While I do agree that Japs are more experienced and matured and even agree that even if Indian manufacturers are given that leverage to overprice the cars, they may still not make quality cars like the Japs, I do feel Indian consumers do badmouth or criticize local manufacturers a lot more than they deserve
.
The bolded text in your post is my point .
Rest part are opinions which differ person to person which come sometimes from personal experience or observation or whatever reasons.
Lets take the XUV and Innova for example. XUV is a lot more advanced, has a much more powerful engine, is more refined, equally fuel efficient and has more features. Still the Innova is more expensive than the XUV. And it still sells. Naturally, to be competitive, M&M has to price their XUV below the Innova, which they did. And to do that inspite of all the extra features, they have to cut corners. That is what reflects in the overall quality of the vehicle. Still for that price, they offer us a very good package.
Here you yourself are showing us the process / strategy involved and adopted in making cars by mahindra . I.e load the car with features, but to be competetive cut corners .
which reflect overall quality and which has direct co-relation to overall reliability of the car .
Now coming to Raja's discussion on even if Indians are willing to pay a premium for Indian manufacturers, they still cant make a good car because they lack that experience.
They still can't make " RELIABLE " cars relatively compared to Japanese due to lack of expereince which the Japanese have for years is my point .
There is a difference between not making good cars and not making reliable cars .
The Bentley is a good car but not reliable .
Pls read my multiple posts quoted below in the end regarding this " reliability " part , Because your post is making a altogether different impression about my post which I have not meant or actually said .
![[:)]](https://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/images/smilies/Smile.gif "Smile [:)]")
You are free to prove what I said is wrong with regards to reliability .
Well, I partially believe that and partially dont. I believe that because I have seen one vehicle (Aria) which was priced at a premium but still was not very reliable
On the other hand, I have not seen too many examples of Indian products being offered for a premium to totally disregard the fact that Indians can make quality vehicles, but at a price.
Well we have 2 premium and flagship product offering from both tata and mahindra .
one like you said charged premium yet was not reliable and another one is xuv which in your own words cut corners w.r.t to quality to be competitive , which in return not proved to be reliable .
So it actually supports my point which iam trying to explain
tornado that indian car makers can't make reliable cars " at this moment " compared relatively to their japnese counter parts because
1) they don't know how to make one in spite of charging premium ( aria)
2) they cut corners w.r.t to quality to be competitive. ( xuv )
And This is what I have been saying exactly .
Can this be changed ? ofcourse it can be ,are both tata and mahindra taking effort ? ,hopefully yes , but then it will take time that is what iam saying since it does not come all of sudden it needs consistent practice of following certain rules which the japnese have been following for years and years which has given them a worldwide reputation of being reliable .
And like you said some bad mouth when it comes to indian brands , the ones who do bad mouth are generally the ones who are irritated because of the above reason . and some remain to be silent . Some belive that inspite of niggles they are getting great features so stay happy .
Below are my quoted posts so you and readers have a idea once again about what exactly iam saying regarding the subject of reliability of Indian and japnese cars .
And also they are quite old in this entire business of making cars relatively compared to tata and mahindra hence have a vast expreince in making cheap , mid level , high level and luxury level cars .
.
. The point tornado raised was that " tata and mahindra can make equally reliable cars if they charge premiuim like Toyota and Honda " .so my response was specific to that point .
and so my point is even if they charge , that reliability may not come ( at this moment atleast ) .
Saying Reliability will be offered by tata and mahindra if they get same premium like Toyota and Honda can be a expectation a wish but its not a guarantee.
It is a blend of expertise followed consistently for years in the process for making cars which has now become a part of their identity and culture .
Mahindra and tata will reach there eventually maybe very soon but at this moment they are not there . And if some 1 like our member suhas , ask us which SUV to buy xuv or storme it is important to make them very clear about the real picture becuase we don't know if they look for emotional attachment with car like you who is ok with niggles or want peace of mind . ( means no unplanned visits to a,s,s for solving niggles ) .
I personally at this very moment atleast will not buy a Innova over a xuv or storme but then its my personal thinking .
But while suggesting something to someone we need to put the facts were they stand today which in return can help them in making a informed decision , help them set reasonable expectations which will eventually lead them to have a better ownership experience of the car they choose .
Tornado its is not about money here pls understand . It is about the expertise of the very process required to make reliable cars which is there but not yet matured and it comes out of expreince .
All the problems which you have listed happened because the system is not matured yet . ( example if tata and mahindra have tested their cars for lakhs and lakhs of Kms across the length and breadth of India dint they knew brakes make screeching noise or are ineffective and doors of storme rattle because of hinges ? Or they did testing on premium spares and in the end provided poor spare parts ? )
There is a difference in trying to make a reliable car and actually make one ( applies to both tata and mahindra ). The japanse when relatively compared actualy make one and tata and mahindra try to make one .
If tata and mahindra follow this philosophies I do not know ? and even if they follow the Japanese will have a edge since they have been using this practice for many years hence will have a advantage and expreince in implementing them.
![[;)]](https://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/images/smilies/Wink.gif "Wink [;)]")
![[:D]](https://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/images/smilies/Big%20Smile.gif "Big Smile [:D]")
