Blue Oval: The Ford Motor Company. Your Likes & Dislikes?

[Figoian]

Hi figoian,
I'm sorry if I crossed the limits,but the way people were defending Ford for their highhandedness and justifying superiority I felt I should present facts properly.We too own a Ford, but I am not biased and will criticize if something is not right.If Ford had such superiority it would have been the No:1 car maker.There were umpteen number of problems with Fiesta's and IKON's.Simply bringing in points like car is heavy and stuff doesn't justify part failures.I love Fiat's madly but won't buy it because of ASS and many niggles.Our Figo was recalled for RTB last year,so its natural for me to get irritated when someone says Ford is superior,blah blah.Call a Spade a Spade.
Regards,
Aneesh.

Thanks Aneesh, for your understanding. Our basic idea is to have a friendly and healthy debate to enrich our knowledge better without hurting anyone's sentiments.

Yes, I do agree with your points. As I mentioned earlier, just loving the car shouldn't make us to love the brand as well. Both are way different.

 

[Raja]

Simple. Every company / brands has their own Positives & Negatives. Otherwise, we wouldn't have so many here... We must remember that, they are here after all to make money and nothing else, be it MS or Ford or VW or BMW. There is no, absolute no personal touches anywhere, except for you & your car. Being personally attached to the brand is like being mad about an actor for what he does in movies which is just a fantasy

Let's have an unbiased and healthy debate.

+100 rightly said this is what I wrote on ecosport thread when love and hate was at peak lol

But then who are just defending every move of ford company too , for every wrong of ford there is a justification . Such useless defending of a company distorts information and is of no use to a consumer .



On forums brand love / hate must be kept aside , because if we proudly proclaim that we are a fanboy / hater of a particular company , none of our post will be taken seriously because people will simply not treat your posts as objective ones and think that the posts are full of bias .

Like I said there is a thin line in defaming endlessly & criticizing/ bashing wrong doings and Admiration & fanboyism .

one must understand that line and try not to cross it . Then every view point although unique and different brings true information and quality .

 

[Raja]

@all ford owners

Is the service and spare parts cheaper in ford cars ? How often you are faced with niggles ? And how would you rate the efficiency of ford a.s.s in resolving problems .

 

[Bopanna]

Even in it's home country, Ford's reputation amongst consumers has been plummeting. The last Consumer Reports survey (Oct '12) ranked Ford at 27th out of 28 auto manufacturers.

In only two years, Ford has fallen from the top 10, when 90% of its models were scored industry average or better for predicted reliability. But in the latest CR survey, it ranks 27th out of 28 makers.

"Sixty percent of Ford-branded models and half of Lincolns were below average in predicted reliability, and none placed above average," said Jake Fisher,director of automotive testing for Consumer Report

Besides infotainment, Ford was criticized for introducing a bevy of redesigned models that were unusually troublesome, in the view of their owners. Explorer, Fiesta, and Focus and other redesigned models "came out of the gate with more problems than normal,"

So much so, that Ford's own advertizement tagline "Built Ford Tough" has come to acquire an entirely different meaning from what Ford marketing intended ...

Urban Dictionary

Most commonly used to describe a large/intimidating individual who, upon entering in a fist fight, is knocked out after one or two punches. Originated from the slogan for the Ford Motor Company and the fact that Ford trucks look large and intimidating, but are prone to breakdowns, usually of the transmission.

 

[Figoian]

@all ford owners

Is the service and spare parts cheaper in ford cars ? How often you are faced with niggles ? And how would you rate the efficiency of ford a.s.s in resolving problems .

To what I know, spares are cheaper only in case of Figo due to localisation and child part concept. I also have seen their part comparison chart against Swift in the FASS and Swift is shown to be expensive than Figo. Though not sure on it's authenticity as I haven't owned a Swift or has a friend owning one or both. Others are typical Ford and ES is yet to be known.

Niggles are quite often, but mostly varies with each car. I had / having quite few whereas my friends owning Figo doesn't complaint that much. It's also got to do with the attention to detail you do to your car. Eg: A friend of mine never even care about a rattle from the cabin or a noise from the engine, but I would do. He says, they do often appear and disappear to take care or mostly taken care during regular services. So, niggles are present. But they are more present when you attend to it promptly

Efficiency, I already had mentioned about, rather cried. THEY AREN'T MOSTLY IF NOT ALL THE TIME. To put it otherwise, they are efficient until you report with some issues that are arduous to diagnose

 

[1989rs500]

,

Brother there is nothing wrong in figo, but at the same time there is nothing extra ordinary too compared to the competetion .
Have you driven the Honda crv or the new accord and the new rav 4 ? They have all the qualities what the American and Europeans have and yet are more reliable .
We need to understand 50,000Rs is worth a years diesel . And for some it can be a big figure . And since the dollar has come down a bit and if further comes down will ford reduce the price ?
Yes you too are free to express your view and hence we are having a debate .
So now what ? They are focused or not ?
Please understand as consumers why must we understand what must be happening with ford ? Did ford understand what will happen if we increase 50,000rs on ecosports pricing to people who have saved money ? Or their plans might go haywire ?
Its ok no worries .
You are free to express and infact post history of ford cars too . No one has stoped you from doing so . The thread is all about that .

Figo is just a normal car but with one minor difference, no other car in this price range is even close to matching its handling and precise steering and the engine is really good, its very efficient still has almost 0 lag unlike Swift,1.2TDi, best music system in any hatchback below 7lakh,smartest AC,etc
Still as you have said some may ignore handling and the things I mentioned so I will agree with you, its a car that blended with the crowd
About CRV Rav4 etc nothing can touch Ford Kuga, this is just a websites opinion but I agree with them
2013 Crossover competition: Ford Escape, Honda CR-V, Mazda CX-5, Chevy Equinox, Kia Sportage - video - YouTube
Abut hike, yes I am not going to respond to emotions but I still think some are preparing to bash Ford for every of their moves just because of hike, so I supported the minority here thats all, 50k means different for different people thats why I suggested someone to cancel booking and buy something else rather than keeping on complaining

Hi figoian,
I'm sorry if I crossed the limits,but the way people were defending Ford for their highhandedness and justifying superiority I felt I should present facts properly.We too own a Ford, but I am not biased and will criticize if something is not right.If Ford had such superiority it would have been the No:1 car maker.There were umpteen number of problems with Fiesta's and IKON's.Simply bringing in points like car is heavy and stuff doesn't justify part failures.I love Fiat's madly but won't buy it because of ASS and many niggles.Our Figo was recalled for RTB last year,so its natural for me to get irritated when someone says Ford is superior,blah blah.Call a Spade a Spade.
Regards,
Aneesh.

I agree Ford is not perfect like Toyota,Honda still they offer something different what other competition cant offer like ride and handling balance,AC,infotainment,Euro styling and bit more solidity in their cars,I am biased towards these features so I liked Ford
and as you said if these are not someones criteria and if someone wants a reliable niggle free and trouble free car they should look somewhere else.

@all ford owners

Is the service and spare parts cheaper in ford cars ? How often you are faced with niggles ? And how would you rate the efficiency of ford a.s.s in resolving problems .

I find Ford parts mainly AC compressor,fuel filter and certain electrical components on the higher side and other than that most parts in general are not as cheap as Eastern but not as costly as premium brands like Skoda\VW , so I find Ford striking a balance between luxury and Eastern brands, still not midway between them a bit above that level

Even in it's home country, Ford's reputation among luxury consumers has been plummeting. The last Consumer Reports survey (Oct '12) ranked Ford at 27th out of 28 auto manufacturers.
So much so, that Ford's own advertizement tagline "Built Ford Tough" has come to acquire an entirely different meaning from what Ford marketing intended ...
Urban Dictionary

Agree with those reports as the issues like slow MYford touch,3.5l ecoboost stalling and F-150 stalling made these,C-Max Hybrid and Fusion Hybrid and turbo not able to deliver mileage, but I dont think its not even close to plummeting Fords image, consumer reports is just a magazine just like Autocar India and they posted these issues, but even while they are posting these issues Ford Escape is gaining and is best selling SUV in USA now, Focus is already in top 5 best selling and its staying very strong infact challenging Civic, and Fusion(Mondeo) is 3rd best seller despite being more pricey than Accord,Camry,Kia etc and Fusion is told to become as the best seller by 2020 in USA
About Focus it has already crossed 350 million bookings world wide and became worlds best selling car for 3 consecutive months again despite being costly than Toyota corolla
So do you think all these people taking Ford are fools, what I think is Ford was struck badly from the recession and after Allan came in they are like the fastest growing brand after Hyundai, see I dont know whether @Bopannna has seen a Focus,I have and trust me,its almost built like a German car and still its affordable, and I see an impending competition breaking down between Ford vs Honda s Hyundai vs Toyota, before 2010 this was not at all the case, Ford was stumbling down and had no chance to compete with either Germans nor Japs and Koreans but One Ford plan is working, its not the smoothest in its way but it still has the ability to gain market
One thing is sure after Kuga,Focus/Escort,Mondeo sets its foot in India the Fords story in India is definitely going to change

 

[MSN1]

When i took figo, it was absolutely due to the car which was with in my budget and i like its drivablilty next to punto, which was out of my budget and at that time TATA Fiat ASS is sick.

During the past 3 years am happy with the ford / Dealer Service

Reason why am more tilted towards ford to take Ecosport

Servicing :-
With metro ford servicing and claiming the insurance is easy, once i faced hiccups on claiming with Bajaj Alliance that time ford and Metro ford dealer helped me from bajaj burning my pocket.

and once ford agreed and replaced fuel injector (one among the 4 injectors failed) as fuel injector wont go kaput just like that, and they agreed and replaced it under warranty with no single rupee gone out of my pocket (the cost of it along with service and all other parts replaced comes to 16,500 paid by ford)

and they did recall on RTB rear twisted beam and replaced it.

every service is not on higher side and it was been told to me and updated earlier by Service Advisors

Product quality:
Every one criticized the interior plastics of figo, where even i felt its not upmarketish or great, but either i cant call it as bad too, because i haven't faced any issue with those plastics during the 3 years term and it didn't fade thru or get damaged.

Product quality when i compare figo and ecosport in ecosport its very much improved.

Servicing:
this part always depends up on dealer 80 % and manufacturer is just 20 %, for any manufacturer if you got good dealer we appreciate the servicing but fortunately we have as many bad dealers to deal with being it MS or FORD or any brand, they are not stringent and keeping dealers on their complete control, and we cant expect it in India

spares and life of spares

servicing at every 10k and where parts replacement duration is more than 20k, with the child parts strategy the spares cost is with in my affordable level for the diesel mill i have.

and lastly with the 4yrs Road side assistance and Extended warranty

my deal with Ford and Metro ford going good...,


Sales and Servicing
All Dealers are not good at all the time for all their customers, and all customers are not true and good for a dealer from dealers point of view.. both are true

it also depends up on how well you handle your deal with the dealer.

 

[Bopanna]

Yeah - Consumer Reports is just a magazine - don't trust it; inspite of it being well known in US for it's editorial independence and impartiality. Better to trust a manufacturer's claims about it's own reliability; these claims are totally conflict-free from their basic commercial interest. When data cannot be countered, question credibility of data. Yawn.

Muzzling consumer groups and belittling them is exactly what corporates and corporate interests would love to do - and have been doing so far in India. But thanks to online communities like TAI, it is no longer easy to do so.

BTW, Ford Focus' claims to having overtaken Toyota Corolla are just that - claims. Toyota has actually contested this claim with a counter claim ...

http://businessdayonline.com/2013/04/corolla-was-2012-global-sales-leader/

Even Ford Focus is under investigation by US authorities for an engine stall issue:

Government Investigating Electric Ford Focus

Another thing that did not make sense was the advice to "Do not complain about Ecosport, better cancel". If such topsy-turvy logic was valid, I'd advice "Do not praise Ecosport, first purchase".

 

[Raja]

Yeah - Consumer Reports is just a magazine - don't trust it; inspite of it being well known in US for it's editorial independence and impartiality. Better to trust a manufacturer's claims about it's own reliability; these claims are totally conflict-free from their basic commercial interest. When data cannot be countered, question credibility of data. Yawn.

.

Consumer reports is a highly unbiased and very neutral body . And extremely reputated . You are right and I agree with you .

About CRV Rav4 etc nothing can touch Ford Kuga, this is just a websites opinion but I agree with them

Cant Touch the kuga in what sense ?

 

[K!NkY]

Ford cars I 've driven abroad are awesome. If Ford brings Ford One Global to India then it can make other manufacturers to bring similar. I would say Gulf is the only place you can see all cars in the world not even in US or european countries. I have seen small ratio of Ford cars there and most of them driven by Asians. Otherwise i did see American or their Army driving Ford cars. Only Majority of American cars I have seen their is GMC.

Regarding Cheaper spares. I always see a comparision of spares in Ford SC and the cars they compare with Swift and Vista. And they list them as cheaper spares. I would say all spares which they list there are which you might change every 60k kms but what you change regular in each service will not be there. My 3rd service at 20K kms cost me 10k +taxes. The SA himself did not know what was in the bill.

 

[Simple_car]

One of my favouraite car companies of all time. I am not a fan, but the fact is this company has always produced a car which perfectly suits my requirements, hence my family has the whole range of their products (except for the ecosport).

+ves:
- agile cars
- suspension set up is very much to my tastes.
- steering (HPS and EPS) are amongst the better one's.
- ergonomics.
- paint quality is better than the competition (this is as per my observation).
- well built and robust cars (not in the league of the germans but then the germans are'nt as agile as the fords)
- reasonably well loaded with gizmos. Not the best, but enough for all day to day usage.
- reasonable service costs. Not the cheapest, but competitive nonetheless. Body work and painting however is very expensive with ford.


-ves:
- QC are not as good as the competition. You will always have some part in the car (which may be noticeable or not) which will fail earlier than expected. It may sometimes be a small plastic switch or sometimes a suspension component or something else. There is always that one thing..
- Don't age well. You sit in a reasonably well maintained old ford and you know it has run a lot of kms. There won't be rattles, but the overall feel will tell you that the car has run a lot.
- Engines. Except for the 1.6 duratec, all have been a disappointment. Average engines which do not do justice to the car.
- Complaint handling. Although much improved from the earlier years, still a long way to go.

Of course, each individual cars has its own merits and demerits. The points mentioned above are more of a generalization for the company in India only.

Thanks,
Simple_car

 

[1989rs500]

Yeah - Consumer Reports is just a magazine - don't trust it; inspite of it being well known in US for it's editorial independence and impartiality. Better to trust a manufacturer's claims about it's own reliability; these claims are totally conflict-free from their basic commercial interest. When data cannot be countered, question credibility of data. Yawn.

Muzzling consumer groups and belittling them is exactly what corporates and corporate interests would love to do - and have been doing so far in India. But thanks to online communities like TAI, it is no longer easy to do so.

BTW, Ford Focus' claims to having overtaken Toyota Corolla are just that - claims. Toyota has actually contested this claim with a counter claim ...

http://businessdayonline.com/2013/04/corolla-was-2012-global-sales-leader/

Even Ford Focus is under investigation by US authorities for an engine stall issue:

Government Investigating Electric Ford Focus

Another thing that did not make sense was the advice to "Do not complain about Ecosport, better cancel". If such topsy-turvy logic was valid, I'd advice "Do not praise Ecosport, first purchase".

Ok in 2012 Ford claimed it and couldnt meet the worlds best selling car record because Toyota took Corolla Wagon,Corolla All track etc and claimed that all these are Corollas and now in 2013 My,June,July focus came on top again Toyota took it back this month with new redesigned Corolla, still just think of it, its almost 2-3 lakh INR costly than Corolla still getting this much cars is no easy task
Again in USA Ford is not that great just like cricket is national game of England but they are one of the worst now in performance, the biggest reason being Americans are the laziest people in the world, check Ford Europe,in Europe Ford is under heavy decline but they have started regaining with new Fiesta 1.0 ecoboost and 1.6 TDCi Econetic for the first firecracker, now will come Mondeo with new 2.0 TDCi and Mondeo Vignale a premium Mondeo to rival Audi A4,Merc C Class,BMW 3 series, the new Ford S-Max and lots more, see even after Ford hitting issues in USA like Electric Focus stalling C-Max hybrids less mpg, Ford is gaining the market much better than how Hyundai used to dominate USA, infact Ford now has defeated Hyundai sales in USA, now they have to just concentrate on Honda and Toyota, because even though there are issues more people are happy with Euro Fords in USA, the troubles highlighted are just below 5% of total Ford sales in USA

Consumer reports is a highly unbiased and very neutral body . And extremely reputated . You are right and I agree with you .
Cant Touch the kuga in what sense ?

About Kuga, Yes Kuga is great, no SUV in that territory other than VW Tiguan has the ability to touch Kugas blend of comfort,Power,Handling,Style,features, excpet being a little bitmore costly than the Japs its way better than Japs and Koreans and even Germans in almost all areas, no wonder Kuga is now one of top seller in USA
Yes but these are issues that are in minority when compared to majority of people who are enjoying Fords,@Raja might be able to give a better idea since you have been to US right, and even in most consumer reports reviews they tell the new Focus,Escape,Fusion etc as very good products, and issues aside Escape is best seller,Fusion is 3rd best seller and is gaining market,Focus lost a few places and is now in 5th place I think, but Ford is improving MyFord touch with updates every 3 months,C-Max mpg issue has been resolved,turbo engines not delivering good mpg is being taken care by new 1.5 ecoboost coming to USA within 3-4 months time,Focus electric issue is an engineering experimental success its a new design and its in its first phase roll and most electric cars had these issues so does the Focus
about 3.5l ecoboost f-150s Ford and GM is working togather to make a milliard of difference and they are going to come up with a new 10 speed AT transmission in large engines that will solve the mpg and power issues , so what I see is a growing brand and not a falling brand since they are ready to solve issues
Ford America is very bad but still they are ready to address issues and recalls were made to make things perfect,as I have told before Ford is not tip top reliable as Toyota/Honda but they are growing with One Ford plan, that is another major reason why I like Ford,

One of my favouraite car companies of all time. I am not a fan, but the fact is this company has always produced a car which perfectly suits my requirements, hence my family has the whole range of their products (except for the ecosport).

+ves:
- agile cars
- suspension set up is very much to my tastes.
- steering (HPS and EPS) are amongst the better one's.
- ergonomics.
- paint quality is better than the competition (this is as per my observation).
- well built and robust cars (not in the league of the germans but then the germans are'nt as agile as the fords)
- reasonably well loaded with gizmos. Not the best, but enough for all day to day usage.
- reasonable service costs. Not the cheapest, but competitive nonetheless. Body work and painting however is very expensive with ford.


-ves:
- QC are not as good as the competition. You will always have some part in the car (which may be noticeable or not) which will fail earlier than expected. It may sometimes be a small plastic switch or sometimes a suspension component or something else. There is always that one thing..
- Don't age well. You sit in a reasonably well maintained old ford and you know it has run a lot of kms. There won't be rattles, but the overall feel will tell you that the car has run a lot.
- Engines. Except for the 1.6 duratec, all have been a disappointment. Average engines which do not do justice to the car.
- Complaint handling. Although much improved from the earlier years, still a long way to go.

Of course, each individual cars has its own merits and demerits. The points mentioned above are more of a generalization for the company in India only.

Thanks,
Simple_car

About handling in the -vs section how does it become a Fords -vs buddy, and engines I do agree they could have done with better power, but as of now they are not bad they are very good just blends with the rest of the segment, I dont think engines are a -ve

 

[Simple_car]

About handling in the -vs section how does it become a Fords -vs buddy

Oops.. didn't put it right. I meant customer complaint handling and responsiveness. Not 'handling' in terms of suspension. Sorry.

engines I do agree they could have done with better power, but as of now they are not bad they are very good just blends with the rest of the segment, I dont think engines are a -ve

As long as you are happy..

Engine's don't always have to be judged with respect to power. I drive my uncle's endeavour and for me the power is more than enough. Yet, I do not like the engine. I am speaking, with respect to the car, the engine disappoints in a big way.
If the same engine would have been in a nissan/tata, I wouldn't crib. In a ford, none of the engines do justice, and no they are not good in any aspect you can look (except for the 1.6 mill). For me, the engine's disappoint after seeing the rest of the car. Since, I do not harp much on engine's while buying a car, I buy ford's. My brother won't touch ford at all. He hates them purely due to the engines.

Thanks,
Simple_car

 

[1989rs500]

Engine's don't always have to be judged with respect to power. I drive my uncle's endeavour and for me the power is more than enough. Yet, I do not like the engine. I am speaking, with respect to the car, the engine disappoints in a big way.
If the same engine would have been in a nissan/tata, I wouldn't crib. In a ford, none of the engines do justice, and no they are not good in any aspect you can look (except for the 1.6 mill). For me, the engine's disappoint after seeing the rest of the car. Since, I do not harp much on engine's while buying a car, I buy ford's. My brother won't touch ford at all. He hates them purely due to the engines.

Thanks,
Simple_car

See engines are best said adequate, Nissan and Japs have better power feel just because they are lighter in kerb weight, see the Punto its seriously under powered with multi jet because of weight same goes for Polo and Fabia 1.2 TDi they are very low on power when car is filled, same goes for Ford, about Power even though Japs and and Koreans give great power we wont be able to exploit it due to poor dynamics and handling and suspension, on the German side they are very good above 10 lakh like Vento is damn powerful so is Rapid and is sure buy as per me if sedan is a priority and if total style and features are not an option
About Endeavor I havent driven it, but as of now next Endeavour is getting a 3.0 l 5 cylinder diesel motor and probably a 2.2 TDCi as well, that 2.2 TDCi is a great engine it falls short of power above 5000 rpm but until then its almost as good as the 3.0 TDCi as of now
Fords diesel engines are made by PSA collaboration,if we look into Peugeot HDi engines they are same as TDCis but tuned for better revving and more power, sadly Fords philosophy is kind off different Diesel=Economy 1st, Petrol for fun and economy.
in terms of petrol I really like Ecoboost and Fords corporate 2.0 NA engine(164 bhp@ 6000 rpm and 200NM @5500rpm), I wish Ford brings these engines to India, they are very very good,If Ford plans these engines to India its going to make hay for them sure

 

[vicky90]

Ford - not doing good in USA comes as a shocker to me! It is the highest selling single brand in USA and has gone a really long way since 2008 after Mr Allan Mulally took charge. A recent survey has said that Ford is the brand which higher number of people will opt for as their car in USA and its ahead of toyota. Every month it sells nearly 2.5 lakh units in US aloneand its getting better in China every other day. The Big mistake which ford did was between 1990-2005 during which it aquired all the possible companies it could do and as a result, the management strenght diluted leading to the decline of Ford as a brand.

Coming to India, Ford has made exciting cars here but FASS comes in and is spoiling the image of the company here. I myself had a sour experience with the sales, the service is going good. When I visited the service area and when I was talking to the service mechanics there just chatting about cars, they said the best car which ford has made is the Ikon till date and that the quality was very good in the car compared to all other cars at that time.
Positives and negatives are with all the companies and I have experiences with MASS while servicing my Old Alto where they goofed up the bill to ten thousand and when intervened it was just robbery from their side but that does not mean M&S is the culprit. But I would say M&S have better grip over their dealers and they literally screw them up in case of a complaint. This may be because that they already have an established set of 1300 sales and service outlets so that now they concentrate fully on the quality of service. Ford which is just in the growing stage is trying to curb dealers malpractices but surely not to the extent of MS.

When I visited Honda for amaze test drive, the SA was not bothered to answer me in anyway possible. I know a guy who worked in Toyota service and when I was having a casual chat with him, he was telling how they used to convince customers that they have changed a part without changing it. The same has happened to my friend's wagon r . The dealer has said that they have changed the engine belt but hey have not changed it. As my friend has some knowledge about automobiles he came to know this and when he shooted a mail to MS, people came running to him for the change with constant follow ups.
Am sure ford would have such instances too.

So it all boils to the fact that all are here to make business and have their own set of positives and negatives. It depends on which side out-performs the other and which side affects whom and that makes one love or hate the brand.