Tata Manza QJD 80,000 Kms Ownership Review (Finally, Clutch Issue Resolved)

[Releesh]

Re: Tata Manza QJD 70,000 Kms Ownership Review (Tata Struggles To Solve Clutch Issue)

Tornado @

This car is only run 80 K Km, but within this Km you had to replace many parts in your car. Even an indica/indigo cs doesnt require this much parts replacement within this KM. I feel maintenance expense/ parts replacement is very high for a car in this budget and that is due to low quality parts used in the car by the company. Are you keeping any records of total expenses in this car? What is the future plan about this car? Will you suggest Manza to anybody now?

 

[Maneet92]

Re: Tata Manza QJD 70,000 Kms Ownership Review (Tata Struggles To Solve Clutch Issue)

i am a proud owner of 2005 Indigo LS Tdi, 90000kms on odo. I'm happy with its performance, engine and comfort levels.

I am getting my car serviced from neighborhood garage for past 2 years. Apart from regular service, no major issues faced so far.

My timing belt replacement is due. Company recommends 1lakh kms but my mechanic says, i should get it changed as soon as possible.
AVG- 15-16kmpl in Delhi traffic conditions with A.C On.

 

[Tornado]

Re: Tata Manza QJD 70,000 Kms Ownership Review (Tata Struggles To Solve Clutch Issue)

Details of Right sided front suspension work carried out approx. 1 month back are as follows.

Suspension Bush kit- Rs 649
Assy drive shaft - Rs 4532

This drive shaft had some play in its attachments with other parts. And this was leading to 'Gad Gad' noise while taking extreme left turn.

Two kit sliding pins - Rs 596
Two Lower ball joints- Rs 683
Right stabiliser link Assy - Rs 377
Left stabiliserlink Assy - Rs 377
Service kit boot tj - Rs 618
Polish paper - Rs 13
WUETH rust offs - Rs 40
Plastic & rubber care - Rs 27
Nut - Rs 10
Front suspension dismantle & assemble (labour)- Rs 1232
Outside machining for Bush pressing - Rs 180
Wheel alignment - Rs 385.
Wheel alignment is compulsory whenever suspension work is carried out.
Service tax - Rs 220

Total Rs 11,000

Also one head light bulb was fused off . SA replaced it without informing me. Though only one bulb required to be replaced you need to purchase a kit of two @.496.
Also he didn't checked my glove box where there were two spare bulbs were stored by me

This car is only run 80 K Km, but within this Km you had to replace many parts in your car.

Apart from clutch there are not many unscheduled replacements, clutch was replaced twice at my expenses & once under warranty.

Few other replacements are under warranty eg, gear wire, fan motor.

Rest of the replacements are part of wear & tear eg brake liners.
Timing chain replacement is recommended by TATA @60 K km Sadly TATA has not mentioned about it in the owners manual Many other automakers recommend it @60 kkm to 80 kkm.

Electronic (fuel senso), plastic water reservoir might be of low quality.

Suspension work arised due to change in driving style & road conditions as mentioned bellow.

Even an indica/indigo cs doesnt require this much parts replacement within this KM.

Agreed, my previous car was Indigo LS diesel, and till 1 lakh km running there was no other expenses barring routine servicing and no unscheduled visits to service station. One of the reason of this pleasant experience was that I never visited TASS, not even for initial free services. I use to get it serviced from local guy. But later on same local guy messed up with the engine cooling mechanism, steering pump leading to heavy expenses @125000 km.

Are you keeping any records of total expenses in this car?

Yes, on this thread itself. Expenses that really hurt my pocket were clutch replacement twice (approx Rs 20 k total) & timing chain +pretentioner replacement (approx Rs 10 k total ) I bought the car OTR @6, 10, 000 +30, 000 for unscheduled replacements.

What is the future plan about this car?

Feeling like selling it before it completes 1 L km.

Will you suggest Manza to anybody now?

Yes only if buyer fulfills following criteria
1)Highway running should be more and city running should be minimal.
2) Driving style should be sedate
(In my case, after the car completed 30 k km, I had to do lot of city running, this took heavy toll on clutch. At the time of buying the car I had done lot of internet research on Manza, not a single issue about clutch was reported till I faced it. Also nature of work changed in such a way that I had to drive the sedan like a SUV, this coupled with gradual worsening of road conditions which lead to some suspension work)

3) space & rear comfort should be top on his agenda as it was on my agenda at the time of purchase.

4) Good quality TASS should be available around before making decisions to buy the car.

5) Most importantly, budget. In my case, only better cars available in those days were Verna Linea.
Verna was costlier by Rs 3 L than Manza and waiting period was 8 months
Linea GC was very low in those days.
These factors were against my agenda.
Vento, Rapid were not launched then, but still budget was constraint.
Dezire sedan was discontinued and waiting period for new Dzire was 8 months.
Verito, Etios, though in same budget, had lower torque as compared Manza.
Etios GC & interiors were very poor in those days
6) Last but not least. Buyer should posses some knowledge about functioning of various parts of cars and ASS.

My timing belt replacement is due. Company recommends 1lakh kms but my mechanic says, i should get it changed as soon as possible.

It is not necessary that it should be replaced as per company recommendations. If there is any abnormal noise due to it, you must change it earlier as once it breaks down, expenses are heavy.

 

[Tornado]

Re: Tata Manza QJD 70,000 Kms Ownership Review (Tata Struggles To Solve Clutch Issue)

Car is now 82 k km run. I dropped it at Phoenix TASS pune for servicing.
Apart from scheduled replacements,SA told be front disk brake pads needs to be replaced as they are worn out.

@all, what is average lifespan of the these pads?

 

[AppU]

Re: Tata Manza QJD 70,000 Kms Ownership Review (Tata Struggles To Solve Clutch Issue)

Car is now 82 k km run. I dropped it at Phoenix TASS pune for servicing.
Apart from scheduled replacements,SA told be front disk brake pads needs to be replaced as they are worn out.

@all, what is average lifespan of the these pads?

Brakepads life is depends on the way we use.

the brakepad wear more for the car which are mostly driven in city when compare to highway. Even For highway also the wear will be more because of highspeed. So it depends.

Even I have changed my Vista's brakepads during last service at 63,000Kms.

 

[Tornado]

Re: Tata Manza QJD 70,000 Kms Ownership Review (Tata Struggles To Solve Clutch Issue)

I got the car back after 80 k km servicing.

Following complaints were told by me.
1) LHS front PW switch was not working properly (it was rolling down the window but was not rolling up).
2)Fuel tank lid was showing some evidence of leakage.
3)Clutch was little bit hard.
4) AC Filter check.
5)usual 80 k km servicing

Following are the details of the work done

Prices of the parts used & replaced.-
1)Synthetic engine oil Rs 408 /lit (3.2 lit) - Rs 1308

2)Oil filter - Rs 342

3)Fuel filter (W/O water level sen) - Rs 1173
{Last time @60 kkm servicing when fuel filter was replaced, the specification mentioned on bill was Fuel filter assy (M/S UFI) SDE 90 PS }, need some clarification on difference between two from fellow TAI gers.

4)Air Filter- 226

5)Plug oil sump - Rs 70

6)Brake oil DOT 4 CAS (250 ml) - Rs 88

7)Kit brake pad assy- Rs 1776 (Last time these were replaced ed
@40000 km at same cost)

8)Power window switch- Rs 648

9)Bardhil AC Cleaner - Rs 400

10)Polish paper - Rs 11

Labour charges -
1)For servicing - Rs 1282
2)For power window switch replacement-Rs 77 (last time I had DIY this for other window)
3)For brake pads replacement - Rs 385

Taxes-
VAT - Rs756
Service tax - Rs 210

TOTAL - Rs8762.

SA said that they have removed some air from the clutch but surprisingly nothing is mentioned about its labor charges, though the clutch is is bit soft now.

WA was done at the time of drive shaft assy of the suspension system replacement @78k km. I asked the SA, if it is necessary to do it now @82 kkm? He said, no. But on bill he has mentioned that it is refused by me!


Few issues are still pending.
1)Today I noticed that there is some bend at the edge of the left front rim. Also it was my observation since last 1 month that the air pressure from front two tires was getting decreased to 28 as compared to desired 32.
SA said I need to check the rim at tyre shop & might need to purchase new rims or put in tubes.

2)The after market reverse & central locking alarm malfunction needs to be checked with the installer.

3)Few days back, a biker came in from behind and his front wheel collided with the rear bumper, led to a small 5 ×1 cm crack on it.
Expected cost - Rs 4500 for new bumper & Rs 3000 for painting it body colored.
Also, left front & rear doors have got 20 cm long horizontal scratches over them due to another biker, luckily, no dent. These doors also need full paint job. Cost Rs 3500 each. All this crack & scratches are not making the looks of car dirty still need to pay attention to them.
So total goes to Rs 14500. I have got zero dep insurance which will expire at december end. So I will check with insurance guy well in advance.

 

[narendragb]

Re: Tata Manza QJD 70,000 Kms Ownership Review (Tata Struggles To Solve Clutch Issue)

I got the car back after 80 k km servicing.

Following complaints were told by me.
1) LHS front PW switch was not working properly (it was rolling down the window but was not rolling up).
2)Fuel tank lid was showing some evidence of leakage.
3)Clutch was little bit hard.
4) AC Filter check.
5)usual 80 k km servicing

Following are the details of the work done

Prices of the parts used & replaced.-
1)Synthetic engine oil Rs 408 /lit (3.2 lit) - Rs 1308

2)Oil filter - Rs 342

3)Fuel filter (W/O water level sen) - Rs 1173
{Last time @60 kkm servicing when fuel filter was replaced, the specification mentioned on bill was Fuel filter assy (M/S UFI) SDE 90 PS }, need some clarification on difference between two from fellow TAI gers.

4)Air Filter- 226

5)Plug oil sump - Rs 70

6)Brake oil DOT 4 CAS (250 ml) - Rs 88

7)Kit brake pad assy- Rs 1776 (Last time these were replaced ed
@40000 km at same cost)

8)Power window switch- Rs 648

9)Bardhil AC Cleaner - Rs 400

10)Polish paper - Rs 11

.

For oil change/coolant change, always ask them to do in front of you.
Last time when I serviced my car, while taking car, I saw coolant id below half level.
They also only top u/ or fill oil without doing clean process.

 

[Tornado]

Re: Tata Manza QJD 80,000 Kms Ownership Review (Tata Struggles To Solve Clutch Issue)

Yes, Narendra, possibility of such sabotage can't be ruled out. But for me it is not possible for me to keep watch on each & everything.

 

[Tornado]

Re: Tata Manza QJD 80,000 Kms Ownership Review (Tata Struggles To Solve Clutch Issue)

Of late, my car FE dropped down to 13 kmpl with 100 %AC. Also, daily I was using AC on external air mode(to get rid off unpleasant smell of some spilled food items eg fish) for 1to 2 hrs daily with engine idling while waiting for my son to finish his sport training.
Done some internet research and found that approximately 600 ml diesel is required for one hr idling without AC, cosumption increases by 20 % if AC is on during this one hour. This further increases up to 40 %if AC is ON on external air mode (continuous in flow of xternal air which is hotter than cooled internal air, also AC compressor needs to work harder during idling than at speeds as air in the engine bay remains hot due to stagnation of stationary air in the bay as compared to moving car ). This comes to more than 1 liter fuel consumption per hour of idling.

Following measures were taken by me recently to improve FE.
1)Three micro punctures found in tyres, they were responsible for gradual loss of air pressure in tyres (approx 2 psi per day)

2)There was alignment issue(Alignment was done by TASS as a compulsory measure after suspension 's drive shaft & Bush replacement. , left front wheel was little bit misaligned leading to extra wear & tear of the inner side of the front tyres.

3) Stopped using AC completely due to pleasant winter.

Drove my Manza without AC for a full tank as outside temperature in Pune & outskirts is 18 to 22 °c during daytime. To my surprise, I got FE of 20 kmpl on 60 %not so good state highway & 40 %city traffic.

4) Since few months I was driving the car at speeds 90 to 100 km while reaching the workplace in hurry leading to frequent braking & down shifting to avoid accidents . Now, I have stated leaving my home 15 minutes earlier.

 

[Tornado]

Re: Tata Manza QJD 80,000 Kms Ownership Review (Clutch Issue Resolved) )

Guys, Finally Clutch Issue Is Resolved.

Two days back, In the morning I was cleaning my car's foot well with vacuum cleaner. Suddenly something hit on the nozzle of the vacuum cleaner underneath the clutch peddle leading to a crack on the nozzle . So I leaned completely so as to see the base of the pedals(it was really difficult to bend down there with eyes towards base of the pedals) . And to my surprise I found a bent 1 inch screw entraped in the hollow metal square (on which the pedal is mounted) It was pointing towards the mat bellow and front of the pedal. Every time the clutch is pressed fully it was touching the mat bellow and since it was heating the mat since such a long time that it had caused a perforation in the mat. (OE wool type mat provided by TATA and not the rubber one which I had purchased as foot mat)
It was entrapped badly beneath the clutch pedal & it was preventing full clutch application. It took half an hr to remove it.
And voila, clutch is smooth now.

What surprised me is that I replaced pedals twice, how come the man could not notice it? Probably, it might be because pedals were replaced at night time.

And ideally, these TASS people should check if there is any obstacle in the way of pedal, but morons never did so.

 

[Tornado]

FE on Highway without AC :22 KMPL@80 kmph most of the time.
FE on Highway with heater on approx 25 °c, (outside temperature 14 to 15 °c) :21 kmpl @speeds 90 to 100 kmph most of the time.
Both times, it was tank full to near empty to Tankful method.

 

[Tornado]

My zero dep insurance tenure was about to end.
There was a cut on the lower most part of the front bumper, probably got it due to some sharp piece of a tile on the foot path near the parking slot on the road during parking manuvour . Also there were scratches on the color of the left front & rear doors.
I got the doors painted & the whole front bumper replaced. Front bumper includes body colored part, housing for fog lamps, front grills together. Total expected expenditure was about 15000
INR. Due to zero dep insurance claim, I only lost the NCB & I had to pay Rs 1100 as processing fees & car wash & vacuum cleaning, dash board polishing.

Car is running fine & feels new as I have already replaced the brake liners, pads, suspension bush, timing chain with its pretentioner.Also 80,000 km major servicing(includes fuel filter replacement) has been carried out recently. I got the clutch checked by supervisor(Ashish) of Phoenix TASS katraj, he said it's fine.

Now a days , I need to visit my farmhouse frequently, also my parents always send sugarcane, wheat bags, ground nut oil from the farm. Since Manza boot seems inadequate for all these things along with our luggage. My father feels that we need to purchase a SUV for same purpose so that rear seats can be folded to convert the rear in to cargo. He also felt it is cumbersome to carry the farm products from the farm to farm house manually (short of labour) as sedan can't be taken to farms directly. He told me to trade off the manza in lieu of the SUV, like Terrano or Ecosport, Avventura etc etc.
However, I asked him to sell his Wagon R instead of Manza. If at all Manza was to be sold, correct time would have been before all the replacements (liners, pads, Bush, timing chain) & add ons (Urathane cushions, ICE upgrade) were carried out as almost 75,0000 Rs have been spent on the same since last one year.
Also, being a BS 3 car, I can always refuel the car at Highway bunks , diesel there costs almost Rs 3 lesser per litre than the BS 4 diesel we get in Pune.

If we calculate the money saved on fuel, its as follows.
Total Mileage : 86000 km.
FE 18 to 20 kmpl most of the time. So on average we can say it was 19 kmpl.

Total fuel required : 86000 /19 =4526 lits.
So total amount saved due to cheaper BS 3 diesel is :
4526 ×3 =Rs 13, 578.

My better half also opposed idea of selling Manza. As she is the person who sits on rear seat most of the time along with our daughter sleeping on her lap. My wife said she had never came across such a comfortable seat err... Sofa. She said if at all Manza is replaced, it is better to swap the manza rear seat with rear seat of new car
Once we left Goa at 11:30 pm and reached Pune at 7 :00 am. I drove whole night as I had very good sleep at prior noon. I always feel comfortable driving during night. And I luckily got a company of a Pune police Gypsy, so I cancelled the night halt planned before the Ghat section. My wife immediately joined her work at 9AM without any sign of the tiredness.
My mother also wants me to buy a UV or SUV like Innova Mobilio as she feels sad whenever I off load the farm products either because of fear of car getting soiled or manza or for making some space for usual luggage.

 

[Tornado]

Finally brain prevaied over heart.
My father said that,
It was Manza which I had to give. After the clutch issue @63k km , Tatas stopped taking post servicing feedback from me (no calls from them ) . Tass should have informed me about the Tatas circular which recommended timing chain replacement to be done at 60kkm at the time of 60k km service of my car .Sadly neighther Tatas nor TASS bothered about it and they told me about it @70kkm servicing.

Also the hard feeling clutch was a mediocre problem which they didn't diagnosed correctly. Hence possibility of getting better ASS at the time when (post 90k km) car needs it most seemed dim.,
Hence, it is better to sell the car when it is running in good condition.

I too thought that what Tatas calls a horizonnext might turn out to be a mirage next and better to buy a new car.

Car is sold now.

 

[Tornado]

Received a sms from TASS yesterday

 

[autosafari]

Oh! I was not aware that you sold the car.
Which SUV you have selected finally?

You received that SMS because the new owner may not have changed the mobile number in TASS records.