The C-Segment Sedan: 2017 Sales Report

[vm2011]

Honda gets back its crown in the C segment(Sedan). Honda City fights it out with Maruti Suzuki's Ciaz and wins by a margin of 606 cars

Surprise is Hyundai's Verna though started off well, seems to be in a downward slide if December figures reveal a story?

the segment has got very interesting – It combined contributed to 1,72,620 units in 2017 and contributed over 5% of overall passenger cars sales! Also interesting is the fact that the Top-2 sellers (City+Ciaz) contributed over 72% of the sales in the segment

Source:Auto Punditz

 

[Akash1886]

Re: Sedan C segment - 2017 report

Surprisingly the Vento is going down quite sharp which I believe isn't expected of a capable product. It's close cousin the Rapid still is managing better to survive in comparison. I think the need is there to probably launch an all new Vento which doesn't look inspired from the Polo.

Regards

Akash

 

[rkiefpm]

Re: Sedan C segment - 2017 report

Honda gets back its crown in the C segment(Sedan). Honda City fights it out with Maruti Suzuki's Ciaz and wins by a margin of 606 cars

Surprise is Hyundai's Verna though started off well, seems to be in a downward slide if December figures reveal a story?



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Source:Auto Punditz

Not a surprise. Hyundai Verna started off as the segment leader in 2011. There was no Ciaz and City did not have a diesel engine. The City diesel helped City get the crown back and Ciaz launch annihilated the Verna.
The new Verna 2017 is a great car. I own it and like the features and the awesome engine but the Hyundai after sales and spares are terrible. The spares are not available and a look at the social media twitter handle of Hyundai reveals how they have totally lost it in their supply chain

Following are clear disadvantages of Verna 2017 Next-gen vs. Ciaz and Honda City:
1. Verna has a 1.6 engine which increases cost of ownership vs. a 1.5 diesel that the Honda City has and Ciaz will get. Cost of ownership in registration and insurance costs over time. This also reduces the price competitiveness leverage that Hyundai gets
2. Expect the Ciaz to add cruise control and other features (ventilated seats and sunroof are a waste in my opinion). Ciaz does that by undercutting Verna by 2-3 lakhs
3. Handling of old Verna was terrible and shameful for the engine that it had. The new Verna is much better and improved. So the numbers should not get as bad as old Verna but again it is never going to be a driver's car like the Vento or Rapid
4. Owning a car is not buying a list of features and a great engine. Hyundai should learn that it should work on the overall experience of the customers
5. Hyundai sells cars using great feature list and engine and marketing awards like iCOTY (how come nobody is voting for it on The Automotive India contest but the journos at iCOTY found it to be the winner?). The ASS and spares are terrible - Spares are distributed by Mobis, a separate company. So even if they have it in stock in factory, they cannot ship it to customers as Mobis is a separate company

With the Ciaz expected to add a powerful diesel 1.5 engine, Verna (it already is in 3rd spot in December) will eventually fight for 3rd spot with Vento and Rapid.

 

[vm2011]

Re: Sedan C segment - 2017 report

Surprisingly the Vento is going down quite sharp which I believe isn't expected of a capable product. It's close cousin the Rapid still is managing better to survive in comparison. I think the need is there to probably launch an all new Vento which doesn't look inspired from the Polo.

VW has lost the plot in the C segment. The Ameo has pulled the remaining volumes of Vento brining it to 3 digit sales numbers.

NEW GEN cars from VW are not earlier than 2021, but that also will start with a Crossovers (> 4 and < 4m) followed by Polo and then the next gen Vento.

 

[Akash1886]

Re: Sedan C segment - 2017 report

VW has lost the plot in the C segment. The Ameo has pulled the remaining volumes of Vento brining it to 3 digit sales numbers.

I believe the Diesel AMEO has possibly cannibalized the sales of Diesel Vento to a good extent which is evident from the above numbers.

NEW GEN cars from VW are not earlier than 2021, but that also will start with a Crossovers (> 4 and < 4m) followed by Polo and then the next gen Vento.

A serious re-work is needed for the VW strategy with regards to Indian market. They should actually pre-pone their product launches w.r.t India by atleast 2 years i.e start bringing them by 2019 onward.

Regards

Akash

 

[InsaneTurbo]

Re: Sedan C segment - 2017 report

Despite the competition from other segments esp crossovers this particular segment is doing well for the time being !
Hatsoff to Honda and the City for safeguarding their turf with updates !

The figures for the City, Ciaz and the Verna from August 2017 stands like this :

City : 23594
Ciaz : 22558
Verna : 21238

Verna's December despatches are pretty lower , 2018 initial months will give us a clearer picture ! I'm surprised at Rapid figures , thumbs up Skoda ! Vento numbers are being stolen by Ameo !

 

[adivik]

Re: Sedan C segment - 2017 report

I believe that with customers these days demanding January manufactured cars, a lot of car models except a few like Baleno, Brezza, Dzire, I20, Creta are going to see a big dip in volumes of whole sale dispatches in Dec 17 with Sales rebounding in Jan 18. It is like Jun 17 and Jul 17 Sales with GST effect.

The main reason for this is the 2nd hand market dealers who started bargaining based on date of manufacture of vehicles.

 

[DrRishabh]

Re: Sedan C segment - 2017 report

Honda city has not seen a rival like Maruti Ciaz in its history. Don't remember any other cars in any segment involved in such a fierce battle. With upcoming Ciaz facelift with powerful engines will make life of City and Verna worse. Surprisingly such a low number of Next gen verna. They are losing big in Space i think which a typical Midsize sedan customer wants. May be customers are spoiled by acres of space in ciaz and city. Lot of competition - our benefit.

 

[rkiefpm]

Re: Sedan C segment - 2017 report

Honda city has not seen a rival like Maruti Ciaz in its history. Don't remember any other cars in any segment involved in such a fierce battle. With upcoming Ciaz facelift with powerful engines will make life of City and Verna worse. Surprisingly such a low number of Next gen verna. They are losing big in Space i think which a typical Midsize sedan customer wants. May be customers are spoiled by acres of space in ciaz and city. Lot of competition - our benefit.

Totally agree with the fact that Ciaz almost toppled the Honda City. The main reasons for Verna lagging is the price competitiveness owing to the 1.6 L engines which increase tax & insurance making it difficult to price and the fact that Maruti ASS and spares are the best in the country. I have owned 2 Maruti (still have a Swift) and a Hyundai car and the Maruti spares are notches above Hyundai. So service, pricing and brand are the things that are winning the race. With a more powerful engine, it can topple the City. The only thing lacking in Ciaz is a competitive engine

 

[ankathil.arjun]

Re: The C-Segment Sedan: 2017 Report

The Vento in my opinion is losing sales to the Rapid, even though Rapid is not selling very high numbers either. When you compare the cars, the Rapid has been updated more often, and though mechanically similar, the sporty suspension of the Rapid is preferred by most enthusiasts.

With its regular updates and limited edition releases, the Rapid manages to remain in news more often and seems like a more happening product. No doubt, the Vento is also equally good, but with the Ameo coming and being sold along side, I think many customers are not very keen to go for the Vento.

Coming to the high sellers in the segment, the Japanese vs Korean competition has been always on in this segment. Verna had lost the race, with the earlier version, however, the facelift has boosted its sales to get it on par with the competition. They even topped the segment for a few months, but I think that was due to the customers who had kept their purchases on hold waiting for the new version.
Though its quite bad that Hyundai is facing supply chain issues with regards to parts, I do not think this is a reason for the lower sales in December. Most of the customers would never know about this issue till they buy the car, and would be buying the Verna purely for its reputation and updated looks/features.
The December sales are purely dependent on the offers given and they should not be taken as a market indicator.

 

[Akash1886]

Re: The C-Segment Sedan: 2017 Report

Totally agree with the fact that Ciaz almost toppled the Honda City. The main reasons for Verna lagging is the price competitiveness owing to the 1.6 L engines which increase tax & insurance making it difficult to price and the fact that Maruti ASS and spares are the best in the country. I have owned 2 Maruti (still have a Swift) and a Hyundai car and the Maruti spares are notches above Hyundai. So service, pricing and brand are the things that are winning the race. With a more powerful engine, it can topple the City. The only thing lacking in Ciaz is a competitive engine

CIAZ in comparison to CITY & Verna is a dated product with an old diesel engine which is present through out the MSIL line up of cars and a non-aggressive Petrol 1.4 L mill. CITY & Verna have been getting timely updates i.e cosmetic as well as technical so they are both much more contemporary products in that sense compared to CIAZ. Secondly, MSIL providing a new engines to CIAZ is a much needed move due to the competition raising the bar constantly. However, just by providing a bigger engine the game can't change for CIAZ as it would be equally important for the new engines to prove their worth.

I had written about this some months back on a separate thread on our forum. Just adding the same here

I just hope both these new 1.5 L engines are better in performance than the 1.5 Ivtec and Idtec of Honda. 1.5 L Ivtec of Honda is a gem so it requires great set of skills to develop an engine of same capacity with better / superior performance in petrol variants. 1.5 Idtec of Honda is not as refined and good so I hope, 1.5 Diesel of MSIL should be far better than that so that people genuinely accept this new diesel engine over the 1.5 Idtec.

For reference I would also like to add here, Diesel 1.5 Revotorq from TATA is also a new engine running in the Nexon and so far the people who have driven the Nexon Diesel or are owning the Diesel Nexon have not been complaining with regards to it's performance at large. Agreed the fact that MSIL has good hold in our market but with the competition increasing the new introductions from Maruti Suzuki will surely have to prove their worth in long run. Tata's Diesel Nexon with a new engine is doing the same thing i.e proving it's worth and same is the case with the Ford's Eco Sport 1.5 L Dragon.

Hence, now I feel that it is equally important for a product to perform in the market based on it's merits like mechanical & technical performance and reliability and not just rely on the support of the brand it is being offered from.

Also, as far as the new Verna is concerned, increase in the Taxation and ownership cost is not the whole sole reason for it's lower dispatches during a month. Being the year end many brands face such stats each year. Also, Hyundai's Diesel is still a better performer for me than a Honda's I-dtec. So, CIAZ's 1.5 Diesel not only has to compete with the I-Dtec but has to work hard to rise above the Hyundai's Diesel engines to sustain and further establish itself.

Regards

Akash

 

[vijay_968]

Re: The C-Segment Sedan: 2017 Report

CIAZ in comparison to CITY & Verna is a dated product with an old diesel engine which is present through out the MSIL line up of cars and a non-aggressive Petrol 1.4 L mill. CITY & Verna have been getting timely updates i.e cosmetic as well as technical so they are both much more contemporary products in that sense compared to CIAZ. Secondly, MSIL providing a new engines to CIAZ is a much needed move due to the competition raising the bar constantly. However, just by providing a bigger engine the game can't change for CIAZ as it would be equally important for the new engines to prove their worth.

I had written about this some months back on a separate thread on our forum. Just adding the same here



For reference I would also like to add here, Diesel 1.5 Revotorq from TATA is also a new engine running in the Nexon and so far the people who have driven the Nexon Diesel or are owning the Diesel Nexon have not been complaining with regards to it's performance at large. Agreed the fact that MSIL has good hold in our market but with the competition increasing the new introductions from Maruti Suzuki will surely have to prove their worth in long run. Tata's Diesel Nexon with a new engine is doing the same thing i.e proving it's worth and same is the case with the Ford's Eco Sport 1.5 L Dragon.

Hence, now I feel that it is equally important for a product to perform in the market based on it's merits like mechanical & technical performance and reliability and not just rely on the support of the brand it is being offered from.

Also, as far as the new Verna is concerned, increase in the Taxation and ownership cost is not the whole sole reason for it's lower dispatches during a month. Being the year end many brands face such stats each year. Also, Hyundai's Diesel is still a better performer for me than a Honda's I-dtec. So, CIAZ's 1.5 Diesel not only has to compete with the I-Dtec but has to work hard to rise above the Hyundai's Diesel engines to sustain and further establish itself.

Regards

Akash

Plus 1 on that (about increased cost due to a 1.6 lit engine).

Five years ago, I knew City had the best 1.5L Petrol engine and the best rear seat comfort. I also knew that the Registration and Insurance charges were more for a 1.6 Lit engine. Did it prevent me from getting a Verna ? No.

After all, what's the use of a Car, if there's no fun. My Verna helps me leave behind every other car on the road; the extra money I'm paying doesn't matter. AND, I don't need to invest Rs 17-18 lakhs for THAT performance !!!

City sales dipped in Nov-17, by 1000 numbers and regained to Oct-17 level (in Dec 17). Ciaz lost 1627 as compared to Nov-17. Verna lost 1798 as compared to Nov-17. I remember both City and Ciaz had December offers while Verna didn't have any. There's nothing to read about these lost of numbers except December factor.

OT : Can you believe that a self certified Maruti hater, Me, having recommended a Ciaz ? I did and a Senior Colleague bought one in Dec. Reason ? He will retire in 2 years. A spacious Sedan was his requirement. Performance is not important at his age. When I retire, I too might get a Ciaz; who knows.

 

[rkiefpm]

Re: The C-Segment Sedan: 2017 Report

Plus 1 on that (about increased cost due to a 1.6 lit engine).

Five years ago, I knew City had the best 1.5L Petrol engine and the best rear seat comfort. I also knew that the Registration and Insurance charges were more for a 1.6 Lit engine. Did it prevent me from getting a Verna ? No.

After all, what's the use of a Car, if there's no fun. My Verna helps me leave behind every other car on the road; the extra money I'm paying doesn't matter. AND, I don't need to invest Rs 17-18 lakhs for THAT performance !!!

City sales dipped in Nov-17, by 1000 numbers and regained to Oct-17 level (in Dec 17). Ciaz lost 1627 as compared to Nov-17. Verna lost 1798 as compared to Nov-17. I remember both City and Ciaz had December offers while Verna didn't have any. There's nothing to read about these lost of numbers except December factor.

OT : Can you believe that a self certified Maruti hater, Me, having recommended a Ciaz ? I did and a Senior Colleague bought one in Dec. Reason ? He will retire in 2 years. A spacious Sedan was his requirement. Performance is not important at his age. When I retire, I too might get a Ciaz; who knows.

I love the 1.6 diesel on the Hyundai Verna. It is just awesome and best in class. With the latest chassis, it is a beast!

I was saying that with a 1.5 diesel they can be more price competitive. With a 1.6 diesel, they incur higher taxes & insurance. If they re-engineer the 1.6 like VW did to a 1.5, the performance drop won't be dramatic and can help them be more price competitive to gather market share.

It is not true that Verna did not have offers in December. There were offers on 2017 cars that were unofficial - meaning no newspaper advertisements but you get if you ask. The Next Gen Verna 2017 group on facebook of which I am a member has the details. I bought mine in October 2017 and there were no offers then

 

[DrRishabh]

Re: The C-Segment Sedan: 2017 Report

I agree with all. A person who wants performance will not consider Ciaz. Except performance it is neck to neck. Now if it sells good with old 1.3 MJD, it will drill holes in competition with powerful engines and Maruti brand.

 

[rkiefpm]

Re: The C-Segment Sedan: 2017 Report

I agree with all. A person who wants performance will not consider Ciaz. Except performance it is neck to neck. Now if it sells good with old 1.3 MJD, it will drill holes in competition with powerful engines and Maruti brand.

I can totally second that. I had driven a Multijet diesel of Maruti Ritz for 5 years and moved away from chosing Ciaz because I did not want to drive the same engine again for few more years. Hyundai definitely has the best diesel engine among sedans today. If Ciaz had a 1.5 diesel, I would have gone for it

The 1.5 diesel from Ciaz could be a game changer. It will be priced competitively and should get cruise control as well in the facelift. If this were a betting game for 2018, I would put my money on Ciaz emerging as winner

There is no doubt about the capability of the Hyundai diesels. They are best in class in India today. But you don't buy only the engine - you buy a car and the experience