Can FIAT Re-Establish Itself in India?

[Raja]

Re: Car & Manufacturer Wise Monthly Sales

Dear Raja, Statistics never help a real life situation.

I wonder where you can show Fiat is doing well in recent times. Brazil has been their abode since long time and that is almost like a bread winner for them presently .I don't know if they are recovering anywhere but so far they are in limp mode.
Many many kinds of niggles in every other car ex showroom has put off the confidence in owners.
My friends from Europe Laugh at me when I say I have a fiat. They would say what Chinese is to world is what fiat is to Europe "poor quality,poor performance in gleaming package".

Darling iam not saying you are saying anything wrong . Statistics helps us to see we're the company is going factually . In India they are super flop as of now .
If you read my post I have personally pointed out that interior qualities and parts are major problems for fiat cars .
My freind was very happy with the a.s.s provided but said fiat dosent send parts fast and it made his car stay in the a.s.s for 15 days .

Iam just trying to say is fiat are pioneers is many fields specially engine thing . The global body agrees that , and they gave awards to them they go by facts when they award some 1 for a tech innovation .

Fiat is posting loss in Europe agreed but so is every company in europe and you must be very well aware about the sluggish economy in Europe .
But surprisingly in USA they are picking up and Chrysler posted a good amount of profit this quater . Fiat 500 is selling well in USA and is in top 10 best selling cars in uk as of now .Iam not saying this out of thin air here are the facts bellow .( facts help here )

http://www.rushlane.com/fiat-500-ha...in-uk-at-a-price-of-32000-photos-1234882.html

http://www.manufacturing.net/news/2012/07/chrysler-posts-436m-second-quarter-profit

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...ng-a-foothold-in-us-car-market/1#.UEeZTGthiSM

People can laugh on fiat because in Europe fiat is a common mans brand there is nothing aspiritional linked to owning a fiat .And I have freinds in England who are extremely happy with fiat 500 and proudly say so that it's better then the BMW mini and VW bettle so ?


About subjective opinion let me give you a example - on strome thread there is one member who posted he had 3 safaris and waiting for strome eagerly . It means he is very happy with safari right ? Perfect example of subjective opinion .
Objective - safari has quality control issues , and it sells less compared to competetion and this can be proved only by facts .

You sold the vista in 1 year and suffered huge depreciation loss , now you will sell punto the same thing will happen .

But think twice before taking a decision you have beautiful car which infacts gives you immense satisfaction when you drive it that's what you'r ownership report tells .

 

[jayadev]

Re: Car & Manufacturer Wise Monthly Sales

You sold the vista in 1 year and suffered huge depreciation loss , now you will sell punto the same thing will happen .

Motive is to save myself from huge loss waiting for me in future "better not late than ever "

But think twice before taking a decision you have beautiful car which infacts gives you immense satisfaction when you drive it that's what you'r ownership report tells .

It struck me when Raj sold off his car.the depreciation he suffered is much tolerable I suppose concerning a Fiat so I think "strike it when Iron is hot."

Considering immense pleasure ,wow sweet words. Let us return to India!
Traffic,potholes,narrow roads,Animals,Law harassment,removal of Sun-film it seems payoff is too much for little bit of pleasure while driving.
I will have to adjust with my petite bike Avengy.

 

[Raja]

Re: Car & Manufacturer Wise Monthly Sales

Motive is to save myself from huge loss waiting for me in future "better not late than ever "


It struck me when Raj sold off his car.the depreciation he suffered is much tolerable I suppose concerning a Fiat so I think "strike it when Iron is hot."

Considering immense pleasure ,wow sweet words. Let us return to India!
Traffic,potholes,narrow roads,Animals,Law harassment,removal of Sun-film it seems payoff is too much for little bit of pleasure while driving.
I will have to adjust with my petite bike Avengy.

If you think it can give you a lot of trouble later on then it is your decision finally . But then if you knew the road conditions are not good why did you buy it in the first place ? .
Iam asking you something very personal you can refuse to comment if you want too . My question - do you take depreciation of your car on income tax ? If not mistaken iam not sure but for 3 years you can take , so wait for a year take that benefit and then sell off because if you calculate that way their wont be much loss .

 

[jayadev]

Re: Car & Manufacturer Wise Monthly Sales

I think We are going way off topic

If you think it can give you a lot of trouble later on then it is your decision finally .

No I dont think it will give lot of trouble later ,(Btw what trouble?)

But then if you knew the road conditions are not good why did you buy it in the first place ? .

I think since last 3 year lot of things have changed dramatically.members from my hometown Kannur can clearly agree with that.

Iam asking you something very personal you can refuse to comment if you want too . My question - do you take depreciation of your car on income tax ? If not mistaken iam not sure but for 3 years you can take , so wait for a year take that benefit and then sell off because if you calculate that way their wont be much loss .

I did not get what you mean here. My maths is not at all good.neither I did any calculations yet.
I said "contemplation" .I have not seen any other better car , other than 4x4 UVs for the given price range.

 

[Raja]

Re: Car & Manufacturer Wise Monthly Sales

I think We are going way off topic

No I dont think it will give lot of trouble later ,(Btw what trouble?)


I think since last 3 year lot of things have changed dramatically.members from my hometown Kannur can clearly agree with that.



I did not get what you mean here. My maths is not at all good.neither I did any calculations yet.
I said "contemplation" .I have not seen any other better car , other than 4x4 UVs for the given price range.

Since we are royaly already gone OT
We will continue this talk about your car on your ownership thread ok ?

 

[dharmesh]

Re: Car & Manufacturer Wise Monthly Sales

I think the discussion should be moved to new thread named "FIAT discussions".

 

[carfreak]

Re: Car & Manufacturer Wise Monthly Sales

Well, I agree with Raja and Dharmesh that we are going OT. But since the topic has come up here are my two cents -

* FIAT India not considering customer demands: a) Why did they come up with best in classs ground clearance? (What is FORD doing to FIGO inspite out of so many scrapping issues due to poor GC! Recently my friend FIGO's oil filter was smashed while negotiating a hump!) How about Hyundai's perennial suspension and steering issues ??? How about Suzuki's ever lasting rattling issues and tin like build quality ?? No car is perfect, we can go on and on and on discussing.

b) Much better plastic quality in 2012 Puntos and Lineas. Agree its not class leading but still improved over previous models!

c) New AC unit.

* FIAT after sales is bad: Well, people always do crib about mishappenings and never ever a good gesture from FIAT gets highlighted. Other manufacturers are also looting public now. No one is a saint! Recently I suffered a dent on the boot door and gave it for tinkering and repaint job at Aadya! They did a fantastic job! On request, car was home delivered within 5 hours and very next day got a customer satisfaction call from Aadya motors CRM and FIAT ITALY! Yes, am repeating! Got a call from FIAT ITALY to know about my feedback regarding the bodyshop work! I was quite impressed!

Sluggish pick up: Then what about 3 pot Fabias and Polos ?? (With due respect to these cars!)

After I bought Punto, my wife who was not a keen driver now wants to get behind the wheel everytime we are in the car! Why? - car has given her immense confidence due to PRECISE steering feedback, rock solid body, amazing braking and high speed stability. People say its difficult for ladies to drive Punto. I disagree! My wife enjoys the car more than me now! Her driving skills have improved leaps and bounds after I bought FIAT. Now she never hestitates for a long drive because of the car capabilities. I was thinking she would be more comfortable driving my Alto in city because of obvious reasons! But she proved what a FIAT can do to a true car lover!

I agree that FIAT should be more aggressive in marketing and should come up with exclusive showrooms and ASS, new models etc.. Its confirmed news that in Blore over next 3-4 months, we will have atleast 2 exclusive FIAT outlets..

Happy motoring guys

 

[dharmesh]

Re: Car & Manufacturer Wise Monthly Sales

@carfreak: There are more problems with other cars than FIAT cars, but still the other cars you mentioned are doing good sales figures as compared to FIAT's. That is the main concern we all are discussing here.

 

[carfreak]

Re: Car & Manufacturer Wise Monthly Sales

@ dharmesh, It is well known fact and many auto gurus have accepted that Indian car market is the most unique market in the world. Because here decisions are driven by brands and sentiments rather than knowledge based! In Gemany, when peopl buy a car, its like a research project to them. They do in and out research of cars and when they decide upon a model, they are 100 % aware and sure about their decision. How many of us do that here? Off late, thanks to forums like TAI which are helping people in informed decision making process.

PS: Just came to know that one more person has completed a successful Bangalore - Ladakh expedition in his beloved LINEA! More than 1 have achieved this feat in a FIAT! Another person whom I know has driven his Punto all the way from Noida till Kanyakumari without a fuss! This shows the capabilities of these amazing machines! PERIOD!

 

[anand_p_r]

Motive is to save myself from huge loss waiting for me in future "better not late than ever "


It struck me when Raj sold off his car.the depreciation he suffered is much tolerable I suppose concerning a Fiat so I think "strike it when Iron is hot."

Considering immense pleasure ,wow sweet words. Let us return to India!
Traffic,potholes,narrow roads,Animals,Law harassment,removal of Sun-film it seems payoff is too much for little bit of pleasure while driving.
I will have to adjust with my petite bike Avengy.

Sorry to hear this mate. I guess if u are out of town, and there's no one driving it, and if this is going to continue for a long period, then better sell it off. There is no point in paying EMI's , and is clearly a dead investment.

What kind of depriciation did Raj encounter while selling it off?

Fiat status is maligned beyond repair. its not only in India but globaly.
Sometimes myself too feel sick to see Fiat Logo on such a good car called Punto. I wish Punto was made by Nissan or Peugeot.

I dont think there is such a remarkable thing in fiats mjd than no other.
Hyundai engines too are at par.Whole world knows that none can beat Toyota diesel in terms of reliability. It was the Maruti suzuki's diesal car success which made us aware what Fiat engine is other wise who cares or who else is buying Mjd anywhere else in this earth ?

After Raj_5004's sale of Punto, I am contemplating to sell mine too and buy an SUV like Bolero preferably pre-owned.

Seriosuly, FIAT has to do miracles to come out of this. See how renault , nissan etc are coping up. They started off 1-2 years back, established showrooms/ service centre's/dealership's through out the country, brought in new models on a regualr basis and their marketing strategy defenitely is working.
With fiat, they have decided to start off with their own dealership in the country. Its been 6 months, and they just succeeded in starting just 2-3 centre's and no new launches too. And the ' Over 6 million people in world trust multijet, why not u?' is totally not working. There is no innovations or strategies they are coming up with.

 

[Raja]

Re: Car & Manufacturer Wise Monthly Sales

Well, I agree with Raja and Dharmesh that we are going OT. But since the topic has come up here are my two cents -
...............

Very good post +100.

The whole problem in India is to blow up a small issue and make it a life or death issue at times and ignore much bigger issues .

Fiat and tata motors are anybody's punching bags , punch it as much as you want if you have reasons or no reasons .

Same people who bash tata cars and fiat cars are extremely ok with swifts medicore braking , hyundais streeing rattling issues and are sometimes in love with etios and livas interiors too and call mahindra verito cheap sedan Which is actually a capable sedan .

Fiat group needs to focus on India , please some wonderful products here .

 

[carfreak]

Re: Car & Manufacturer Wise Monthly Sales

Very good post +100.

Same people who bash tata cars and fiat cars are extremely ok with swifts medicore braking , hyundais streeing rattling issues and are sometimes in love with etios and livas interiors too and call mahindra verito cheap sedan Which is actually a capable sedan .

@ Raja, Thanks for your thoughts and thanks for mentioning Etios and Liva. Damn, How did I miss them! Their speedo appears as if someone has cut a piece of cardboard and placed it inside! Nano has much better interiors. Irony is, people complain about cost cutting in Nano which is almost 1/4th of Etios / Liva price and happily gets cheated by so called better brands

 

[jayadev]

@ carfreakk, "beauty lies in the eyes of beholder" liva etios interiors may not be of your like but lot lot many are satisfied and enjoying it,Reasonably Much more than fiat cars .

 

[Gurrala74]

@ carfreakk, "beauty lies in the eyes of beholder" liva etios interiors may not be of your like but lot lot many are satisfied and enjoying it,Reasonably Much more than fiat cars .

Hey guys !! it seems lot of OT on this thread shows it just hot to touch !!

Anyway all good things about Fiat and I agree that yes Fiat is really trying hard to get back to its old positioning in India, but are bit slow and they really need to move faster and bit aggressive with more and more outlets across the country and aggressive advertising. Without advertising nothing will work in India

Now I just felt to answer Jayadev's post here. If this statement of yours on Liva is your personal opinion and subjective, then it is fine !!, but if you generalise it, then I have to ask you that who are these lot lot many people who satisfied and do you have any supporting for this ?? I am really surprised to see for the first time some body appreciating the interiors of Liva where a Toyota dealer near to my place where one of the GM him self said during our personal chat that he was terribly disappointed with Etios interiors. This I told you for the evidence part, apart from this two of my friends who bought Etios Sedan and Liva really breaking their heads after a month of their purchase that their bad decision just going for "T" badge, issues are plenty and biggest is that how they have missed out this interiors ugly set-up.

Finally my subjective opinion, I have never seen such a cost cutting thinking and setting up such shabby interiors of Liva and Etios by Toyata, A most reliable and whose products always look rich from exterior and interior has gone mad like Maruti for the first time. I just cannot digest that these products are from Toyota with my previous exposure to Corolla & Innova and these interiors can never match with the beautiful built interiors of PUNTO !!

Sorry, this post looks bit OT and there is no personal offence on any brand or any person here !!

 

[autosafari]

When Jayadev says FIAT is doomed to fail globally, he has got a point or two but there are other view points too.

FIAT is not a great international brand name
They are the 9th largest car company in the world but do not enjoy a good brand image.

Infact there are several jokes about FIAT in Europe and USA.
(FIAT - Fix It Again Tony)

They have been like ON and OFF for quite a long time.

10 years ago it was for Sale. FIAT owners were trying to sell the automobile division to GM. Sold 20% in 2000 itself and was planning to sell the remining part also to GM. This deal was put on hold by GM because they were unhappy about some asset sales by FIAT which was not in line with the agreement.

Subsequently things changed and FIAT developed new engines, introduced new cars, went on to buy 20% stake in Chrysler. GM got into trouble and FIAT even considered buying European Operations of GM. FIAT hiked their stake in Chrysler further to 53.5 % in 2010.

So FIAT is trying and they have Ambitions to become a big global player.

Knee jerk reactions and wrong strategies cannot get them anywhere.

They have shown weakness by withholding the launch of their "world car" (Palio) in I998 in India fearing that they don't have any chance against the to be launched Indica.

Later they cried foul that styling of Indica and their world car is similar (Styling of both these cars were done at I.D.E.A of Italy)

They don't have an existance in India without TATA Motors.

FIAT India Automobiles Ltd is a 50-50 joint venture with TATA Motors.

(FIAT India Automobiles has a manufacturing plant in Pune which manufactures FIAT Cars, TATA Cars and Engines for FIAT and TATA. This joint venture with TATA has an agreement with Maruti to supply diesel engines to Maruti.

As per FIAT press release, the seperation with TATA Motors is only in commercial - Sales, Service and Marketing areas.

They need to speed up their actions and also introduce new models.

{I could not find any difference in fit and finish of Linea and a Manza facing close to each other in a showroom near our place. Interiors of Manza was infact better. There was not much difference in ride quality during a City drive. That special by now famous "thud" closing of door - I don't know why I could not find much difference. So how we expect Sales figures of Linea to go up when both are sold at the same show room with a huge price difference}

Just came to know that one more person has completed a successful Bangalore - Ladakh expedition in his beloved LINEA! More than 1 have achieved this feat in a FIAT! Another person whom I know has driven his Punto all the way from Noida till Kanyakumari without a fuss! This shows the capabilities of these amazing machines! PERIOD!

Even a Nano went to Ladakh and travelled across the country 26000 km with out any issues.

i was speaking to a friend who has a linea petrol at his residence in cochin.

he says FIAT name has become a taboo in the indian market,their name was ruined by PAL, and then Tata.

Dear Superbad,

Just because your friend is having a Petrol Linea, he need not be an expert in brand image and and brand value.

Please see the details about TATA- FIAT JV.


Dear Gurrala74,

It seems you mis understood Jayadev's post.
He says that Etios/Liva interiors are good for some people based on its Sales figures. People are buying Etios and they are living with it and most of them are happy and defend Toyota.

Cheap Interior quality, cost cutting, doing away with bare minimum parts like gaskets, insulation, poor sheet thickness, not so good build quality and taking Indian Customers for granted - all these go to hell. They are selling and they are selling a lot.