My New Honda City in White - The Albus

koushh · Apr 15, 2015

Changed the tyres last week as I was reaching 40k with the stock and was showing lesser road grip symptoms.
Chose Michelin Energy XM2 195/60/R15 and boy it's like driving a new vehicle all together. The grip and handling has improved so much. It has gone quiet, so much so I can now hear only the engine sound even when it's running @ just 70-80 kmph. Control has vastly improved too and car feels planted till 150KMPH. The dealer said I would observe a change of -0.5KMPL in mileage but I am not bothered about that anyway :)

I asked the dealer about the Primacy 3ST as well and mentioned I am open for anything he suggests between the two. In reply, he asked me about my usage and based on that suggested XM2 over Primacy. My usage is 12-13k KMs per year with a couple of road trips and most of the time I drive on high ways (ORR Hyderabad).

I don't know how much quieter it can be with Primacy but I feel there is no need going beyond this.
It's worth every penny, just go for the XM2. I got it for 23k including wheel alignment and balancing.

Hope this helps.

vaibhavdb · Apr 15, 2015

I am using XM2 on my Honda city and I am extremely satisfied with tyres. 3ST are also good tyre, only issue with 3ST is they can not take bad road due to its softer compound.

So if you are mostly driving in good city road then you can go for 3ST else go for XM2.
I have upgraded to 185/65/R15 as this gives extra ground clearance. This has impacted mileage by 1km/ltr

CRACING · Apr 15, 2015

@Dr MUDHAN

Hello Sir,

As I have bought car volt meter recently, I have been using it regular while driving my car. Today I have noticed something strange (Or it might be normal) with the supply voltage when I was coming home. Say the distance from start to end was 10 km, Till 3-4 KMs the voltage was 14.2v (Charging) then it dropped to 12.5v (Not charging) for 2-3 KMs and again raised to 14.2v.

Does that mean, the alternator or its related IC will stop charging the battery if its fully charged?

Have you noticed same on your car?

Thanks...
Best Regards

CRACING · Apr 17, 2015

Hello friends,

I was really bored with the self stitched cotton seat covers and whenever I see other peoples car seats, I wished to get myself one too. Finally it was possible now. [:D]

Here you go:

Product Name and Link: PU Leather aka leatherlite Seat Covers
Product Cost: Rs. 4,440 (Excluding Ebay Discounts) but seller has now increased the price to Rs. 4,775.
Seller Details: Vicky Khanna, Khanna Enterprises, Ghaziabad, UP.

Product Review: I was in touch with this seller past many days, asking the quality, pricing and custom designs but now it was the time to decide and buy. I had already visited few local car shops before but they were quoting 5-6k and pu leather is unknown and stitching takes a week after ordering.

I placed the order in the late night and sent snapshots of sample seat covers of my liking. Next day morning, seller called me to get in touch on whatsapp (Actually I'm a anti-whatsapp person :stupid:

but I installed it!) and he confirmed my requirements. Vertical stripes, beige color with black piping in the edges. Somewhere between 4-5pm, I asked him whether he can show any of stitched covers but to my surprise, he showed me packed parcel and said, the covers are ready and will be dispatched in few. I was amazed by how fast they were able to stitch the covers, within 6 hours. In the evening it was shipped but through Trackon, a worst courier I have experienced many times. Took nearly a week and it reached local office but it wasn't delivered to me, I got a call next telling me we were not able to deliver today either but will try tomorrow. Actually there intention is get to the package myself so they can save fuel and work. It happens every time I get parcels from Trackon. I bring it myself but its not near either.

Anyway, the covers were really awesome. Excellent quality PU leather, thick material and perfect stitching. Design is exactly same as I requested. Seller has two types of qualities, one is normal range which is made of 14mm foam and the other is luxury range (aka custom fit) that is made of 16 mm high density foam and very good quality leatherite which is better then normal. I bought the luxury range which costs 1k more then normal.

Yesterday morning I started to install the new covers myself. First I fitted the front seat covers and removing seats was not required but it was little hard because of tight and thick covers. However, it was not possible to fit covers over rear seats because the seat has to be removed and that was not possible for me. I couldn't find info over internet about rear seat removal of Honda City 3rd gen. In civic and some other cars, there are two bolts under each seat belt locks but I couldn't find such. Asked to akash1886 but he had removed the seats many years ago and couldn't remember now. So only possible way was to get the seat covers fitted in local car shop.

Today I went to a known car shop and they were able to fit the rear seat covers it in 30 mins but due to there fast working character, the covers where not fitted to my satisfaction but now that I have learnt, will fit it again properly. Cost for fitting was Rs. 400.

Seller feedback: Very friendly communication. Fast response over Email, Whatsapp and SMS. Prompt service as well.

Product Snapshots:

Instructions on how to remove rear seat of Honda City 2009-2013 (3rd Gen)

1. First you'll need to remove the bottom part of the seat. There are three clips and one bolt. The bolt is located in the center of two seat belt locks. Its very tight to reach there but possible. You need a 10mm socket spanner to remove that bolt. Check the attached picture and you'll understand the locationsd. Green color markings.

2. Next is to pop up the seat upwards. There are three clips holding the bottom seat. Left, Right and Center. Just pull the seat up and it will unplug. You can look under the seat to view the clips.

3. Once the bottom seat is removed, its not hard to remove the back seat. In the bottom there are two 14mm bolts left and right, next to seat belts. They can be easily removed using a spanner. Other two 14mm bolts are in the top, hidden under plastic cover. Pop the plastic cover using flat screwdriver (Tapped) and remove the 14mm bolt using socket spanner of 14mm. Check the attached picture and you'll understand the locations. Blue color markings.

4. After you remove all the 4 bolts, The back seat should come out. If not, just pull upwards and it will. Note; the seat will be heavy because its frame is attached to it (Unlike bottom seat) so take it out careful with the help of another person.

To assemble just follow steps backwards.

Thanks...
Best Regards

Dr MUDHAN · Apr 18, 2015

.
Dear CRACING

Today morning I drove the car for you to observe the voltmeter reading.

I inserted both the voltmeters – the multifunction (the blue digits) and dedicated (the red digits, you have).
Before engine starting (after three days of parking), the voltmeters shown 12.2v , on idling both showed 14.2/14.3v and while driving 14.4. I also checked while AC on / off no fluctuation.

But exactly in between in both the voltmeters reading dropped to 12.2/12.4 for few seconds and resumed back to 14.4 while running in constant speed.
So you need not worry, there is nothing wrong in the gadget we bought or in our battery charging systems.
I too guess as you feel, there may be a cut off to avoid over charging of battery.

Something from internet discussions:

Also thanks for your write up over ‘Instructions on how to remove rear seat of Honda City 2009-2013 (3rd Gen)’

I know about you and how much efforts you would have taken in every steps from the seller to self-satisfaction. Please also tell us the warmth / heat produced by such material while driving little longer distance.

Regards
Dr MUDHAN

CRACING · Apr 18, 2015

Good Morning Sir

Dr MUDHAN said:

Thanks for testing this for me. Over internet I found mixed answers like some say something is wrong and some say its normal atleast in Honda cars but good know its normal otherwise I was afraid about charging system and if that goes bad, I have to bare plenty of money. [roll]

Dr MUDHAN said:

Yeah I spent many hours digging over internet but was disappointed when I couldn't find such info of our car so decided to share the guide and help follow DIY'er. [:)]

Dr MUDHAN said:

Actually I was more concern about these matters so it delayed my purchase of pu leather seat covers. Like many of users and my friends expressed, pu leather covers get very hot in summer day and emit burnt odor. I asked the same to seller and he assured me that there materials produce least heat and odor. I took him at his words and decided to try it.

When I first got the covers, there was some odor of fresh product but it is reducing day-by-day. As of now I don't feel heat and burnt odor but it takes some time to be sure. Will let you know eventually.

Thanks...
Best Regards

Dr MUDHAN · Apr 18, 2015

.

PART : LXXI

MICHELIN : ENERGY XM2 - Vs - PRIMACY 3 ST

There is a beautiful debate over these two designs.
Kindly go through the following reviews.
Having heard from XM2 friends as they are better in Indian road conditions and value for money, We invite our other friends' experience who own Primacy 3 ST about its performance in our road conditions especially over rough roads.

TopGear burns rubber at Michelin Primacy tyre launch - BBC Top Gear Australia

Michelin Primacy 3 ST tyres tested, now available in Malaysia

Michelin India:
1. - PassengerCar - www.michelin.in

2. Energy XM2 - PassengerCar - www.michelin.in
.

Essarr · Apr 19, 2015

@koushh
- 195/60R15 tyres on 15"x5.5J OEM stock rims falls at lowest end of permisable wheel widths (5.5J, 6J, 6.5J and 7J). I have 195/60R15 Pirelli P1 on 15"x6.5J HRS alloys, which according to wheel experts is the best suited rim width to keep the tyres' side walls near vertical as possible to the ground without fouling the wheel arch well, and the component parts for a 3Gen Honda City. You may want to think about wheel upgrade sometime in the near future, especially if the side wall flex on the Energy XR is on the softer side. If you are a sedate driver, who doesn't corner aggressively hard or try drifting, you should be fine with 5.5J wheels.
- I was also dissuaded from going for Primacy 3ST, on the grounds of 'Indian road conditions', but that should not have been a problem since you drive on highways mostly. The 3ST tread-block makes it quieter than XR, I am told, but the 3ST's marginally softer compound and a more flexible sidewall construction makes it less ideal for broken and potholed roads.

@CRACING
@Dr MUDHAN
- Thanks for sorting out the voltage variances of the electrical system. I think ANHC has a rock-solid electrical system.
- By the way, my OEM battery that was recharged after it went totally dead, is functioning normally, 12.3V to 13.8V using a multimeter.

@CRACING
- Great job on you new seat cover and thanks for the removal instructions. Honest opinion, I think the fit looks slightly loose, and may sag over time. (vaibhavdb's black looks a tight fit) #977) And yes,I also would like to know if it warms up contact areas of the human body on longer drives. The AutoForm U-Form leatherette in my car (which costs more than double of what you paid for yours) does make me sweat a little (thigh and back) on any drive longer than an hour or so. Thinking leather now.

@ALL
- Dunno when I am going to do a photo shoot of "Cinderella" and post it here for all to see (from a comment made by the previous owner after he saw the new HRS alloys and Pirelli tyres, "Ah, Cinderella got new slippers!").

CRACING · Apr 19, 2015

Hello Sir,

Essarr said:

You got the amazing wheels. [cheers]

Eager to see the pictures of your car.

Essarr said:

Yeah, its because the seat covers I got are direct fit over existing/original seat cushion and tied below or backside. But vaibhavdb's seat covers (rather its a cushion) requires original seat cushions to be removed, leaving only foam and new cushion is stitched/pinned inside so it will be tightly fitted. Thats why its expensive, time consuming and mostly done when original cushions are worn.

Essarr said:

Indeed my covers are also getting little hot but not much or I haven't been on long drive yet. Also the material is emitting little burnt odor when car is parked under direct sunlight. [sad]

Essarr said:

One of my friend has Skoda Octavia which has company fitted original leather seats and he also suffered sweating all the time. Later got cotton towel seat covers and is happy with it, even though it doesn't look good for such a nice car.

If you are concern about seats getting hot, then options are cotton, fabric or jute mixed with PU Leather (My seat cover makes sell these types also). Fabric is a best option as it looks good and won't get hot.

Thanks...
Best Regards

Essarr · Apr 19, 2015

CRACING said:

I agree, PVC and Leather seat covers, both have heating properties. Leather heats lesser than faux leather. Well cured and tanned leathers like the English Connolly and certain Italian stuff does not make you sweat at all.

When you say 'burnt smell', I suspect that PVC has not been treated for UV protection, and that is a bad thing.

I recommend you try coating the seat covers in something like Armor All or 303 Product (I am not sure if 303 is available in India, I have used it on boat vinyl seat covers, and never cracked or broke-down the surfaces being constantly in the sun).

303-high-tech-fabric-guard-16oz-7.gif.jpg

And, I am sure that Dr MUDHAN's 'pharmacy' will have the right recommendations for vinyl protection.
-SR

CRACING · Apr 19, 2015

Essarr said:

The smell is present since from I bought (i.e new material smell) the covers and it increases or decreases when the car gets heated or cooled down respectively. The odor is same that is noticed in most of cars having artificial leather seat covers.

Essarr said:

I couldn't find such products here but there are different dashboard protectant products available, i.e 3M Dashboard Dresser with UV protection.

Aren't these products made for plastic dashboard, vinyl, rubber and using them on PU leather is no harm?

I have Proklear TTD Tire Trim Dashboard Polish Protectant but it has no mention of UV protection.

kuwaronline · Apr 20, 2015

Essarr said:

Thanks, my tyre life is still atleast 2 years left (till now just completed 17k km) so changing them now it be good decision(at least financially). But as you suggested whenever I do change I will use Michelin Primacy.

bhaveshce said:

I called seller directly but they said it will take some to ship n deliver. so plan to install before coming to Delhi wasnt successful.

Between this time my car gave me excellent average 18 kmpl(1800km run) with 90% time AC on with 200km city driving which includes Alibug-Mount Abu-Baroda-Ajmer.

Kudos to our highways super silky smooth amazing roads love it.

TSIVipul · Apr 20, 2015

Although I neither own a City, nor I do have these gadgets and all installed on my car, but I have a couple of doubts.

1) The car volt meter is connected to the charging socket, right? Have you guys analyzed the complete circuitry before putting the volt meter into it?
The voltmeter is supposed to be plugged parallel to the alternator - battery circuit. is it actually so? If not, then you guys are playing with wrong numbers.
There can be an another reason for these changes in voltages; presence of electronics which are connected in series with the charging circuit, auto cut off or some other battery management trickery. Alternator produces at around 14.5 volts and that makes your observations near faultless. BUT, if there are no electronics in the circuit then this voltage is not supposed to drop to 12 even if the battery isn't charging. That's how electricals are; load decides the current it will draw and the source decides the potential difference. BTW what's the voltage drop through the charger(the one that charges the battery)?
Other possibility is that the BMS in City is designed in a way that it switches to battery once it is charged; but so quick switching as mentioned by Cracing also raises doubts. Although I couldn't find it out, but if anyone can bring a circuit diagram of a Honda City(this specific model with M/T), then all the doubts can be cleared; I guess Honda A.S.S. may provide it.

2) Coming to tyres; I am using 195 section Turanzas on my car (its not City of course) and they are good. Rest we have used Michelin Primacy of 195 section installed on Civic rims of my best friend's city and they are simply awesome.
IMPORTANT: If you are not upgrading the rim, then don't go for wider rubber. It will be nothing but under utilization of the grip available. No doubt rounded sidewalls are better than flat sidewalls on the tires but that doesn't mean that one will have them rounded like a motorcycle.

My vote: Only Primacy 3ST, nothing comes close. Shorter tire life due to softer compound it rewarded with an exceptional driving experience.

On a lighter note; this banned Bridgestone commercial may have motivated many to go for the brand:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urJi2QCRA18

Essarr · Apr 20, 2015

CRACING said:

I now understand what you meant by 'burnt smell' - it is just 'new-car-smell'.!! Nevertheless, it may be worthwhile finding out from the seat-cover manufacturer if the material is treated for UV protection. If they say "no" or "don't no", then you could try an aftermarket UV protection. The 3M Dashboard Dresser should work - vinyl, pvc and engineered plastics fall into the same group, with different properties though.
WARNING:
- Try it in a small inconspicuous area first (where sunlight falls) to see if there is any unwanted reaction over a period of time (a month?), eg. colour change (darkening or lightening), etc.
- If it works, apply very minimal to the seat and support areas because it will make the surface quite slippery for a few days. The slippery effect will reduce with use, however, the UV protecting properties will remain because it will be absorbed by the material.
Best of luck.

Essarr · Apr 20, 2015

TSIVipul said:

On the subject of tyres, I tend to agree with TSIVipul: Michelin Primacy 3 ST is one of the best 'touring' tyres available in India. However, it does have its negatives, first being tyre life under Indian road conditions (est. 28K-30K in India, as admitted by Mr.MK, CEO of Michelin India, a friend) and a few public reports about the softer sidewalls prone to damage more easily than others, spongy ride (which is actually a good thing for Indian roads), not confidence inspiring in wet conditions. I have gone for rides in an older Octavia shod with 3 ST, and it is very quite. However, though it is likely to be a little different with a Honda City (due overall sound damping properties) it is going to cut down road noise by at least half. And as for handling and braking, some advantage is to be had over stock MRFs. For those who commute highways everyday, the 3 ST (Summer Touring in European lingo) it is possibly the best tyres in India.

Michelin boasts about four technologies incorporated into their Primacy 3 ST tyres: EvenPeak, CushionGuard, Flexmax and Stabiligrip. Just how much of this is for real and how much is it a marketing gimick is anyone's guess.

Flexmax - relates to flexible tread that adapts to the shape of the road surface for a better contact, and so better grip.
Stabiligrip - interlocking bands built into the small grooves of tread-block to minimise block deformation. which is suppose to water dispelling and improve braking in wet.
Evenpeak - something that refers to noise generated by the tyre without peaking in any one particular frequency of the audio spectrum - say, sum of averages.
CushionGuard - a side wall cushioning compound that works in tandem with Flexmax to reduce vibrations.

Why am I riding on Pirelli P1s when I have a discount coupon for 3 ST? When I look at the foreign big four (Michelin, Goodyear, Bridgestone and Pirelli), I find marketing strategies of Michelin and Bridgestone they are more like in-you-face offer you can't refuse. Goodyear can be a little subdued compared to the two. Who has seen a Pirelli ad in India? Anyone? That is not reason in all, I have used Pirelli's (P600, P700 and P7) for 19-odd years and the kind of feed back they offer to the driver in all kinds of weather conditions is quite exceptional, and I never had a flat in all those years.

If anyone wants to read more about tyres:
Michelin Primacy 3 | the Michelin Primacy 3 reviewed and rated - TyreReviews
Pirelli CINTURATO P1 | the Pirelli CINTURATO P1 reviewed and rated - TyreReviews
Bridgestone Turanza ER30 | the Bridgestone Turanza ER30 reviewed and rated - TyreReviews

My New Honda City in White - The Albus

koushh

V4

vaibhavdb

V4

CRACING

V10

CRACING

V10

Dr MUDHAN

Honoured Member

CRACING

V10

Dr MUDHAN

Honoured Member

Essarr

V4

CRACING

V10

Essarr

V4

CRACING

V10

kuwaronline

V6

TSIVipul

V12

Essarr

V4

Essarr

V4