My New Honda City in White - The Albus


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.............a heavy metallic sound inside the dickey area as though something freely hitting while the car running on bad roads......the sound originated from the clamp my electrician used to fix up the aftermarket dual horns as one of the horn was hitting the car body while running on a bad road.....OMG, the horns are there inside the front grill but I felt the sound from the rear side!!!

Have you come across any such experience?
A strange story of 'refered noise' and human audio sensory presception. Nice one, nevertheless. (Sorry about those alloys).

Yes, I have a similar funny story but the sound came from the right direction (c.1982).

I use to go on regular holidays to the US and always rented a car for my use. On one particular visit, a close friend, who had bought a restored vintage 1953 Chevy Bel-Air a couple of months ago, insisted that I make use of it during my stay. Since its restoration, it had not been put to use much, he said, in fact, I would be helping him break-in the restored engine and all other things. I was impressed with my very first test drive on this massive vehicle (about 16 feet long and 6 feet wide). It ran buttery-smooth, a bit heavy to handle, and it floated, pitched and yawed like a boat (like most old American cars do), but it was very enjoyable if you drove it in a sedate manner at around 60 to 70 mph. The 2nd gear was a bit sticky and popped out at times (out 3 forward manual gears), you just need a bit a brute strength to slot it in. Or, you could go straight to 3rd revving the engine a bit. Yes, I could enjoy long rides in this one, I told myself.

On that morning that I set off into the Appalachian Mountains with this blue/white monster, my friend pointed out to a couple of things. One, "SR, the wipers sometimes get stuck. To get it going, all you need to do is get your hands under the dash and yank on one of those steel cables." This car had two wipers and both were driven by a single reciprocating motor that activated the wipers via cables and pulleys! When I tested it, it worked fine. OK, all the same, got that.

"Two," he continued, "the petrol gauge does not work. On a full tank, you should get around 230 to 240 miles and you need to keep a tab on that."

I mentally calculated, with a carburated 4 liter in-line 6 cylinder engine, and a full tank of 15 gallons of petrol at a specified consumption rate of 17 miles to the gallon, it would give me a range of around 255 miles. Sure thing, no problem I will keep an eye on the odometer and also price of regular petrol was around 90-95 cents to the gallon (works out much cheaper than a compact size rental). My friend had also loaded a few spares, like fan belts, spark plugs, bulbs, jerry can, etc., in the boot.

For the first two days, everything went off smooth, very enjoyable drive at a leisurely rate in autumn weather. On the third day, when I hit the mountain roads (after 210 miles), something weird happened. Every time I took a hair-pin bend or hit a dirt road, there was a 'clank-clunk-clank' noise coming from somewhere behind the rear seats. A quick look inside the boot revealed nothing - old car, you know these things happen. A few miles later when I filled the tank to full, the noise totally disappeared, though I was still on those same mountain roads. I didn't give much thought to it, at least not until after another 220 miles or so. The 'clank-clink-clank' sound returned and it could be distinctly heard. This time when I stopped at the gas station the second time, I called my friend and asked him about this weird clanking noise.

He responded, "Oh SR, I forgot to mention that thing. Since the fuel gauge does not work, the previous owner had put a golf ball into the fuel tank. Since all golf balls sink, it does not make any noise when the tank is full. But when the fuel level gets low in the tank, the golf ball starts rattling around in the tank."

(Image: same colour identical car, but not the one with the golf ball in the tank)
 

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Dr MUDHAN

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Hello sir. I have a question and it may sound silly, please don't mind. Am taking delivery of ANHC VX MT (o) golden brown today...do I have to get complete front to back carpet mat or 3D mats or both….
Dear Doctor
It’s nice to meet you here. We have discussed this in this thread , Please read here :
MY ALBUS: BIRTH DAY GIFTS - 3D KAGU Foot Mats (http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/f...new-honda-city-white-albus-53.html#post414594)
WATERPROOFING OF CAR FLOOR : (http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/f...new-honda-city-white-albus-56.html#post419413)


Congratulations, Dr. Mudhan on your achievement..
As I have congratulated you I am pretty sure you won't mind me posting my views in your thread [;)]. This is my first ever post in The Automotive India, and rather than going "ga ga" on myself (which no one is interested in), let me dive straight into what I have!!! …Enjoy the i-vtec[:)].
Welcome pavi and thanks for your wishes. We are equally eager to learn from you. Keep it up.
Your observation on the ANHC (4th GEN), for that matter even for the 3rd GEN, I feel it is unbiased and genuine. Actually we pay more than an American when compared to earning capacity and their consumer protection acts which we can’t even think of it in India.


Congratulations Dr.Mudhan. Also welcome back to the thread, you seem to have taken a small break? I am so eager for new articles from you more mods, more experiments etc.
I don't understand how those damages happen to the alloys. They make me feel terrible. But I have noticed that, they seem to appear only after someone other than me drives the car....

Oh ravib, how do you do?
Yes I was wondering what to write.
You are right, you and I never see our car just as a simple object and carefully drive over path holes and we can’t expect the same from other drivers. Especially, every time when the car goes for service we can expect some new scratches and stains!
You asked me a question a year before about upgrading to alloys and I did it. Now you are asking about upsizing the tires and tempting me. Ha ha ![lol]
I don’t think so your car requires any specific checks as the way you use it and follow the scheduled service as per service manual.


A strange story of 'refered noise' and human audio sensory presception. Nice one, nevertheless. (Sorry about those alloys).
Yes, I have a similar funny story but the sound came from the right direction (c.1982). ….
Yes, Sir. It is really interesting and made me to laugh, more than that, It is really nice the way you made it interesting. Thanks.
 
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Hi All,
I am facing the below mentioned issues in my 2014 Honda City i-vtec.
1. thud thud noise from suspension while going over bad patches of road. Reported the same to service guys, but answer was "it is like that only"
2. While the AC compressor on/off transition, a comparatively higher sound is heard during compressor OFF. Reported the same, but the same answer.
@4th City owners : Please share your experience on the above mentioned issues.

I have been repeatedly asked "Are your doors closed???". Even I doubt the same at times. The panel gaps are pathetic in the 4th generation City and I feel really irritated when people ask me about the same and to make it worse my city is Black. They do have a wicked smile[evil] when I tell that I have paid 10 lakhs for this car.
 
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1. thud thud noise from suspension while going over bad patches of road. Reported the same to service guys, but answer was "it is like that only".
@Pavi - I own a Gen.3
The suspension thudding noise over potholes is a normal thing with Gen.3 too.

The alternate is an aftermarket upgrade:
a) Bilstein B14 gas struts with coil-over springs. However, this kit lowers the car by a few cm though they say "can be lowered from approx, from 0 to 30 mm". Gen.3 owners would not like this because at OEM height the car is already scrapping bottom at speed-breakers. Gen.4 could have a go at it since Gen.4 has a marginally higher ground clearance.
BILSTEIN B14

b) Tein Street Basis Suspension Kit is again shocks plus coil spring kit which is said to maintain the ride height (the performance version will lower the car)

Home - Red Rooster Performance

c) A more economic thing would be Bilstein B4 gas strut replacement. Unfortunately it is available only for Civic and CR-V (see page 16). My garage owner is looking to see if a B4 made for Jazz can be modified to fit Gen.3 City. (such OEM shocks are available for Jazz and Fit from Munroe and Koni Yellow, or so I hear but have not found it).
Bilstein HONDA JAZZ III GE B4 Dampers Fronts 07/08- Kw66-88 PN-22-213808 - Motorsport-Tools.com

d) There is a hearsay (at other Honda blogs) that just changing the coil springs to stiffer ones has managed to get rid of the thumping problem. I have not found such a product, and perhaps it needs an automotive suspension engineer to locate springs with the right compression rate that suits the City.

I have also heard from Gen.4 owners about shut-line gaps in their new City. Watch out, some have even said that the body panels are thin and dent quite easily (even leaning against them). I guess it has to do with the slimming diet to get a better kmpl number.

Hi All,
1. thud thud noise from suspension while going over bad patches of road. Reported the same to service guys, but answer was "it is like that only"
Regarding suspension thump, I have been looking at a product called "Coil Spring Assisters" made by AutoRunner in Mumbai. It is a high density rubber/elastomer molded product that is inserted into the gap between the pitch of the spring (it can only be inserted with the car on a jack and the wheels removed). It is suppose to prevent the sping coil from going into full compression (which makes the thudding noise). These are not universal, but made for individual car by model and year. At an average cost of Rs. 4,000 per set of 4, it could be an easy way out.

There are threads about this item on this blog:
http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/technical-zone/15195-coil-spring-adjuster.html

Probable disadvantages: stiffer ride, increased ride height.
Probable advantages: softer thudding, less bouncy ride (with smaller cars), keeps warranty valid (as long as you remove them before taking the car to the Dealer service).
Contacts: Auto Runner
Darryl Menezes
Mob: 9821047448
dxmenezes@yahoo.co.uk
https://www.facebook.com/AUTORUNNER/posts/225823284257292

An alternate, but similar and more expensive product: TTC Urethane Cushion Buffer - India (Indisuspension)
 
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Regarding suspension thump, I have been looking at a product called "Coil Spring Assisters" made by AutoRunner in Mumbai. It is a high density rubber/elastomer molded product that is inserted into the gap between the pitch of the spring (it can only be inserted with the car on a jack and the wheels removed). It is suppose to prevent the sping coil from going into full compression (which makes the thudding noise). These are not universal, but made for individual car by model and year. At an average cost of Rs. 4,000 per set of 4, it could be an easy way out.

There are threads about this item on this blog:
http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/technical-zone/15195-coil-spring-adjuster.html

Probable disadvantages: stiffer ride, increased ride height.
Probable advantages: softer thudding, less bouncy ride (with smaller cars), keeps warranty valid (as long as you remove them before taking the car to the Dealer service).
Contacts: Auto Runner
Darryl Menezes
Mob: 9821047448
dxmenezes@yahoo.co.uk
https://www.facebook.com/AUTORUNNER/posts/225823284257292

An alternate, but similar and more expensive product: TTC Urethane Cushion Buffer - India (Indisuspension)
Thanks Essarr for the reply.
My intention was to get to know whether these issues are normal. But I find 'lazy insulation' is the reason (ya, definitely cost cutting) for the suspension sound filtering into the cabin rather than a suspension issue. I don't understand why the so called 'reliable' manufacturers are running after 'cost cutting'. I really doubt these cost cutting would adversely affect the long term reliability of their machines. Regarding the panel panels, they are prone to denting. They bent with a little push with your fingers. Honda City was always my dream, but now honestly I am not sure if any Honda could quality in my next "car search" list.
 
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I don't understand why the so called 'reliable' manufacturers are running after 'cost cutting'.
Honda City was always my dream, but now honestly I am not sure if any Honda could quality in my next "car search" list.
@pavi
Despite all its shortcoming, the City is still one of the better cars on Indian roads, otherwise this thread (so well thought-out and started by Dr. Mudan), will not be running into 70-odd pages and still breathing and living. There are umpteen things, small and big, that can be done to improve both, performance and creature comfort without upsetting the warranty apple-cart. I suggest that you take the time to read 'The Albus' story, starting from page 1.

Everyone knows that the exact same car comes with better equipment in other markets. Reason: Indians want the best at the lowest possible price. For example, Gen.3 owners wanted better mileage, higher ground clearance, etc., and they mostly got what they asked for (and so, Honda listens to their customers). But take a look at these numbers:

Gen.3 = 1497cc petrol engine, 5-sp manual - 117 PS BHP and 146Nm torque = 15.8 kmpl overall ARAI
Gen.4 = 1497cc petrol engine, 5-sp manual - 119 PS BHP and 145Nm torque = 17.4 kmpl overall ARAI

Something's lost when something's gained. For a gain of 1.6 kmpl (which is of no consequence to Mr. Big-Foot) you get a user re-model able body....

A word of warning
: Suspension is a touchy thing. Playing with it you can end up with a "like it" or "hate it" scenario. I have had 4 different suspension systems in the same car over 15 years, I know what I am talking about. So, go for something that has been tried and tested over time, or seek the help of professionals.
 
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@pavi
Despite all its shortcoming, the City is still one of the better cars on Indian roads, otherwise this thread (so well thought-out and started by Dr. Mudan), will not be running into 70-odd pages and still breathing and living. There are umpteen things, small and big, that can be done to improve both, performance and creature comfort without upsetting the warranty apple-cart. I suggest that you take the time to read 'The Albus' story, starting from page 1.

Everyone knows that the exact same car comes with better equipment in other markets. Reason: Indians want the best at the lowest possible price. For example, Gen.3 owners wanted better mileage, higher ground clearance, etc., and they mostly got what they asked for (and so, Honda listens to their customers). But take a look at these numbers:

Gen.3 = 1497cc petrol engine, 5-sp manual - 117 PS BHP and 146Nm torque = 15.8 kmpl overall ARAI
Gen.4 = 1497cc petrol engine, 5-sp manual - 119 PS BHP and 145Nm torque = 17.4 kmpl overall ARAI

Something's lost when something's gained. For a gain of 1.6 kmpl (which is of no consequence to Mr. Big-Foot) you get a user re-model able body....

A word of warning
: Suspension is a touchy thing. Playing with it you can end up with a "like it" or "hate it" scenario. I have had 4 different suspension systems in the same car over 15 years, I know what I am talking about. So, go for something that has been tried and tested over time, or seek the help of professionals.
But..... yes, I need to start with a 'but', because I own a 4th gen Honda City. If you own the 4th gen Honda City, you will definitely understand what I am talking about. It is not the lack of features or the slight dip (negligible) in torque, that I am concerned about. There was a saying among people "Man! you don't have to think on it. It's a Honda. You can buy with eyes closed. The reliability...... bla bla bla.... '. Yes, the petrol engine is a gem, but you have to bear with the poor low end torque. Yes, it is good to look at (chrome grille was a suicidal act). Yes, it has the necessary features. Yes, it has got a nice gearbox. Yes, it is good to drive (skinny tires are ruining the fun to some extent). Yes, the fuel efficiency is decent.
All these are good, right!!! Then why am I complaining???. Simple, a premium car should not only be premium in driving comfort, engine refinement, features etc, but also should be premium in panel gap consistency, body panel thickness etc. My cousin own a Maruti Suzuki Ciaz. I found him having more 'status' because of the sole reason that Ciaz has got consistency in the panel gap department, the doors feel more heavier than City's etc.
I feel really embarrassed when people ask me about "panel gaps, doors not appear closed" etc. Thrice it happened with me, while diving a biker asked me to stop to say my door was not closed. But it was completely closed.
I am happy with all other aspects - engine, ground clearance, driving comfort, suspension - a little stiff but manageable. But I wish if Honda had taken care of the panel gap consistency seriously, that would have made the ownership experience a perfect one.
There is a saying "Late comers will get only bones". But here it is reversed "early comers got the bones, and late comers got better bones[:)] and some flesh too". Yes, Honda have taken care of the panel gaps to some extent in the newer batches. But manufactures usually forget the early buyers who bought their products only because they believe the manufacturer.
You all can find me "bashing Honda", but as I have a WagonR too, I expect much better from a City. And I live in Kerala, 119 PS is unusable and 145 NM is not sufficient as even the Kerala highways (they name them highways) feel like panchayath roads.
 
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@pavi
The intention here was to help you overcome the suspension 'thump'.

But if you want to cry over spilt milk, then dragging in bones (with or without flesh), won't really matter, because one expects matters would have been scrutinized before one parted with money. In which case, you would probably be riding a new Ciaz (for it's status and shut-lines) or stayed with the WagonR.

What you say about the Gen.4 (I know some, because a neighbout in the opposite house bought a maroon one) is something you have to put in writing to SIEL Honda, or for that matter, Honda Motor, Japan. In India, with most car manufacturers, it is a well known thing for a tendency to be caught with the pants down in the QC department. It needs to be bull-whiped from time to time.

And as for....

Yes, the petrol engine is a gem..... Yes, it has the necessary features..... Yes, it has got a nice gearbox..... Yes, it is good to drive..... Yes, the fuel efficiency is decent......
.....I couldn't agree more.
 
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@pavi
The intention here was to help you overcome the suspension 'thump'.

But if you want to cry over spilt milk, then dragging in bones (with or without flesh), won't really matter, because one expects matters would have been scrutinized before one parted with money. In which case, you would probably be riding a new Ciaz (for it's status and shut-lines) or stayed with the WagonR.

What you say about the Gen.4 (I know some, because a neighbout in the opposite house bought a maroon one) is something you have to put in writing to SIEL Honda, or for that matter, Honda Motor, Japan. In India, with most car manufacturers, it is a well known thing for a tendency to be caught with the pants down in the QC department. It needs to be bull-whiped from time to time.

And as for....



.....I couldn't agree more.
I think the messages that we are exchanging are because of the lack of understanding. I have clearly mentioned my intention "to know whether these are normal or not". I have no intention to overcome these if these are normal for 4th gen City. And I have already written to Honda, and had once rectified the panel gap issues, even the whole bonnet was completely taken out for adjusting. And regarding door closing issue, they said this is the maximum they could achieve which means that there is a design (could be wrong measurements) issue to the doors.
And as you have picked up my wordings "Yes, the petrol engine is a gem..... Yes, it has the necessary features..... Yes, it has got a nice gearbox..... Yes, it is good to drive..... Yes, the fuel efficiency is decent......", yes I still love the car. But the issues I mentioned are small but important things which affect an ownership experience.

Regarding the "spilt milk" you have mentioned, let's not forget "prevention is better than cure". And why a manufacturer like Honda "some say the premium car manufacturer" let their milk spill when they have an incredible experience of "not spilling their milk".
 
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Regarding suspension thump, I have been looking at a product called "Coil Spring Assisters" made by AutoRunner in Mumbai. It is a high density rubber/elastomer molded product that is inserted into the gap between the pitch of the spring (it can only be inserted with the car on a jack and the wheels removed). It is suppose to prevent the sping coil from going into full compression (which makes the thudding noise). These are not universal, but made for individual car by model and year. At an average cost of Rs. 4,000 per set of 4, it could be an easy way out.

There are threads about this item on this blog:
http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/technical-zone/15195-coil-spring-adjuster.html

Probable disadvantages: stiffer ride, increased ride height.
Probable advantages: softer thudding, less bouncy ride (with smaller cars), keeps warranty valid (as long as you remove them before taking the car to the Dealer service).
Contacts: Auto Runner
Darryl Menezes
Mob: 9821047448
dxmenezes@yahoo.co.uk
https://www.facebook.com/AUTORUNNER/posts/225823284257292

An alternate, but similar and more expensive product: TTC Urethane Cushion Buffer - India (Indisuspension)
I have installed "Coil Spring Adjuster" on my car at rear. I have not observed much reduction in thump sound over pot holes. But it greatly reduces bumpy ride when your car is full. It has slightly increased the ground clearance too. I am pretty much happy with this mod. In my case thump sound reduced a bit when I changed my tires from GoodYear to Michelline.
 
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I have installed "Coil Spring Adjuster" on my car at rear. I have not observed much reduction in thump sound over pot holes. But it greatly reduces bumpy ride when your car is full. It has slightly increased the ground clearance too. I am pretty much happy with this mod. In my case thump sound reduced a bit when I changed my tires from GoodYear to Michelline.
Thanks for your reply.
4th gen City comes with a stiffer suspension to address the ground clearance issue. The ground clearance is increased by 5mm but at the same time the wheelbase has been increased. So in reality the stiffer suspension is the reason why the 4th gen Honda City does not scrap its underbelly. And my car has not scraped its underbelly even once, in past one year. But the ride is a little hard while going over bad patches of road.
 
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I think the messages that we are exchanging are because of the lack of understanding.
Clearly.
My first sentence in response to one of your questions: "I own a Gen.3 The suspension thudding noise over potholes is a normal thing with Gen.3 too." And that was the only subject that I touched upon.
My mistake, in having responded in the first place. You're welcome.
 
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Clearly.
My first sentence in response to one of your questions: "I own a Gen.3 The suspension thudding noise over potholes is a normal thing with Gen.3 too." And that was the only subject that I touched upon.
My mistake, in having responded in the first place. You're welcome.
Thanks for your reply's buddy.
I should have mentioned 'findings' instead of 'issues' in my starting post. I think that made all the confusions. My sole intention was to know if it is normal as the service center guys said. In between the exchange of our messages, you have clarified my query. And I understand "It is normal, even happening in the 3rd gen City". Once again thank you for the clarification.

Regarding the milk spill and other things, it is not the happy me who typed all those, but it was the 'many times embarrassed due to panel gap mention by other people' guy. So excuse me if I sounded harsh.
 
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^^ One of my friend got brown color(which looks black) Nov 2012 city has panel gap issue, mine is dec 2012 model(Red) and I didnt find any single place where panel gap is noticeable. About comparison with Ciaz i would say maruti quality is far less than Honda's e.g. Indian swift got zero star rating vs European swift 5 star. Both are manufactured in India only. Which clearly means they sell substandard quality products in India.
Maruti Swift, Datsun GO fail Global NCAP safety test | The Indian Express

Also Honda city come with highest safety rating....
Honda City scored 15.8/16, which is now the highest points ever achieved in ASEAN NCAP!
ASEAN NCAP Q3 2014 Crash Test Results (Honda City & Tata Vista) - Team-BHP

The list will go on....
 
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^^ One of my friend got brown color(which looks black) Nov 2012 city has panel gap issue, mine is dec 2012 model(Red) and I didnt find any single place where panel gap is noticeable. About comparison with Ciaz i would say maruti quality is far less than Honda's e.g. Indian swift got zero star rating vs European swift 5 star. Both are manufactured in India only. Which clearly means they sell substandard quality products in India.
Maruti Swift, Datsun GO fail Global NCAP safety test | The Indian Express

Also Honda city come with highest safety rating....
Honda City scored 15.8/16, which is now the highest points ever achieved in ASEAN NCAP!
ASEAN NCAP Q3 2014 Crash Test Results (Honda City & Tata Vista) - Team-BHP

The list will go on....
Great findings. I have been a follower of team-bhp too, so I had gone through that article. It is indeed a happy news for Honda City owners. But this was also the case when European swift got 5 stars, swift owners were also so proud about the safety Swift offers at such a low price, till the crash test on Indian swift was conducted.

I am not going after Thai Honda City (which is made not in India but in Phra Nakhon Si Ayutthaya, Thailand) is having higher kerb weight, or having better interiors and features, but can anyone help me understand why Honda is not using the same safety ratings while advertising the Indian City.
PS: I would love to be proved wrong.
 
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