LED Trend: Right or Wrong ?

bhvm · Mar 23, 2014

Viru said:

1) Sure, Tail lights are much more easier to do. Their Legal and physical requirements are not so stringent. However there ARE many powerful Led headlights available. I'm using a set since 10 years on My safari, Then on My XUV 500. They costed me Hell to build, but they still run like new after 10 years. So it's totally worth it.

Slowly, Commercial companies have entered aftermaket LED fog lamps like-
4.5" Cannon - LED, HID, and Halogen Lighting | Off Road Lighting | Offroad LED Lighting | Mine Lighting | Mining Lighting | Marine Lighting | Agriculture Lighting | Defense Lighting | Industrial Lighting | Commercial Lighting | Automotive Lighting

LED Headlights | LED Headlamps | Nighthawk LED | GE Lighting North America

10W CREE LED 2" A Pod LED Fog Lamp/ Headlight / Bumper Light / Motorcycle LED/ Off-Road - Indore - Spare Parts - Accessories - A.B. Road. - drl lights price

2) COB are a great type. They use many small dies under a thin layer of phosphor to provide even, Smooth light. However they're not so great for Automotive lights , as automotive lamps prefer Point light source , which are easier to focus. COB lights , if used will need very big and expensive lenses to cover their entire footprint. Lenses can typically cost 30~40 percent of an LED project.

Viru · Mar 23, 2014

bhvm said:

Yep! Well, the only decent LED headlamps I could find were CREE LED's, but I doubt they produce the 1800 lumens they claim, also they require a separate fan, which is a bit ungainly...

I actually read your article about the LED driving lamp on your Safari earlier today, it was quite impressive! But still not a plug-and-play replacement for Halogen headlamps. Just curious, how are they coping with water exposure?

LED fogs in their current state are just cosmetic. Either their output is too low, or their colour temperature is so high that in any foggy or rainy weather it just causes worlds of backscatter and eye pain.

Ahh, but isn't their luminous flux compromised when compared to an SMD type LED array of the same power consumption?

bhvm · Mar 24, 2014

My answers in BOLD

Viru said:

Yep! Well, the only decent LED headlamps I could find were CREE LED's, but I doubt they produce the 1800 lumens they claim, also they require a separate fan, which is a bit ungainly...

Cree is a Brand. They're good at making LEDs for Domestic use. However, Most of the Automotive LEDs (as found in Audi R8 and Other supercars) Come in the form of Osram Golden Dragon or Osram OSLON
LED for automotive applications | OSRAM Opto Semiconductors

osram golden dragon - Google Search

I guess you're referring to those dingly looking bulbs using a couple of Cree Chips. Acually, its a shame people even call it "LED headlight"
These are cheap, Stop gap solutions for people who want LED just for the heck of it and Don't care about actual performance or safety. Look at how Audi Makes their "LED headlight"... do they use such dingy bulbs in their halogen housings? No. End of discussion.

I actually read your article about the LED driving lamp on your Safari earlier today, it was quite impressive! But still not a plug-and-play replacement for Halogen headlamps. Just curious, how are they coping with water exposure?

They're doing pretty tough. The Whole LED, wiring and lenses mounts are gooped up with siilicon. It ain't pretty , but it gets the Job well done. I suppose i would have gone atleast 5~6 halogen bulbs over this 10 year lifespan, which means my LED are actually cheaper in long run. Not to mention the Excellent performance at minimal consumptions.

LED fogs in their current state are just cosmetic. Either their output is too low, or their colour temperature is so high that in any foggy or rainy weather it just causes worlds of backscatter and eye pain.
Again, If you are refering to 'CORN' type LED Lights, Let me show you how real LED fog lamps look like-

New LED lighting modules Fog, Drive assist and DRL - YouTube

In general sense, just stay away from any contraptions that fit into your halogen housings. We Commit the same mistake at home, do we? We stuff LEDs into Housings made for CFLs (and those were infact made for Incan Bulbs), then we blame the tech because we did'nt get quoted performance and life.

Let me show you my LED lightbar used for my home-
The guide for same is in progeress.
IMG_8580.JPG

IMG_8852.JPG

IMG_8391.JPG

IMG_8558.JPG

Ahh, but isn't their luminous flux compromised when compared to an SMD type LED array of the same power consumption?

Did'nt understand your SMD statement.

Viru · Mar 27, 2014

bhvm said:

I meant those LED's advertised as CREE LED's on eBay:
Universal Car Truck H4 1800Lm 70W CREE LED Headlight Headlamp Hi Low Beam 7500K | eBay

Probably...I agree actually, they are probably useless.

I have to agree that LEDs are cheaper in the long run, and also a lot more convenient because they don't need changing all the time.

Those LED fogs are appealing, but they still have the high colour temperature problem, it won't be very helpful in foggy weather.

Well, I have a set of LED bulbs specifically designed to replace CFLs in the standard household Bayonet fitting, and I have to say they are doing very well!

The lightbar is very pretty! I'm guessing you had to use a ballast to convert from 220V 50Hz AC to 12V DC?

For an equally power consuming 'COB chip' and 'Surface Mounted LED array' won't the the SMD type be brighter?

bhvm · Mar 27, 2014

Replies in BOLD

Viru said:

I meant those LED's advertised as CREE LED's on eBay:
Universal Car Truck H4 1800Lm 70W CREE LED Headlight Headlamp Hi Low Beam 7500K | eBay

Probably...I agree actually, they are probably useless.
Totally. And those puny heatsinks will support 70W? They look max like 20~25W to me. have a look at heatsink on your 60W Intel PC and you'll know. Rather, I would go for a proper Bi-X HID kit for 80 dollars.

I have to agree that LEDs are cheaper in the long run, and also a lot more convenient because they don't need changing all the time.

Those LED fogs are appealing, but they still have the high colour temperature problem, it won't be very helpful in foggy weather.

LEDs are available in All colour temps. The problem is Consumers demand High CCT just because They look COOL. 4300K is the best

Well, I have a set of LED bulbs specifically designed to replace CFLs in the standard household Bayonet fitting, and I have to say they are doing very well!

The lightbar is very pretty! I'm guessing you had to use a ballast to convert from 220V 50Hz AC to 12V DC?

That lightbar has 3 Ballasts. One is Simple one with dimmers. This is for Night lamp or Longue use. If you've noticed, i have used a mix of Warm and Cool white LEDs. This lightbar is CCT tuneable. That means I can run it from very golden 2900k all the way till 6500K and Anything in between. I usually run the lightbar at 4700K which happens like a cheerful sunshine day.
Rest 2 ballasts do this. The ballasts are proper Constant Current sources (regulated and with short circuit protection)
For an equally power consuming 'COB chip' and 'Surface Mounted LED array' won't the the SMD type be brighter?

COB chip will be better on all fronts. SMD is just a stop gap solution. SMDs have wider die area but they don't have any heatsinks, they're famous because they're cheap. COB are not cheap.

Viru · Mar 28, 2014

bhvm said:

Totally. And those puny heatsinks will support 70W? They look max like 20~25W to me. have a look at heatsink on your 60W Intel PC and you'll know. Rather, I would go for a proper Bi-X HID kit for 80 dollars.

:lol!:

True! I hate aftermarket HID's, I'll just stick to high-output Halogens.

LEDs are available in All colour temps. The problem is Consumers demand High CCT just because They look COOL. 4300K is the best

Those are people who leave their foglights on all day everyday for no reason, and then try using their main beams in the fog! 4000K-4300K is perfect for fogs in my experience.

That lightbar has 3 Ballasts. One is Simple one with dimmers. This is for Night lamp or Longue use. If you've noticed, i have used a mix of Warm and Cool white LEDs. This lightbar is CCT tuneable. That means I can run it from very golden 2900k all the way till 6500K and Anything in between. I usually run the lightbar at 4700K which happens like a cheerful sunshine day.
Rest 2 ballasts do this. The ballasts are proper Constant Current sources (regulated and with short circuit protection)

You must be an electrical engineer

COB chip will be better on all fronts. SMD is just a stop gap solution. SMDs have wider die area but they don't have any heatsinks, they're famous because they're cheap. COB are not cheap.

Oh, thanks for that.

bhvm · Mar 28, 2014

My Replies in UNDERLINE

Viru said:

Totally. And those puny heatsinks will support 70W? They look max like 20~25W to me. have a look at heatsink on your 60W Intel PC and you'll know. Rather, I would go for a proper Bi-X HID kit for 80 dollars.

True! I hate aftermarket HID's, I'll just stick to high-output Halogens.
Aftermarket HID, if Installed with decent research and finesse can be as good as Factory HIDs. I have Installed 35W HID inside the projector housings of my Toyota fortuner and they're as Good as it gets. The Cutoff is sharp, The spread is great.

LEDs are available in All colour temps. The problem is Consumers demand High CCT just because They look COOL. 4300K is the best

Those are people who leave their foglights on all day everyday for no reason, and then try using their main beams in the fog! 4000K-4300K is perfect for fogs in my experience.

For REAL Fog application, Experts actually suggest even warmer Temperatures like 2900K or 3200K. Have a look at WRC cars and you'll notice. On the other hand, 4300k is Road legal and is a great compromise between fog and daily driving.

In Certain countries with DRL laws, Cops are OK if you keep your Fogs on In lieu of Dedicated DRLs. This is useful for Older cars who don't have factory DRLs.

That lightbar has 3 Ballasts. One is Simple one with dimmers. This is for Night lamp or Longue use. If you've noticed, i have used a mix of Warm and Cool white LEDs. This lightbar is CCT tuneable. That means I can run it from very golden 2900k all the way till 6500K and Anything in between. I usually run the lightbar at 4700K which happens like a cheerful sunshine day.
Rest 2 ballasts do this. The ballasts are proper Constant Current sources (regulated and with short circuit protection)

] You must be an electrical engineer

Well.. Ha ha! Im just an Enthusiast. Although I've defeated "Proper" certified engineers. I've been playing since LEDs from 4th grade. I've been driving since 7th Grade (Shhhh!!!)

Just some Brain food for you-
http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/f...periments-leds-xenon-strobes-torches-etc.html

Viru · Mar 28, 2014

bhvm said:

Well, they use lower temperature fogs on rally cars quite simply because they are more readily available in higher powered bulbs, and are less affected by dusty conditions. I have actually been on a few rally teams [;)]

On the road, higher temperature fogs (but not too high) help see road markings and signs easier in foggy weather, something us Delhiites are plagued with.

In yet other countries cops fine you on the spot if you use fogs when there is no fog or rain, which doesn't really make much sense to me.

That's exactly what I did when I restored a 1970 Datsun 240Z for a rally a while ago. All the engineers said it was impossible because the car was so battered and had been left to rot, but we proved them wrong!

bhvm · Mar 29, 2014

Viru said:

1) Wow ! Thats great! Can you point us to some of your Rally experiences?

2) I hate those dummy rules. Unless a person is Blinding others( or doing something clearly illegal), it should not invite a fine. There's nothing wrong with using Factory E4 or DOT approved Fogs. In metros, I've seen a new trend where people are driving with just their city lights and Fogs on. It feels good and is not blinding at all (Factory Fogs only)

3)Also, In US spec vehicles, The Fogs go OFF the moment High beams are engaged, I double hate that!

Viru · Mar 29, 2014

bhvm said:

What experiences do you want to know about?

Agreed! And since fogs are aimed low and wide they are actually less disturbing than regular low-beams to other users!
By city lights are you referring to clearance lights or low-beams?

Actually that makes sense to me, fogs and high-beams should never be used together:

In foggy or dusty conditions the high-beams will just backscatter and blind you.

In clear conditions fogs help short-range visibility, but if you're using high beams chances are you actually want long-range visibility.

amiti · Mar 29, 2014

My few paisas on this LED and overall after market headlights etc matter.

LED's in India have become more of fling thing. IMHO it is not adding any value(read LED's such as in i20). In Sweden they are compulsory as there is hazy atmosphere and low visibility. To increase visibility they were added as must.

Overall comments--
While designing headlamps OEM's take into account the temperature generated by headlights and design the assembly accordingly. However adding aftermarket LED headlamps, HID's and etc, the increased temperature always make headlamps dull.
I have seen such after market lights make the headlamp assembly dull further reducing the effect of headlights during night travel.

yoscenario2000 · Mar 29, 2014

Viru said:

Good job buddy... [clap]

Really interested to know the details about the same.

yoscenario2000 · Mar 29, 2014

amiti said:

It's not only for Sweden, but for all Scandinavian countries.

This is my experience as I'm spending most of time in a year in Europe.

Viru · Mar 29, 2014

amiti said:

Agreed that these days people use them just as a fashion statement, and find it quite pointless to be honest.

AFAIK LEDs produce less heat than filament bulbs, so I doubt they can cause damage to the housing. Scorching is usually due to the use of higher power halogen bulbs or badly installed HIDs.

yoscenario2000 said:

Haha thanks! It was years ago, I will try and see what I can find!

sethumurugan · Mar 29, 2014

Recently I heard that LEDs are not good for your eyes. Even at home, we should avoid looking into LEDs directly. I dont know will it be useful for this discussion, but thought of sharing the info I heard.

Even I have LED cabin light and parking light for my sparky. Planing for LED reverse light and red light in LED for my sparky.

LED Trend: Right or Wrong ?

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