My New Honda City in White - The Albus

Dr MUDHAN · Jun 17, 2020

@ ManasN95

No confusion. You should never compromise safety at any cost. The only best choice is to go for OEM Break Pads.
Please go through the following Pages / Links once again, I am sure, you will get the best guidance.
LINK 1
LINK 2
LINK 3
LINK 4

ManasN95 said:

Honestly, I am not for anything that affects the car dynamics which has been programmed by years of research. Increase in clearance will stiffened suspension , increase sway and roll. The increase might put strain on the overall suspension elements / shock absorbers.

No doubt, ROGERAB is the best Thermoplastic Urethane Buffer in India provided by Roger Motors. It has both advantages and disadvantages.

If you are keen, please follow the guidance given HERE

ManasN95 said:

Please follow bhvm thread: LED Headlight Conversion Bulbs For Cars & Bikes for head lights.

Please click the links mentioned in the first index page of this thread for Fogs, cabin and parking led lights.
I would say still these are the:
Best bulbs and suits well for parking, number plates and side indicators.
Best Cabin/Doom Lights
(Note, Shipping charges enormously increased due to pandemic impact.)

ManasN95 said:

Good, well prepared. [cheers]

Dr MUDHAN · Jun 17, 2020

Suryaputhra said:

Sure. I would be happy to get your opinion / guidance.

kuwaronline said:

Thanks for your good wishes. I will share soon my personal decision in detail towards replacement of tyres.

CRACING · Jun 17, 2020

These days its hard to find workers/labors who are meticulous; majority of them do sloppy work, be it in any field. It is the responsibility of the employer/SA to make sure everything is properly done but in your case, he is also hopeless!

Anyway, I'm glad to see the Albus back home and looking forward to tyres upgrade. I'm sure you'll do plenty of research and share with us. [:)]

ManasN95 · Jun 18, 2020

Dr MUDHAN said:

Thank You Dr Sir for your guidance.

As mentioned by you, I did already have a conversation with @CRACING regarding the brake pads just some replies before, and as he mentioned in his review, that Brembo pads he is using aren't performance but rather replacement brake pads, hence contemplating those. Yes OEM are a piece of mind, but an informed experiment is worth the money (As I am experiencing using a diesel engine mineral oil in my Honda CBR250R - super smooth running now)
The brake pads still have ~1000 KMs worth material left, which would equate to ~2 months according to my driving methods; being said I won't risk it and change them ASAP, and not wait 1000 KMs.

Same with ROGERAB, I will read as much as I can, the tires I got with the City are 2018 Yokohamas, hence don't want to experience stock specifications before jumping to the commonly advised 195 sections. (Would they increase the ground clearance?) (P.S: The Yokohama are only 1000 KMs old, hence as good as new.)
I have planned a long drive in November to Karnataka, and I will take a decision of ROGERAB before that; the tyre shop attendant suggested to get the bushes and suspension health checked as it is an 8 year old car and naturally it would have developed some sag over the years. Will do that too, my usage would be very frugal. I currently use the diagonal method over speed breakers, and it has scraped just once yet, but don't want to risk it under full load.

For the LEDs, I am contemplating going for Osram LED 2880CW-02B Parking Lamp (12V, 1W) for the parking, cabin, number plate and boot lights. They also offer red and yellow coloured LEDs so as to fit into brake and turn signals, will read about them more. Will research more about headlight LEDs and foglamp LEDs before switching them. Current setup is 100/90 with a Bosch relay until the rains subside, will take a decision after that. But I am sucker for white lights, they look crazy.
(Anybody using Philips Ultinon LEDs? I have a relative in US, would I get them cheaper there, and by how much?)

I am thinking of starting a new thread for my experience with the Honda City and also the Honda CBR250R separately!

CRACING · Jun 18, 2020

ManasN95 said:

As advised by Dr Mudhan, your first preference should be OEM brake pads and if there isn't huge price difference then go with OEM only. As second option I would suggest Brembo brake pads but other brands or cheap brake pads aren't advisable nor safe to use. I went with Brembo brake pads because I drive mostly within city limits but that doesn't mean they are unsafe for long drives or on highways. Also price difference was almost double with OEM brake pads.

First check with ASC,whether they are okay with installing aftermarket brake pads. If they say NO then get OEM brake pads and get it installed in ASC only. Replacing brake related parts from outside garage is risky because they use generic or inappropriate caliper pin lubricant which isn't a good idea and workmanship is doubtful.

nanu.007 · Jun 18, 2020

Dr MUDHAN said:

Thanks. Wish you the best.
Sorry for asking this out of topic question, I am confused whether to get the windshield replaced by taking insurance or by paying myself. Windshield experts quoted me 25k. Insurance is zero dep in 3rd year, ncb mentioned is 25% shouldn't it be 35% for 3 year? If I take insurance it will cost around 3500-4000 but ncb will become zero and next time premium will be more. If I don't take insurance then since very few companies offer zero dep after 3rd year so in comprehensive I will have to pay around 50-60% from my side and ncb will become zero. Please guide.

Dr MUDHAN · Jun 19, 2020

nanu.007 said:

BE WISE WHILE MAKING AN INSURANCE CLAIM

You are right. It's exactly like spending 1000 rupees to get 500 rupees benefit. Surely, not a wise approach sometimes and needs analysis.

Insurance Policies always have a basic general excess that means you have to bear that amount in each and every claim. Nil Dep policies will have one more excess in addition to that.

Example basic excess is 1000 and Additional excess is 2500 ,that means you have bear Rs.3500 in each and every claim.

Also, if you have a discount in premium in the next year by way of No claim bonus, say for example 20% that's Rs.2000, You must avoid claim anything below Rs.5500.

By doing this, you will continue to enjoy in future your bonus upto 50% of your premium, retain it ,also you can avail this benefit in case if you sell this car and buy a new car of same class of vehicle (Ex. Private Car, you sell a Brio and buy a Honda City, you get a 50% discount in the premium of your new car. Even if you're not buying a new car, you can hold this benefit for 3 years)

It's also in practice, the Motor Insurers abroad also honour the NCB earned in India and consider better discounts in their premium if we buy a car there.

If you make a claim, Your NCB becomes zero and you need to earn again step by step, will loose all the benefits that you earned over a period of time.

Therefore, it's better to make an analysis before making an Insurance claim. Don't forget to take into account the reduction in the value of the car every year and respective, relevant premium while analysing. Also, note, in your Windshield Claim if you make it, you need to bear the Excess part despite no depreciation applicable for glass part whether you have standard or Nil Dep policy.

It's a loss minimization measures adopted by all Insurance companies to avoid small claims and a win win effect for both Insurer and Insured.

nanu.007 said:

35% is after completing 3 years and what you will get in your next renewal, that is to be taken into account before making the claim.

Dr MUDHAN · Jun 19, 2020

@ ManasN95

It’s good know that you read a lot, get suggestions from others and you make your decision.

ManasN95 said:

Yes, I know that’s why I advised you to go through the discussion again for a better alternative in case you require, by denoting those links. I have lot of regards on CRACING as he never goes wrong. He does lot of research, experiments and shares his best like me. There is nothing wrong with Brembo brake pads but it’s very important that it should be fixed by the right hands as he reiterated and also it depends upon your driving habits as well.

ManasN95 said:

Hope, you noted this suggestion that’s there in that link:
‘However, with tons of experimentation, I have finally found the sweet spot. If you get the urethane buffers installed towards the top of the suspension spring rather than the middle, you will get the benefits of a raised vehicle while still maintaining the sweet soft suspension of your vehicle. Overall, worth it!! ‘

ManasN95 said:

Right.
I believe, you have ANHC 3rd Facelift 2012 model like me. This model has the GC 165 mm as against 160mm of other Third Gen ANHC. This GC 165 mm continues in later versions until now (I am yet to know for 2020 version officially)
Our Honda city cars have an amazing body balances overall. The165 mm of ground clearance is not at all a bad figure. The only problem is the improper mud flaps that often rubs over unscientifically deigned speed breakers that irritates us.
To increase GC , some preferred to fit taller rims ,tyres & spring buffers.
Honestly, IMO, our Honda City is a delicate car, designed for some specific purpose and road. The ride would be enjoyable with a small family of 2+2 on a good road, and if overloaded (more weight), the suspension will come down, both the proud owner and the car will never be happy. [frustration]

ManasN95 said:

Unfortunately, the situation is very bad now, we may not be liking or limitation may emerge for imports from China. It’s better to get whatever available within our country. Of course, most of them are old imports though designed in other countries, probably made in PRC and become expensive.

ManasN95 said:

Kindly note, you require a non-polar T10 very small bulbs for the side indicators as they need to perform dual function as both parking & side flashes in case you have Corporate or E versions of 2012 model. Don’t go for CANBUS Led type as they heat more and not long lasting. For Brake Lights carefully select the right bulb as indicated in this thread.

ManasN95 said:

Excellent, make it, we would be happy if we could learn something from you! [:D]

ravib · Jun 21, 2020

Hello Doctor,
Just went through your thread and it was disheartening to see the damage that happened to Albus. But with an owner as caring as you it is not surprising that Albus is back in action looking much better and stronger in a short period.

Yes Honda service does disappoint and lot of surveillance and nagging is required from our end. During early summer days of 2020 I noticed that Car's AC wasn't really effective. Since the car was serviced just couple of months back and AC Service was included I took the car back and complained to the service executive. They told me that they would keep the car at the service center overnight and inspect. I waited for a day and there was no response from the Service Center and I had to call back and follow up. The service executive said that it was his day off and he would ask another executive to check up and contact me. A while later the executive called back saying there is damage to the condenser and that is the likely cause for the AC not cooling. I asked them to wait and visited the service center to inspect the damage myself.

Its actually surprising how such damage can happen because there no other part bending under the condenser. So as suggested by others online it possibly happened due to a pebble hitting the condenser when the vehicle was at a considerable speed. I have paid advance for the spare part and have been waiting all during the lockdown. The service executive still claims the part hasn't arrived since logistics has taken a severe hit. Anyway since I haven't been commuting much due to corona I'm not considering nagging the service center for now, but I am slowly losing patience. Request others for their opinion on the damage and if anyone else has faced similar damage to their condenser ever.

Thank you. Stay Home. Stay Safe.

ManasN95 · Jun 21, 2020

ravib said:

Can anything be done about this (pebbles hitting the condenser or the radiator fins?)

Like I have installed a radiator guard on my CBR250R. Is the same available for cars, or is this very rare a case to be bothered very much about it?

Suryaputhra · Jun 21, 2020

ravib said:

Hello Doctor,
Just went through your thread and it was disheartening to see the damage that happened to Albus. But with an owner as caring as you it is not surprising that Albus is back in action looking much better and stronger in a short period.

Yes Honda service does disappoint and lot of surveillance and nagging is required from our end. During early summer days of 2020 I noticed that Car's AC wasn't really effective. Since the car was serviced just couple of months back and AC Service was included I took the car back and complained to the service executive. They told me that they would keep the car at the service center overnight and inspect. I waited for a day and there was no response from the Service Center and I had to call back and follow up. The service executive said that it was his day off and he would ask another executive to check up and contact me. A while later the executive called back saying there is damage to the condenser and that is the likely cause for the AC not cooling. I asked them to wait and visited the service center to inspect the damage myself.

View attachment 277753
Its actually surprising how such damage can happen because there no other part bending under the condenser. So as suggested by others online it possibly happened due to a pebble hitting the condenser when the vehicle was at a considerable speed. I have paid advance for the spare part and have been waiting all during the lockdown. The service executive still claims the part hasn't arrived since logistics has taken a severe hit. Anyway since I haven't been commuting much due to corona I'm not considering nagging the service center for now, but I am slowly losing patience. Request others for their opinion on the damage and if anyone else has faced similar damage to their condenser ever.

Thank you. Stay Home. Stay Safe.

What are the refrigerant pressures Hi and Lo sides . There is no leak at the affected area. If condenser bent is causing restriction of liquid refrigerant High side pressure will be very high. High and Low side pressures are very impart in analyzing component failure.

Dr MUDHAN · Jun 21, 2020

ravib said:

Thank you Ravib for the kind words.

ravib said:

In my case, only the reinforcement plate and some corrugated fins little bended /damaged, fortunately not damaging the refrigerant flowing tube. That’s why performance was not affected.
In your case, Your AC condenser looks apparently okay. I am afraid, whether the Honda service personal carried out the required analysis to pin point the cause. I endorse, Suryaputhra’s statement.
It’s highly skilled subject, difficult by DIY as keeping all required tools would not be possible. We require specialist support.

However, for the sake of our forum friends I prepared a check list which I think may also useful to you.

Dr MUDHAN · Jun 21, 2020

CHECK LIST TO DIAGNOSE CAR AC MALFUNCTIONING:

The common issues with our Car AC performance:

No AC at all
The Car's AC wasn't really effective as before
The drop in cooling after few hours
Emanating bad odor

1. No AC at all
No AC at all, if sudden, first to check the relevant fuse, otherwise it has to go to the specialist for ruling out the reason for mechanical breakdown.

2. The Car's AC wasn't really effective as before
This need not be due to condenser damage. May be due to condenser fan malfunction, expansion valve malfunction, leak in the system, a faulty thermostat, clogged evaporator coil, low refrigerant (gas), faulty Compressor Clutch / AC relay or a combination of these issues.

We need a proper diagnosis here and by connecting the AC manifold gauge will give an idea of what exactly is going on inside the system after seeing how the pressures are in both high and low sides of the system. Low pressure end: 45-50Psi and at high pressure end: 300+ psi are the optimum pressure readings.

Low and high-side pressures, higher than normal - lack of air flow through the condenser and an overcharge of the system due to a bad condenser-fan-motor/ worn fan-clutch or debris blocking air flow through the condenser.
Low-side is high, and the high-side is low- weak Compressor
Low-side is way too low and the high-side too high- clogged orifice
Both gauges read low - malfunctioning variable displacement compressor

After getting checked that pressure readings are within the prescribed limits, we need to make sure AC Compressor Clutch, AC relay, Evaporator coil unit also working fine. Note, Pressure in static and while engine running is checked. The prescribed parameter depends upon the type of refrigerant used and ambient temperature.

A professionally skilled person removes the HVAC unit to check out the heater and evaporator coil, to know whether the old evaporator is very dirty and are there traces of compressor oil leak. Then he reassembles everything, pump air into the HVAC system using a compressor to test for leaks. when the pressure stayed the same for at least 30 minutes, then vacuum the AC lines and then pump compressor oil and refrigerant into it, using the gas machine. This will make the temperature as cooler as before.

3. The drop in cooling after few hours
Probably, the car ECM is cutting of the AC and the only reason it would do that is that the car engine is overheating at that point. We need to check all other interrelated units like radiator, engine and lubricants etc.,

4. Emanating bad odor
Requires cleaning of Filters, Duct System, please Refer/Read from the pages of this thread- AC RELATED ISSUES 26, 122, 123

.

Suryaputhra · Jun 21, 2020

300 PSI is too high for Hi side. 225 PSI to 250PSI is OK. These pressures are depend on ambient temperature. When analyzing these pressures we need to correlate with ambient temperature. Over the net for all refrigerants temperature VS Refrigerant pressure charts available.

1. Some times if there is air in the system will cause inefficient AC.
2. Both sides low pressures sometimes indicate leak in the system.

How old is your car new cars are using rotary or scroll compressors unlike piston type compressors. these rotary and scroll compressors are highly efficient and lasts for life. Very less moving parts and lighter load on engine. Pls refer to my posts below.
Hyundai i10 AC Problem
Hyundai i10 AC Problem

As per my opinion before changing the condenser, try below things if possible.

1. Evacuate system.
2. Clean condenser thoroughly out side and flush the condenser.
3. Clean the evaporator coil(cooling coil) out side.
As per the above referred post refill the Refrigerant. I hope your issue will be solved provided if system is holding the pressures in my referred post.

Dr MUDHAN · Jun 22, 2020

ALBUS NEEDS TYRES REPLACEMENT

I understood, Tyres naturally degrade over a period of time because they're made from rubber. When a tyre ages, it loses the protective resin which keeps the rubber from oxidizing and drying out. As those oils evaporate, the tyre becomes brittle, and starts developing cracks and begins to break apart. Manufactures recommended replacement every 5 to 6 years.

Now, it is time to get a new set of tyres for my ALBUS as the OE tyres deteriorated over a period of 8 years and started showing warning signs of TYRE DRY ROT due to natural deterioration, though run only 20 Kms.

My personal experience with the OE tyres (Goodyear RT3) were not very good due to hard, poor wet grip & the annoying noise but, I have not even encountered one single puncture though drove over bad roads.

Honda has optimized (though may be even undersized the OE tires for the engine power) the OE tyres to this size (175/65/15) in order to maximize the FE.

My search of tyres began:
This is one topic much discussed among our Honda City owners and still appears to be incomplete in taking decisions.
There are so many pages about this in this Thread, Forum and everywhere in the Web.

My driving style:
Driving style is based on
1. Slow Paced/Medium Paced/Rash Driving
2. Whether we drive it alone or fully loaded
3. Frequency whether Daily /Moderately / Rarely
4. Kilometres Run,
5. Condition of the road.

I am medium paced, mostly travelling 1+1, below 100 Kms. every month on a good, moderately good road.

My decision should be based on:
1. Value for money
2. Usage and Utility
3. Adaptability to Indian Road Conditions
4. Reliable Brand and their specific product version
5. Suitability for my OE Allow Wheels@5.5j
6. Comfort, Liking side wall design and Sentiments.

I have only two options:

1. To go with OE specification 175/65/15
(OE brands that comes with the car are from GY, MRF, and Michelin / After Market, preferred brands are Michelin, Yokohama, Continental)
(or)
2. To 'up size' as popular among our Honda City owners, 195/60/15
(The preferred brand that I noticed are Michelin and Yokohama)

Note: I restrict discussions over other Brands/ Tyre vs Rm sizes/ side wall Ply /Tread count etc., which you can read / refer from under noted reference links.

PROS & CONS:

If I go for OE Specification
I will go for either of one- Goodyear Assurance TM2 / Yohama Bluearth AE50
(Continental MC5 & Michelin Primacy 4ST are not available in this size & I don’t want XM2)

Pros: All Rounder, Past experience, Better warranty, Reasonably Priced, Matching Stepney, Long life.
Cons: Miss the gorgeous look and ride comfort of Michelin. May be little noisier.

If I go for Upsize
I will go for Michelin Primacy 4ST

Pros: Gorgeous look, Ride comfort & Handling.
Cons: Pricey, old Stepney to be changed. Altered Fuel Efficiency & Speedo meter readings, Increased weight of the tyres, Reduction in GC, Ready with a Puncture Kit and Tyre Pump.

CONCLUSION:

No tyre could be perfect. If soft, won't long last. If hard won't be comfortable but noisy. If an all-rounder, may not be all seasonal & aesthetically attractive.

An all-rounder is good when we drive responsibly but once you corner hard or brake hard will lose the confidence. Stock tyres like Goodyear, MRF, Apollo are made up of carbon based rubber which is harder. Tyres like Michelin, Continental have silicon based soft rubber better grip and cornering ability, also needs careful maintenance.

So it is HIGH LIFE vs PERFORMANCE!

Manufactures make different specific models of tyres each of which is good for a specific task.

Therefore, we need to compromise and to go with that most suits you, your car's suspension.

I don't want to break my head more, so concluded as:

If I and my car is young, I would have gone for 195/60/15.

As I am 63+, my usage is very limited, I would stick on with OE specification. Preferably any one of Goodyear Assurance Triplemax 2 / Yokohama Bluearth AE50 , as both these offer now a perfect blend- better ride quality, low noise and most importantly less prone to punctures.

I shall see personally and decide soon.

NOTE:
1. Link pages of this thread worth to read to know more about tyre upgrade: 55, 67, 99,100,105,109, 110, 111 (Courtesy @ CRACING & TSIVipul)
2. TYRE REVIEWS

My New Honda City in White - The Albus

Dr MUDHAN

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