My New Honda City in White - The Albus

Dr MUDHAN · Oct 28, 2014

@ CRACING

I preferred soft one as likely damage to paint surface is less. Really less risky for a regularly maintained car like us, especially if you plan to clay for every 6 months.

Easy to mold, hold and pliable otherwise if clay (of any quality) falls on the ground, it becomes useless. Other grades are harder, they may be good to clean a car always parked outside and more prone for contamination.

I have made four pieces and the balance 3 pieces are still unused. Soft, in my opinion will have more keeping quality, if stored properly in the origional container.

Reusing , theoretically possible but I would prefer not to use it again as it is discolored, mixed with contaminants/particles and I use the used one to clean my porcelain wash basin and tile stains at home. [;)]

CRACING · Oct 28, 2014

Dr MUDHAN said:

@ CRACING

I preferred soft one as likely damage to paint surface is less. Really less risky for a regularly maintained car like us, especially if you plan to clay for every 6 months.

Easy to mold, hold and pliable otherwise if clay (of any quality) falls on the ground, it becomes useless. Other grades are harder, they may be good to clean a car always parked outside and more prone for contamination.

I have made four pieces and the balance 3 pieces are still unused. Soft, in my opinion will have more keeping quality, if stored properly in the origional container.

Reusing , theoretically possible but I would prefer not to use it again as it is discolored, mixed with contaminants/particles and I use the used one to clean my porcelain wash basin and tile stains at home. [;)]

Thanks once again. I will go for soft bar. [:)]

I will be using is Proklears RAW Xtreme as clay lube. Hope it will work fine.

Kichu · Oct 29, 2014

Dr MUDHAN said:

Hi Dr MUDHAN,

I think its time for me to change the battery since I can feel the weakness while cranking the engine, even though it never failed to do the job.

Battery Mfd in February 2009 . So I believe it served me a very good period of time. I brought my car on April 2009. That means more than 5.5 years [:D]

Yesterday I took the battery off, for cleaning its terminals. While checking the cell voltage I found one of the cell is having less than 2v and the other is having less than 1v. :( So its the time for me to change the battery before it stops working completely.

So coming to the point. Here I would like to know about the difference between Amaron Pro and Flo.
Apart from the extra 1 year warranty, does the PRO offers better CCA? I couldn't find the spec details in their site and the problem is, the answers from the battery shops varies from person to person. [frustration]

Did you get any information about the same from a trustful source?

Regards.,

Dr MUDHAN · Oct 29, 2014

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@ Kichu

AMARON FLO is value for money. AMARON PRO is a premium battery, with best of technology @ a cost!

AMARON Car Battery PRO integrate Amaron's premium SILVEN X technology for ultra low-corrosion and AMARON literature picture shows both AMARON PRO & FLO have better CCA.

IMO, AMARON PRO may have a sustained CCA in a long run compared to FLO.

FOR THE BENEFIT OF OTHER READERS / FORUM FRIENDS

READ THIS IN MY OTHER THREAD :

Guide: How To Make Your Car Battery Go On & On!

Dr MUDHAN said:

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Kichu · Oct 29, 2014

Dr MUDHAN said:

Its the same "premium silver alloys (SILVEN X) technology" is used in the AMARON FLESH batteries too. (The Battery with 12 months Warranty)

And the FLESH too got almost similar picture as PRO.

Dr MUDHAN said:

So you are also not provided with the exact info? [confused]

Dr MUDHAN · Oct 30, 2014

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Kichu said:

If you really & seriously want exact information…there is only one way, put a RTI application against AMORAN and get it ! [lol]

Kichu, I tried my best to provide you the relevant information that differentiates various grades of this product. But it is considered to be a trade secret.

When, I asked one of my friend who is a chemical engineer, who did a project on battery chemistry, he simply told me, ‘Your car is driven by an engine using i-VTEC technology; does it mean that all Honda cars are using the same engine.. the tech has to be tuned to the individual need of the car whether City, Civic or Accord and this is what happened with better grades’

He is right. i-DTEC of Honda amaze is not exactly same for ANHC (4TH Gen). The 1.5 litre diesel power plant borrowed from the Amaze has been tuned up for more power and torque in the Honda City without compromising a lot on fuel efficiency that the Amaze i-DTEC is known for.

What I try to say here that all the grades of AMORAN whether FRESH /FLO /PRO can’t be the same. Some times in the absence of data we have to trust based on our personal experience. I had in my earlier cars Exide, Standard Faruka, Amoran GO & PRO and, I felt PRO is the best. Honestly, it is absolutely my experience and no way I am trying to influence others.

I feel, in the absence of data or proof, only logical thinking can save our time and sleep.

That is what made me to quote

which I hope, you will understand. [:)]

Dr MUDHAN · Oct 30, 2014

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PART: LIX:

MY ALBUS: BIRTH DAY GIFTS - 3D KAGU Foot Mats

The good thing I have done that I haven’t removed my original car carpet just for a PVC full end to end mat.

I would say the original carpet is indispensable as the same has some logic- they are fire resistant.

The next question, how best to protect the same and have a nice, clean, and a beautiful interior. I had a set of simple beige universal mats which are common in all vehicles.

Unexpectedly, my ALBUS got a gift, not from me, but from my son in law (a car enthusiast who owns a black Ford Mustang & a red Volkswagen Polo GT TSI & also our forum member!) ; the gift transformed the interior of my ALBUS with a rich, cozy & an elegant wrap.

Many floor mats are available, car specific and universal types. Some of them are of real good quality and many of them are cheap, having repulsive odor.

If you are the one who takes care of everything in a car, especially if you have the habit of putting carefully folded paper sheet to avoid spoiling of foot mats during raining day, you may agree with me, what I am saying further!

A car like ANHC deserves a spick and span foot well and a visual appeal. Only few mats make the car look exceptional.

One such unbeatable product is Max Spider 3d Kogu mats & they are definitely most expensive set of floor mats ever. We paid Rs.5350/- @ local shop.

Their waterproof nature, quality of material , Braided Pattern, logical design, easy cleaning & maintenance, patented Velcro layer at the back for anti-skid & safety makes it a class apart.

They fit in perfectly and allow less movement (of foot mat), leaving the carpet relatively clean.

They are made in Taiwan and can be very easily cleaned with just regular shampoo / soap water.

Next I thought, which one should I go for -Black or Beige, I preferred Beige to suit my interior as I like the light colored ambience. It makes me to feel clean, airy and comfortable and I avoided black as dust will be more visible on black surface.

These mats look fabulous, and the car doesn't even look as if it has any!

FOOT NOTE:

My ALBUS is due for servicing next month and would like to take out the 3D Kagu Mats and put the old mats as I am afraid whether these mats will be handled by them like the way I take care.

I cannot compare these mats with its competitors who started imitating 3D , even if they are value for money.

There are misleading, counterfeit products of different versions of 3D Kagu, named Universal 3D Kagu, cheaper 3D Kagu (which has less Velcro against Max Spider Lining) in the market for which we should be careful!

Metal Garnish on driver side to protect wear and tear on Mat from the Right foot gives a sporty look in some other mats but they are slippery.

3D KAGU - THE PRODUCT DESCRIPTION SAYS:

These mats come with three layer technology. First layer is made of TPR (Thermo Plastic Rubber), second layer with Layered XPE & the third layer is made up of Maxpider mesh.
Rapider is a patented product from 3D, Taiwan. This will prevent the movement of the mats in the floor area once placed on the carpet.

• Odor less - shock absorbent - sound insulating barrier - Water proof & washable - Can sustain major variations in climate, it won’t lose the shape- Custom made for each cars floor dimensions.
• These custom-fit rubber floor mats by 3D are named for the Taiwanese word "kagu," which means "long-lasting" or "very durable." These mats live up to that name because their sturdy rubber construction will stand up to constant wear and hold its shape for years to come.
• The top layer is made of thermoplastic rubber, which is rigid and will not deform over time. The carbon fiber embossed pattern in the rubber creates a textured surface that helps keep your feet firmly in place, even when it's wet. It also scrapes snow and mud off your shoes. The driver's-side liner has a heel pad for added grip and durability.
• The inner layer is made of XPE - a cross-linked polyethylene. XPE is waterproof, sound insulating, shock absorbent, and thermostatic. This layer blocks water from reaching your carpet, and it can help prevent road noise from disturbing your drive. It can also help regulate the temperature inside your car by preventing hot or cold air from entering or escaping through the floor.
• Patented MAXpider fibers make up the bottom layer. These fibers grip your carpet without damaging it. This enhances safety by keeping the mats from sliding and by preventing the driver’s-side mat from getting stuck under the pedals. And because the mats won't shift and expose areas of your carpet, they offer even better protection from dirt.

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TSIVipul · Oct 30, 2014

@DR MUDHAN:
Fantastic thread(so is the car) I must say and very informative too. Have read most of it(not all as its very long) and simply liked most of it.

Dr MUDHAN said:

I beg to disagree. Amaze and City, both have got exactly same engine in same state of tune and hence producing same power and torque figures at same engine speeds(==RPM). Only difference is of the gearbox as the City has got a six speed gearbox with tighter ratios while the Amaze uses a 5 speed gearbox. In fact lighter eight of Amaze and same engine as of City is hat makes Amaze way quicker than the City off the line.

Kichu · Oct 30, 2014

Dear Mudhan,

Did I sound rude [confused]

. Extremely sorry if you felt bad.

Dr MUDHAN said:

Hey, I do know that very well.:) You are one of the best member over here in TAI, who provides detailed information even for a very small question from needy members.
Thats really appreciable [clap]

And that is the reason for me to ask you this question when I found difficulty in finding the answer either from online or offline.

Now considering your example "i-VTEC technology". Yes, what you said is true.
But my doubts were not at all about the DETAILS of the TECHNOLOGY what AMARON use in their batteries.
I was looking for the PERFORMANCE figure of the different grade batteries. For example the POWER, TORQUE, MILEAGE etc of the cars City, Civic and Accord of the same brand HONDA. (I believe, other than the performance figures, these names of technology wont really help a common man to make comparison with the available cars to make a decision to pick one among them.)

When considering an automotive battery, its performance figures are the AH, CCA and RC. So how can we say CCA value is a Trade Secret of the battery manufacturer. Its almost similar to saying mileage/power/torque is a trade secret of the car manufacture. Am I right Sir?
Other than the CCA, my query was not really into the technical specs like dimensions of the cells/plates or about the ingredients in the electrolyte they use in their batteries(Since I don't have a good knowledge in chemistry these physical/technical specs wont really help me.)

Dr MUDHAN said:

Experience does matter, that is the main reason for me to choose the brand AMARON. But the problem is, since I'm new to automotive I don't really have any kind of experiences with PRO and FLO. So I relied on customer feedback and found PRO to be the best. Even though the difference is just Rs.500/- It was not easy for me to let it go(Not the money, but the thoughts about its CCA [lol]

)

Now here is a Good news for Me, You and for the people who are not sure about the CCA of Amaron PRO 50B20L. PRO is definitely a high performing Battery than the FLO with better CCA and RC .
The CCA and RC of the same is 380 and 66 respectively, which is "about" 38CCA and 6RC more than the FLO(Sorry, I forgot the exact number, if my memory is true FLO got 342CCA and 60RC).
And YES, Neither CCA nor RC is a trade secret of Amaron. An Amaron battery seller with minimum common sense can tell you its CCA.(Realizing most of the sellers are really not good at their profession.)

Dr MUDHAN said:

So true :D.
Sir, I really like your wordings :)
Had lots of sleepless night due to my illogical thinking on various unanswerable doubts.

Regards,

Kichu · Oct 31, 2014

Dr MUDHAN said:

Attaching your own Image for more clarification, there you can read the CCA of your new Battery next to its model number(Front of the Battery). Some how I missed it earlier [roll]

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Dr MUDHAN · Oct 31, 2014

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@ TSIVipul

Thanks for your visit to my thread and compliments. I correct myself, you are right; the diesel engine in both Amaze and City has the same specs –1.5-litre 98.6bhp 16V i-DTEC Diesel Engine, 1498cc, 98.6bhp@3600rpm, 200Nm@1750rpm.

@ Kichu

I know you, neither had I mistaken you nor you should about me. We are helping each other, in the process other forum members. Your sustained efforts got you the answer.

Oh, it is available in my own write up!

Great, thank you for the information which I too not thought of! [clap]

TSIVipul · Nov 2, 2014

Dr MUDHAN said:

I am humbled sirji [:D]

BTW I have read a major part of your thread and once helped a friend with his Honda City after going through a part of your thread.

A well deserving thread yours is for 5 stars. Very detailed, very neat and most informative ownership thread on the entire forum(I haven't even updated mine for long). :stupid:

City and Amaze have good engines and being all aluminium units, they have done one thing at their best - remove the nose heaviness. The City I-Dtec doesn't feel like it is as nose heavy as say, a Vento. What they have done even better is that they have pushed the engine a bit to the rear part of the engine bay(yes, the engine is actually behind the front axle) which has resulted in better agility(Skoda guys are kings here, the nose heavy Rapid is still more agile and confident). But with the small hood of amaze, the thing is different. Only issue is with NVH and the all aluminium engine is the culprit here, I wish they opted for a CI block(but that would have made the car nose heavy) and the NVH would have been a different story.

Different gearbox as well as difference in dynamics do make the Amaze feel like there is a difference in the powertrains of both the cars - adding to that is the fact that Amaze has an electronically limited top speed of 150 kph(it never crosses 150, at least never crossed in my hands) while City diesel simply sails past 180 kph(I am yet to touch 190 on a City diesel as the engine is dead after 160 itself and takes years to reach even 180) and can cross 190 also.

BTW, since you have done so much on your City, are there any plans to upgrade its shoes? The tires of City are highly inadequate at high speeds or on wet roads(if you find them adequate then please drive a Fiat Linea) and hence hard braking at any speeds above 100 kph is not much confident in a City as the tires simply keep on begging for more grip for such a big and heavy car.
I personally recommend you to go for 195 section rubber as soon as possible. Anything above 195 will start showing out of body or may end up scraping your wheel arches on bad roads. And yes, if you plan changing the tires, the please change the rims too(Else I'll file a legal suit against you) and go for 16 inchers with slightly low profile rubber(that adds to the joy of driving and handling by many folds) as the current rims are not suited for anything above 165 section tires.

CCA is a very complicated thing IMO.
I guess for the modern aluminium engines, even a lower CCA can also do as they don't require long cranks as well as higher number of cranks even in the biting cold.
The DC series motor(of course geared) that is used as a starter motor in engines do draw such high current for maximum a second or two while starting and then the value of current being drawn fells down after the motor catches a bit of speed. Hence it is always better to have a bit longer cranks than having multiple. Having multiple cranks make the motor draw high current again and again which not only results in damage to starter motor(motor winding do get extremely hot due to high resistance when high current flows) but can also cause damage to wiring(battery to motor wire always turns sightly hot while cranking) and you actually loose on your battery life. I am into research and while doing some research on HEVs I came across a person from M&M R&D at SAE SIMCOMVEC in Chennai in December 2013 and he told me that number of cranks has the biggest effect on battery life. Here is a graph of voltage and current characteristics of a battery at the time of cranking(taken from the research paper from same Mahindra guy):

Dr MUDHAN · Nov 2, 2014

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Dear TSIVipul

First accept my sentiments:

The generation is changing and the Humility has become a rare gem found in humans today.
I don’t know about your age but I am overwhelmed by your humility & knowledge.
Thank you very much for your response once again which betokens your broad, generous heart.

Next, coming to the subject:

Honestly, the only thing I regret the ride quality of ANHC on bad roads. I can’t not feel the rubberized reflex.

I have been longing for this modification but, time has not come. I have seen abroad ANHCs with R16 wheels with better tyre profile, it really attracted me. But, I am worried whether such low profile tyres will suit our worst road conditions. So, I have decided to change the tyres as soon as possible with195 section rubber as rightly suggested by you.

At present, my ALBUS has Goodyear GT3, which I understand are the worst possible OEM tires.

I need some support to decide, which one should I go for - Yokohama A drive or Michelin XM2?

As the City comes with a 15 x 5.5J , & I believe which can support the 195/60 R15 size fine without any issues. Some even gone for 195/65 R15, which I feel might affect the mileage more and Odo reading.

I don’t know whether I am right, my conscious feel that Yoko would be a better choice. Correct me if I am wrong!

Regards,
Dr MUDHAN

TSIVipul · Nov 2, 2014

Dr MUDHAN said:

Thank you sirji, I am even more humbled now [:D]

Coming to age, I have a mathematical formula for that:

[(Dr Mudhan/2)-6.2] = TSIVipul

Now pick up the calculator and move ahead to score a perfect hundred in elementary school mathematics :stupid:

Blame the skinny high profile tyres for that. BTW how much air(in psi) you run the tires at? How much difference you keep between front and rear ones?

None, I'd say.

Note: What all is written below is based on my personal experience on the mentioned cars. Neither I believe the reviews nor I am geeky enough to lick them all(I believe my experience).

Yokohama A drive is a hard tire and XM2 is also nothing special.

I'd instead recommend based on my own experience. I have been running the City of my friend(lost in an accident just two weeks back) on a 195/65 section tires on the Civic rims(15" X 6" - ya that's the 'J' thing which I haven't wrote), my Corolla is running on 195/65 R15 of a different made and my Laura is running on 205/65 R15 of a different made and here is my report:

City was running on 195/65 R15 Michelin Primacy 3ST
Corolla is running on 195/65 R15 Bridgestone Turanza ER300
Laura is running on 205/65 R15 Michelin Energy XM2

Of these three, the tire which I hate most is the energy XM2 and my favorite is the Michelin Primacy 3ST. Hence I'd say that you better keep the Yokohama A and Michelin XM2 aside and go for either Bridgestone Turanza ER300 or Michelin Primacy 3ST, none is a low cost tire of the two but both are completely paisa wasool tires with a whole lot of differences.

Michelin Primacy 3ST: Made for handling this tire is with fantastic grip on any surface, silent operation but not very good in terms of comfort(still its very good). Maybe its sidewalls are a bit stiffer(this is based purely on my experience and for Honda City I-DTEC the riding comfort may increase due to heavier nose)
Bridgestone Turanza ER 300: My personal preference this is and my Corolla runs on the same. Good handling, fantastic grip on dry and wet surfaces, fantastic ride and lower in cost as compared to Primacy 3ST. Road noise is an issue but that is also faced after you cross the speed of 130-140 kph, under that, this tyre is also silent.

So my recommendation is none other than either Michelin Primacy 3ST if you have handling on the top of your priority chart and is willing to spend 500-600 bucks higher. Else go for Bridgestone Turanza ER300 if you want a tried and tested product(proved its worthiness on Honda Civic too) and have driving comfort on the top of your priority chart and you don't go above 140-150 frequently.

5.5J means 5.5 inches = 139.7 mm or 13.97 cm

If you go for a rim of size 15X6J(borrow from Corolla or Civic or Laura) then:
6J means 6 inches = 152.4 mm or 15.24 cm

That makes a difference of 15.24-13.97 = 1.27 cm!! Hell, that's a lot of difference!!
If 2 cm difference in tyre profile can make a lot of difference then 1.27cm difference at the rim is also going to make a big difference.

Where it will do?
Simple, on the rounded part of sidewalls. With undersized rims, you can never enjoy those added 2cm of your tire width. [frustration]

Okay, now take it this way:
If you buy the Michelin Primacy 3ST for 5700 rs each, then you end up paying INR 22800 for just 2cm of width.
Now you have actually threw 22800 Rs of yours down the drain as your current rims can't help you utilize that increased 2cm at all.

So, if you want to save yourself from any legal action from my side, then either don't spend that money or if you spend your money on tires then spend 20 thousand more for another 1.27 cm width of rims, so that you can actually use the 2 cm width you have bought into use.

Hence it becomes a total investment of 40k but what you will get is added safety(better grip and braking), better ride and handling and of course - fun to drive factor will increase. So you can wait for your first set of tires to retire or go for newer ones, BTW black rims(with black painted front brake calliper and rear brake drum) will look killer on your car.

As already mentioned, go for either Michelin Primacy 3ST or for Bridgestone Turanza ER 300 depending on your requirement. I can bet that one day you will recall the name of this foolish chap with a smile of satisfaction on your face.

CRACING · Nov 2, 2014

TSIVipul said:

Wow. So young but full of knowledge and experience. I really appreciate you bro.

Thanks for your awesome guide. It helped me too. My car tyres life is coming to end and I need to change them soon. Stock tyres are Michelin Energy XM1 sized 175/65 R15 and wheels are Enkei alloys sized 15" X 5.5".

I have done research about new 3ST tyres from Michelin and found something special about it. I also expected that you'll recommend it and it did happen. [:)]

195/60 R15 is available in Michelin Primacy 3ST but not in Bridgestone Turanza ER300 so if DR. wants to opt Bridgestone Turanza ER300 then he has to get new set of wheels too (6" width). I agree about your 2cm explanation though.

Thanks again...
Best Regards

My New Honda City in White - The Albus

Dr MUDHAN

Honoured Member

CRACING

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Kichu

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