, higher current pricing for the xuv.
so 4k MOM wont be regular affair for XUV, even the duster and innova wont be able to clock those numbers on regular basis.

with the maruti XA-alpha in the pipeline, the segment is set to dwindle.

 

[Gurrala74]

I wonder when I read that product life cycle example from Raj, as a product cannot get saturated so fast until unless buyers feel that the product is no more a VFM and initial sales was a hype. For this product life cycle there are number of examples like Innova, Swift, Bolero, Scorpio they are doing very fairly even today.

There must be other strong reasons for the less sales of XUV at present something like ES entry into the market may be one.

On the other hand Storme is making a slow but steady growth and numbers and it is not true that only safari lovers buying it as I know so many people who never owned a TATA vehicle in their life are excited buying Storme and extremely happy with what it offers

 

[navnit013]

@ Raj,

After reading the Autocars report on lower ground clearance XUV.....I think Mahindra is playing a "if it looks good then why not?" game.

The following is an extract from Autocar.

So just what did Mahindra have to do to lower the XUV and meet the new clearance regulation? Absolutely nothing.

In a move that highlights how flawed the government regulation really is, all the company had to do was use the Indian system of measuring ground clearance – which simply measures from the lowest point on the car to the ground. Mahindra had previously used the European ‘Arc’ method of measurement, which typically gives the higher value, which in turn looks good on the spec sheet of a tough SUV.

By simply using the Indian system of measurement, the XUV’s clearance was automatically re-rated to 170mm, but then Mahindra went a step further and added a stone guard to the underbody, purportedly to protect the engine. This lowered the car’s lowest point by a further 10mm, safely clear of the cut-off.

Mahindra is reportedly working on dodging this additional excise duty with the Scorpio and the Bolero as well, but whether this shrewd method will work on these conventional SUVs remains to be seen. Perhaps the other restrictions on length and engine size would be easier to get around. However what is clear, just as it was when the sub-four-metre small car excise benefit was announced, is that for every loosely defined (and in this case, absurd) government regulation, innovative carmakers will find a way around.

However, according to the industry, the government is soon going to get wise and plug this loophole too.

If the Govt can use European emission norms are a guideline for Indian Norms, then why cant they do the same with Crash safety and other parameters too.