The C-Segment Sedan: 2017 Sales Report


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Akash1886

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Re: The C-Segment Sedan: 2017 Report

rkiefpm said:
The 1.5 diesel from Ciaz could be a game changer. It will be priced competitively and should get cruise control as well in the facelift. If this were a betting game for 2018, I would put my money on Ciaz emerging as winner
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Buddy, I'll put my money on the new Engine of CIAZ only once the feedback from the market/buyers is in place. Agreed that it would be a MSIL product but after seeing the Celerio Diesel's demise which had an in house engine, I have my reservations for that. I am not at all doubting their existing petrol engines as I myself had a 1.3L Petrol Esteem for a decade but for me the new engines have to prove their worth.

But you don't buy only the engine - you buy a car and the experience
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The engine is heart of any car / vehicle. Will it be justified to buy a car simply because of a brand's name? If the car has a mediocre engine then would anyone still invest their money on it simply because of aesthetic and comfort features? I guess, engine's performance and reliability does play a major role in developing an all round experience for the owner and future buyers.

I would suggest MSIL should test their new engines further just like TML did for the 1.2L Revotron and the Revotorq before they were introduced in the Tiago and other cars. I myself own a Tigor 1.2L and my experience with the initial 5K Kms has been very positive and I also own a 1.5L Ivtec which has done 70K+ kms in 6 years and hasn't had a single issue. I also owned a 1.3L Esteem for a decade and that engine was at 1.85 Lac kms when I sold it in March 2017. If MSIL's these new engines can provide this type of reliability, I feel, they can surely further strengthen their position.

Regards

Akash
 
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vijay_968

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Re: The C-Segment Sedan: 2017 Report

Sale of Hatchbacks and Sedans in India is showing a marked SHIFT towards PETROL Fuel. The percentage of diesel cars sold in India has reduced from 47% (in 2012-13) to a mere 27%, in 2016-17 (link1 and link2). Maruti, Hyundai, Honda all are affected by this. Link2 says, "The trend is only going to get stronger, say company executives who are now preparing for a life beyond diesel". It is going to be interesting. Assuming the way forward is Petrol Fuel, I have two intriguing questions :

  1. In a Country where the inevitable question is always on FE, will C-Segment march towards typical Performance or the hatchback type "FE or bust" ?
  2. Someone might have a brilliant idea for generating more revenue (as "normal revenue is not easily coming"). All Petrol engines above 1.0 Liter (NA or Turbo) can be termed "Luxury". Higher Road Tax and higher Annual Insurance will be levied. [roll] Ex-show room price of Rs 7.49 Lakhs + Rs. 3 Lakhs for Registration plus Rs 1.5 Lakhs for Insurance ---- WHAT ??? Only rich people buy Cars ? No ???
 
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Re: The C-Segment Sedan: 2017 Report

vijay_968 said:
Sale of Hatchbacks and Sedans in India is showing a marked SHIFT towards PETROL Fuel. The percentage of diesel cars sold in India has reduced from 47% (in 2012-13) to a mere 27%, in 2016-17 (link1 and link2). Maruti, Hyundai, Honda all are affected by this. Link2 says, "The trend is only going to get stronger, say company executives who are now preparing for a life beyond diesel". It is going to be interesting. Assuming the way forward is Petrol Fuel, I have two intriguing questions :

  1. In a Country where the inevitable question is always on FE, will C-Segment march towards typical Performance or the hatchback type "FE or bust" ?
  2. Someone might have a brilliant idea for generating more revenue (as "normal revenue is not easily coming"). All Petrol engines above 1.0 Liter (NA or Turbo) can be termed "Luxury". Higher Road Tax and higher Annual Insurance will be levied. [roll] Ex-show room price of Rs 7.49 Lakhs + Rs. 3 Lakhs for Registration plus Rs 1.5 Lakhs for Insurance ---- WHAT ??? Only rich people buy Cars ? No ???
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Over the years, CRDi diesels are at-least as reliable as naturally aspirated petrols and are way better to drive. The rate of innovation on diesel engines has exceeded that of petrols. Currently there is a price difference of around 1.5 to 2 lakhs for diesels. I bought the Verna CRDi SX(O) for 16.04 lakhs INR while the petrol was cheaper by ~1.7 lakhs at 14.37 Lakhs INR. Once the BS VI emission norms come in, diesel will be expensive by ~3.5 lakhs. So to your first question, the diesel sales will fall further after 2020 as only performance freaks will buy diesel. What will I buy in 2020? - A diesel definitely! But many will shy away as buying diesels post 2020 will be very expensive affair. To meet BS 6 norms they need to include DPF and other items that will increase cost difference by a multiple of 2 (from 1.7 lakhs - 2 lakhs to 3.5 to 4 lakhs)

So the resale value of current diesels post 2020 should be very good
 
#19
acechip

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Re: The C-Segment Sedan: 2017 Report

It would be unwise for Maruti to get a new diesel unit in any of its cars at this stage, where the shift is decisively in favour of petrol engines.They should look at getting a more powerful petrol engine for the Ciaz from their line up, or use the Boosterjet from the Baleno.
 
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Re: The C-Segment Sedan: 2017 Report

acechip said:
It would be unwise for Maruti to get a new diesel unit in any of its cars at this stage, where the shift is decisively in favour of petrol engines.They should look at getting a more powerful petrol engine for the Ciaz from their line up, or use the Boosterjet from the Baleno.
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Yeah I think they should strike a deal with FCA for 1.3,1.6,2.0 MJD instead of in-house else they will be stuck with crude diesels like in Tata,Mahindra lineup
For petrol, they simply need K-Series + Turbo as options
Same goes for Honda
These two-MSIL and Honda have mastered petrols and MSIL has mastered tuning and using 1.3 MJD. They should continue that trend

MSIL can also use the Toyota partnership I guess for 1.4 D4D

Off late Hyundai and Ford have nailed pricing , features etc in their lineup, very few changes needed here
 
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acechip

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Re: The C-Segment Sedan: 2017 Report

kkn13 said:
Yeah I think they should strike a deal with FCA for 1.3,1.6,2.0 MJD instead of in-house else they will be stuck with crude diesels like in Tata,Mahindra lineup
For petrol, they simply need K-Series + Turbo as options
Same goes for Honda
These two-MSIL and Honda have mastered petrols and MSIL has mastered tuning and using 1.3 MJD. They should continue that trend

MSIL can also use the Toyota partnership I guess for 1.4 D4D

Off late Hyundai and Ford have nailed pricing , features etc in their lineup, very few changes needed here
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A little OT, but crude diesels like Tata/Mahindra? I dont think the Varicor/MHawk are "crude" at all, certainly not in their flagship bodies like Hexa or XUV. The Honda iDTEC- now thats crude from start to stop and throughout the rev-bands in between.
 
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Re: The C-Segment Sedan: 2017 Report

acechip said:
A little OT, but crude diesels like Tata/Mahindra? I dont think the Varicor/MHawk are "crude" at all, certainly not in their flagship bodies like Hexa or XUV. The Honda iDTEC- now thats crude from start to stop and throughout the rev-bands in between.
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Arguably all 3 are very crude compared to the competition
Having owned Scorpio before and my brother owns XUV , I pretty much have an idea
My brother's daily car - Brezza is more refined

Have taken TD of Hexa and Nexon a few times too, though Nexon was a bit better than Ecosport in terms of engine noise

Nowhere near Hyundai diesel levels of refinement 100%
 
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Re: The C-Segment Sedan: 2017 Report

rkiefpm said:
I can totally second that. I had driven a Multijet diesel of Maruti Ritz for 5 years and moved away from chosing Ciaz because I did not want to drive the same engine again for few more years. Hyundai definitely has the best diesel engine among sedans today. If Ciaz had a 1.5 diesel, I would have gone for it

The 1.5 diesel from Ciaz could be a game changer. It will be priced competitively and should get cruise control as well in the facelift. If this were a betting game for 2018, I would put my money on Ciaz emerging as winner

There is no doubt about the capability of the Hyundai diesels. They are best in class in India today. But you don't buy only the engine - you buy a car and the experience
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Yeah 1.3 MJD is a fine engine for smaller cars like Ignis, Ritz, Swift, Baleno and even Vitara Brezza but falls short in Ciaz, Ertiga, S Cross

We ve owned 5 cars with the 1.3 MJD (1 Swift, 3 Ritz <<--- sold and currently my brother has Vitara Brezza)

That said, its no slouch and is a fine engine and Maruti has tuned it perfectly
I heard 1.6 MJD is the inspiration for upcoming 1.5 DDIS, Im hoping its true

I hope 1.3 MJD gets a BS VI variant too

I dont understand the hype for newer engines, most of them are noisy and have displacement replaced with a turbo and plonked on heavy cars

1.5 IVTEC, 1.6 CRDI, 1.4 CRDI, 1.3 MJD, 1.6 MJD, of course the 1.5 K9K and Ford 1.5 D are great bang for buck engines which are reliable, good performance and maintenance
 
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