Audio System Upgrade on Hyundai Verna Fluidic

Niku · Jun 22, 2015

Then you should return the components. Getting basic components would suffice the need for now, if powered with an amplifier. DRIVEN is a known shop, with good reviews. You should visit the shop and talk to the owner. The owner may also help you in building a custom box for your subwoofer.

For the amplifier settings, post a picture of your settings side of both the amplifiers, I will guide you. It would be better if you install the subwoofer first and then tweak the settings.

And, I meant redoing the installation only with the same equipment. Don't go for new equipment if they aren't giving any problems. Now since your subwoofer will be shipped soon, are you still searching for the Pioneer option?

Regards,
Nikunj

allhyundaicars · Jun 23, 2015

Niku said:

Yeah i will first wait for the woofer to arrive. And yes will ask him to do the wiring according to him if he doesn't understand [:D]

I just sat in my friend's car having a pioneer stereo and a hertz amp with 4 mac audio speakers and now i think the moron installer has kept the amplifier settings to the highest because in his car the sound was comparable to my verna's 10/30 sound level.

Will update the thread after receiving the subwoofer. And no won't go for the pioneer. But will ask the price just for information.

Niku · Jun 23, 2015

allhyundaicars said:

Yes, the installer might have messed up with the settings. In local shops, the installer is keen on making the music as loud and noisy as it can be. The installer won't have knowledge about gain, LPF, HPF, bass boost, treble boost settings and would tune all of them to the highest; resulting in more noise and less music. This is because of people's mentality of showing off the bass in their cars. It is a common sight to see the owner standing far away from the car and asking the installer to raise the volume, and if he can feel the bass from that distance, he would give a thumbs up. Similarly, many owners here don't go for damping. They are of the opinion that they've spent money to let the music be heard outside the car. When you visit a local ICE dealer in Faridabad and ask for cost of damping sheets, he is like [roll]

.

Do you find no improvement in sound/bass levels after a certain volume? Because in cars with badly tweaked amp settings, (suppose your Verna) you'll be getting maximum bass at 12-15 volume and when you increase it further you will only hear more noise (sharp vocals) and the bass would be EXACTLY the same (say till 25 volume). And after that, no matter how much you play with the volume knob, there would be no change in the output.

This is because the amp has been tweaked to power the speakers that way. The speakers would be performing at their limits at low volumes also. This gives some owners the impression that if the setup is so loud at 15 volume, imagine what would happen at full volume! In a properly tuned amp, you will hear the vocals and bass increase/decrease progressively till the sane limit of the HU. See if you can change the settings yourself and adjust them to : LPF - 50 Hz, HPF - 80 Hz and set the bass boost, treble boost, etc. to Zero. Fully lower the gain and increase it till you find that the sound is balanced and enough for the given volume.

PS. I know that was not the correct way to tune. But, for some time till the subwoofer is installed, it would be better for the setup (than say, 80Hz LPF, 140Hz HPF, +12db Bass boost, +12db Treble boost and maximum gain).

Regards,
Nikunj

allhyundaicars · Jun 23, 2015

That's exactly what's happening. The vocals are so high that's why i told you that i will have to downgrade.

Guess it's just the settings. Is it possible to have the different settings for the left and the right speakers ? Because i feel the bass from the left speakers are high and the front left jbl spesker is creating problem.

Anyways. Getting irritated with snapdeal. Why did i make a card payment [frustration]

and i didn't even get that 10% dicount deal :p

I got a message that they have changed the seller since the seller i selected didn't have it. That's alrite.

Today got the message that it's a mumbai based seller and what not just see the attatchment.

I sent an email to cancel my order and they say order has already been processed and can't stop the shipment now and asked me to refuse the delivery.

Are they insnae ? They will ship the product from mumbai to delhi only to be taken back.

I searched a little bit and found that it's mentioned " cancel order anytime before shipping" i sent an email attatching the pic , got a call back and she said the same thing , we'll try but if you get the shipment refuse it.

Also check reply number 824 for the amplifier settings.

Found a dealer in delhi frok blaupunkt representative. He has sony , blaupunkt and pioneer available. [:D]

will go tomorrow to get it installed and hopefully his guys know how to get the settings right and save me a trip to driven.

Niku · Jun 23, 2015

What? They will ship the product to Delhi from Mumbai only to get it returned. I can imagine the look the courier person would give you for taking the package back! [lol]

If you can get contact details of the seller, tell him that you want to cancel the order. I think this would save the hassle of shipping the product, assuming that it hasn't been shipped already.

Regarding the amp settings, two components (1 pair) are powered by a set of channels and you would be having common settings for channel 1 & 2 (likewise, 3 & 4 also). Channel 1 & 2 would be connected to the front JBL components (Left and Right) and 3 & 4 would be connected to MAC components (Left and Right). If you want to have different settings for left and right, you will have to connect left side of both components to Channel 1 & 2 and right side to 3 & 4. An easier option is to adjust the FADER on the HU. [:)]

Let the amp connection be like Channel 1 & 2 for front and 3 & 4 for rear as this is the way people prefer to tune the soundstage.

Tune the GXA644SI as follows for now, till you get the subwoofer installed:

High Pass : On @ 80Hz
Input Mode : 4 Channel
Level : Depending on the output you want from the JBL Comps (Start from the '4' mark and turn slowly)

Now the settings for 3 & 4 channel have been given basically for a subwoofer (due to the presence of X-over, Bass boost, etc.). But, since you are having components at the rear, tune it as follows:

X-over : HP
Frequency : ~80 Hz (try calculating from 32 Hz point. Should be around 1/4th mark I guess)
Bass Boost : Off
Level : Same as described above. Depending on the output you want at a particular volume

Waiting for your experience at the dealer in Delhi. Is it in the Karol Bagh area?

allhyundaicars · Jun 23, 2015

The product has been shipped. I will refuse the snapdeal order and get it tomorrow. The shop is in rohini. For the same blaupunkt subwoofer he quoted 4500 , will try to negotiate.

He told me to go for sony subwoofer ? I will test pioneer , blaupunkt and sony. Will decide on my liking.

The email i got mentions a seller and when i went back to product page there is no seller with that name [surprise]

On the 2nd day when the guy said work is complete i just tried some settings only to know that he did an idiotic thing.

When selecting the right speakers fomr the hu, one front left and one rear right speaker was working

Asked him to do the setting. He took 30 minutes for this. He again said all work done and after a minute found out the steering controls are not working. He said done after opening the hu and inserting a wire.

Started the car only to find out that the seat belt was jammed [frustration]

he opened the plastic and fixed that. All done saarji.

Then i checked once again and the left rear tweeter was not working , asked him to check. He opened the plastic case. All done.

I just checked the seat belt of that side and it was jammed. He opened it once again and fixed it.

You can imagine how frustarted i was at that time.

And one more thing i just remembered. The guy told me that When i select fader to the front all the speakers will work and the bass tube will turn off ? And if i select the fader at rear only the bass tube will work,is this how it's supposed to be ?

Thanks for letting me know the settings. Will confirm this when he tries to do the setting tomorrow. Will take a pic of the setting as well.

allhyundaicars · Jun 23, 2015

I sat at the rear to compare the rear speakers. And i am sure now that left side speakers indeed are louder compared to the right.

The sound level as well as the bass effect on the plastic cover and the door handle is more on the left side.

Do you think he messed up the high input wires? I still don't know how left side speakers are louder than the right.

Check the settings of the amp. i didn't change anything.

saroya · Jun 24, 2015

I am sure your installer is dumb guy. Difference of sound between left and right means he has connected speaker wires(high level) wrongly. May be front wires are connected to left side and rear to right or vice versa . Simply check the connections using fader on your HU. Increse the front input and check if the front speakers are getting louder or not.
BTW why hight input ? You don't have pre out in your HU?

Niku · Jun 24, 2015

allhyundaicars said:

Yes, it is like this in my car. But, I have a single amp and that is understood. I think your basstube should not work when FADER is adjusted to Front, as the FADER is on the HU and not only the Amp. Other people can confirm.

Don't go for Sony. You will notice that although it has better max power rating (around 1800W max), the JBL 1200w would perform 3 times better than this. Pioneer should be your first preference, followed by Blaupunkt and at last, Sony. Check that the subwoofer is genuine and original, as there are many Pioneer fakes doing rounds in the markets. Look out for any awkward words like "High Power", "Bass Power", "Hi-Performance" on the speaker. Check the underside of the woofer to confirm that the Pioneer logo is genuine. Also look for some stupid words on the subwoofer box (package). It would be best if you can get the sub connected to the car and then audition. [:)]

Your installer is dumb! I think he has done the "jhol jugaad" in your car. I suggest you to get the entire thing rechecked and reinstalled properly at the subwoofer dealer, to eliminate future problems. He must have connected left speakers (front and rear) to one pair of channels (1 & 2 with common settings) and right ones to the other pair of channels. You can check this with your HU's FADER.

allhyundaicars said:

He has done the wrong wiring, since you feel that left side is overpowering even after flat settings on the HU. The amp should be set in such a way that front and rear stage can be adjusted, i.e. front is overpowering or rear is overpowering and not right and left. Try changing the speaker wires (going from the amp) and inter changing the 3rd channel wire with the 2nd. And don't mess with the mono amp till you install the sub, it would have no effect now.

saroya said:

I don't think OEM's HU would have a pre out. And you are right on the wiring part.

Regards,
Nikunj

saroya · Jun 24, 2015

yes but it will not stop completely ,unless you set the fader to front speakers completely. it will work according to your fader setting, but you can set the gain according to your needs to compensate the loss due to fader setting.

allhyundaicars · Jun 25, 2015

i went to the shop and got the blaupunkt 1200 SC for 4500 rs [:D]

i liked the bass. and i even checked the sony but i didn't find much difference and it costed 1k more. avoided the pioneer because it was a ported type. would have gone for pioneer in case i couldn't find the blaupunkt.

so after installing the woofer i told him to check the left speaker which was creating noise. i interchanged the front JBL speakers and both of them were creating the noise.
got to know that 2 channels give more output than the other 2 ? is that correct guys ?

saroya said:

now what should i do ? will this create problems in the speakers , the extra output ?
when i increase the front output the front speakers tend to go loud. will confirm once more.
read more below.

Niku said:

this installer told me that the guy has done settings according to him. he said he didn;t use the company wires for the speakers and added the new speaker wires.
i interchanged the JBL speakers and both of them were working like that on the left side. so that means the speakers are good.
after this he suggested me to get a convertor fit and then check if the sound decreases or not. at this time i knew about the high output of 2 channels compared to the other 2 so asked him to go ahead.

he showed me a kenwood connector and quoted 1200 rs but thank god i asked him before hand what will happen if it didn't work. he said he'll take it back.

because of the different setup the connector could only be fitted at the rear where the amplifier was because behind the HU wires setting was different.
he installed it but the noise didn't go away.

then he did a jugaad :P he connected all the speakers to just 2 channels (low output) and showed me because of the converotor problem is solved. i told him i will get the same sound if you connect all the 4 speakers with the 2 channels( low ouput ) without the converter as well.

i told him to remove the converter and make the settings like before with high input settings.

i even told him to open the doors and do installation like you do but he said it's working fine there's no need. if wires were creating problems then they would have. also the owner was pushing me to get more speaker wires but i knew the already installed speaker wires could be used.

anyways. now what should i do :P
1. play 4 speakers from just the 2 channels having lower output than the other 2 channels ?
2. i understood you guys said that the overpowering should be either the front 2 speakers or the rear 2 speakers right ? but if i change the wires setting in order to do so then i think the left and right balance wouldn't work. again the installer messed up the wire settings behind the head unit ?
3. leave it as it is but would that create problems in the speakers ?

the mac audio speakers at the rear were not creating any problems so now i am thinking to put those speakers to the 2 channels having higher output ?

Niku · Jun 25, 2015

allhyundaicars said:

Firstly, congrats for the subwoofer. Do post some pictures of it. [:D]

Now you just do one thing. The equipment you have is more than enough for a good music experience in car. You just need to put it up properly to enjoy the experience.

Set the HU settings to FLAT. Next, try identifying the individual wires (+ and -) for each speaker, by removing all and connecting 2 wires at a time to know which wire belongs to which speaker. Connect them as follows:

(on the GXA644SI)
Channel 1 - Front Left
Channel 2 - Front Right
Channel 3 - Rear Left
Channel 4 - Rear Right

Adjust the settings on this amp as I had told you earlier. On the mono amp, add the subwoofer wires and set the bass boost to 0. LPF should be 50 Hz or lower (lower would give tighter bass notes only, while higher would give more droning bass lines). Gain/Level can be adjusted afterward. For the time being, set all the level/gain settings at one fourth level, i.e. one fourth rotation from the '4' mark.

Do tell if the above setting works fine. And what you experience now.

PS. For the answers to your questions, the speakers don't give problems if more current is fed into them. Problem of low performance is only when you give lesser power to them. The way this installer has done, the speakers would be getting half the power or the speaker channels of the amp are being overloaded. Left and right would still work, in any case, as with FADER, you would be having BAL/Balance settings on the HU to select left or right bias. And, there is nothing like higher power on two channels. The gain settings (common for channel 1,2 and 3,4) vary the power to the channels. Set the gain to an equal level first and then decide. These jhol jugaads don't work in ICE in the long run, unless tried and tested over time. Try to keep the setup as simple as possible. BTW I suspect one of your amplifier channels to be kaput. [roll]

Regards,
Nikunj

allhyundaicars · Jun 25, 2015

i asked him if the amp was the culprit but he said the setting's like this only and the amp is working fine.

so you mean all the 4 channels should have equal output ? if one of the channel was bad then why 2 of the left speakers were sounding loud ? in the picture above where all the 4 speakers are connected to the 2 channels, he told me company makes it like that but they don't give any settings to increase or decrease the output. normally 2 channels are for speakers and 2 for subwoofer ?

Niku · Jun 25, 2015

allhyundaicars said:

I am not sure, I just presume that one of the channel is having some problem. Not because of the difference in loudness, but because there was some noise (in the JBL Comp) on one channel and when the connection was removed from there (and shifted to the other channel), the setup was fine. I may be wrong though.

Regarding the settings, the amp is not set like that my dear (if you are talking about the channels and not the amp settings). Channel 1 and 2 are connected to the front speakers and 3 & 4 are for the rear speakers. The JBL amp (644SI) mentions on the settings side (near the input points), front and rear and NOT left and right. So, the stage has to be set front biased or rear biased according to the amp.

All 4 channels (NOT should have) do have equal outputs (like 55Wx4, 65Wx4 for eg.). The gain/level settings that you have on the amp decide the power going to the components attached to the respective channel. Normally, rear 2 channels are for subwoofer (to be used in bridged mode) but you can use speakers also. That is why you have the variable switch of HP-LP-Flat and frequency of 32-320Hz to play with.

To explain better, let:
Front Left = FL
Front Right = FR
Rear Left = RL
Rear Right = RR

You are facing this problem (that 2 right or 2 left are overpowering) because your setup is like this:

When you adjust the common gain settings of Channel 1 and 2, output of one front and one rear speaker would be changed.

While it should be like this:

When you adjust the common gain setting of Channel 1 and 2, output of 2 front or 2 rear speakers would be changed. This is the ideal condition.

Now in your case, when you increase/decrease the gain/level for one pair of channel on the amp, you end up changing the output of FL and RL or FR and RR. It should be that FL and FR or RL and RR should change while adjusting gain for one set of channels. Hope you got it. [:)]

Then only I will explain the next step (for setting the amp correctly)!

PS. Excuse for the poor representation (esp. of subwoofer) on MS Paint. [lol]

Regards,
Nikunj

allhyundaicars · Jun 25, 2015

first of all thank u niku and saroya for all the help [thumbsup]

no i didn't change the amplifier settings , i asked them to open the doors and interchange the speakers. ie i took the FR speaker and installed in FL. so now do you think the amp is fine ?
i don't think there;s any problem in settings at the amp. he messed up the wiring behind the HU.

so when the first installer was done with the setup , front and rear speakers connection to the amp should be like what you said.
at channel 1 and 2 both front speakers and at channel 3 and channel 4 the rear speakers.

but then when i selected the balance to the left , one left and one right was working so he changed it.
channel 1 front left , channel 2 rear left just like your image ( thanks for taking the time :P )

when i asked the subwoofer guy to make everything as before he also made the same mistake or i should say he did it correctly but the wires behind the HU is to be blamed.

and saroya , i did check the fader settings , when i make the setting to the front , weirdly now the right speakers are more powerful [lol]

now channel 1 is FR , channel 2 is RR. and when i keep the balance as L5 , all the 4 speakers have same output.
i will get it fixed after my exams or maybe in 2 days. the same friend just told me he's getting his car done from driven. he's making his promotion car so will go along :P

anyways now i hope you understood everything now.

the pic of the subwoofer. when i opened the boot , the wooden plank on which amps are fixed was lying on the subwoofer. [anger]

Audio System Upgrade on Hyundai Verna Fluidic

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