Audio System Upgrade on Hyundai Verna Fluidic

[neil.vernafluidic]

@ nickandre , @neil : Done ! After a lot of thinking, I have decided will go step by step on some quality Audio Upgrade instead of just putting up some c**p in a hurry.
First, I'll upgrade the 4 speakers.( Budget 10 K )
Second, Put a good 4 channel Amp for the speakers ( Budget 7-8 K)
Along with wiring, fitting charges, this comes to 20K. And I think this will give a decent sound. I'll go for a sub and a mono-amp for the sub later.
Now, what is the wattage/rms of the OEM speakers ? I'll replace all 4, done ! Which are good speakers i'll get for 10 K ? (can i get rockford fosgate for 10K , all 4 ??).
Secondly, Can I get a 4 channel amp from rockford fosgate within 8K ? If not, JBL is there for sure. But will it work well with Rcokford/any other speakers ? Or is it that all the stuff (speakers,sub,amp has to be of the same brand) ? Which speakers of rockford/JBL GTO series/Infinity will directly fit into OEM speakers ? Will there be any difference in quality of music after fitting 4 new speakers and a 4 channel amp for the speakers ??How will the fitting/wiring be done for this? I am more keen on rockford fosgate or JBL GTO than any other brand. These are good.

that's a good idea. even 1 year back when i was new to all these stuff and didnt know anything , i purchased lot of crp stuffs , eventually you will notice that they not at all good and i am replacing those stuffs one by one with good ones..

1. Speakers :-
your budget is almost same like mine... I have 10k budget for 4 speakers . As you have no provision for oval speakers in verna in doors , you must find a round speakers.
there are very less models in Round that comes with 3 way - [Midrange woofer + speaker + tweeter ] most of the round speakers are 2 way that doesnt have tweeter in it.

I have searched in hertz/polk/rockford for Round 3 way. there are very few models but all of them are very high priced. In those brands you will only get 2 way speakers in 10 k budget.
Then finally i came down to Infinity kappa 63.9i -click this - Infinity - Car Audio

It's 3 way and has 75 rms and my sony amp output is 80 rms. almost matched. 5k for 2 speakers so 10k for 4 .... Done!

2. Amplifier
JBL - Product Support - GTO-504E - 280-Watt 4-Channel Full-Range Amplifier

It has 70 rms * 4 ... almost matched to the above speakers which has got 75 rms.
This amp has got every single feature that we need for speaker. It has Freq setting + low pass/high pass filter for all 4 ch + bass boost ..
you need to set your amp at high pass filter if you are using speakers and if you are using sub then low pass filter.

The another benefit of this amp is -
we have got 2 preouts from our stock head unit. Both of them are used in your front and rear speakers. you still need 1 more preout if you are planning to add subwoofer later on. To do so , you must buy an amp with preout. and this amp has got 1 preout in it. to which you can connect your subwoofer via monoamp in future.

This amp should cost 8-9 k Done !

3. Subwoofer

never buy sony sub. i have replaced my sony sub with infinity 1260w . Sony dont sound good. i still dont prefer jbl subs too. In rockford and all , good subs cost too much.
Best is to buy Infinity reference series {the one i have got is- infinity ref 1260w}
Costs - 5.3k
OR better one then - infinity kappa series - 7k

4. Monoamp

now this will be the costliest thing in your whole setup. you wont get any monoamp below 10k price except the sony monoamp [9k] which is again crp stuff.
I prefer this -http://www.jbl.com/HI-IN/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=GTO3501 should cost 11 to 12k.

Instead of buying two amps , you can buy Rockford 600-5 the one that nickandre mentioned. but then the question arise , you have only 2 preouts in head unit , from where you will get the third one for sub if you use rockford 600-5 amp.
You need some converter and all for that but it will decrease the performance.

5 Subwoofer box
Every subwoofer need different size of box. for best , before buying sub box , read the manual and see how much cubic ft. box is needed for that sub. my sub need 2 to 2.25 cubic ft area of box.
There are difeerent types of box too. --> http://www.mobileinformationlabs.com/HowTo-1Woofer-BoxPaid-New.htm

according to me - ported(vented) boxes are best as they can handle lot of frequencies then the sealed one. sealed one gives you hard punch only but they cant handle some higher frequncies. So go for vented box.

Thanx

 

[neil.vernafluidic]

Or what about replacing the speakers and getting good JBL GTO ones(all 4 of them with a budget within 10K), a JBL subwoofer and a JBL 2 channel amplifier( connecting one way to a pair of speakers,either front or rear and the other to the subwoofer ) ? I think this will be a good arrangement and will be within 20K along with wiring and labour charges.
Please excuse me as I'm a little raw when it comes to car audio so don't know much,I'm making these wild suggestions some of which are my own,some which are being used in others' cars and some which have been suggested by various car audio dealers !!

This suggestion was made to me by a car-audio dealer. He said the result will be "great".

see man, car dealer will always say result will be good. and they always prefer JBL,sony or pioneer as they get those products easily and with most profit.
car dealer made me buy pioneer speakers / pioneer component / sony sub / sony 2 ch amp .
from which I already replaced the sub and amp. Pioneer comp. i am going to sell. Pioneer speaker i am leaving it in my OHC as they have become totally crp. and will buy 4 kappa speakers now.

JBL speakers are comparable to sony and pioneer specifically the GTO series u told. you will get those for 7k for all 4 speakers not more.
And the main thing , where will you fit oval speaker in your verna.???

infinity kappa series is one step ahead and way better then GTO series.

You told JBL 2 ch... 2 ch can run either 2 speakers or 1 sub. not the both.
you should buy 4 ch first. 4 ch means -- [1] 4 speakers or [2] 2 speakers and 1 sub..
1 sub needs 2 channels.

In amplifier , u can let go in choosing a brand to some extent but for speakers and subs , u must choose good one.
so , go step by step. dont do the same mistake i did. you will end up replacing the things like me which will cost you even more.
So if you have 20k now , buy JBL 4 ch amp and kappa speakers first.

Next time buy any amp that gives at least 300 rms into 2 ch for a sub.because until you give 300 rms to your sub you wont feel proper bass in your car.
from my experience, dont listen to those dealers. just write down the model numbers of product that you want to buy and directly ask for it to them. if they dont have that product ask somewhere else but never buy haphazardly ...

Thanx
good luck

 

[vikram]

@ neil : Hey thanks dude. Thanks a lot. Hope with time, I too get some knowledge atleast about car audio like you.(You have quite a bit,trust me). I saw the Infinity kappa 63.9i speakers link you provided. First, i am thinking of switching to 4 of them. Hey, and yeah... whats the wire like thing connected to them? where does that stay after the speaker is fitted/mounted onto the car? hope it doesn't stick out/hang loose ! Then,I'll be getting a 4 channel amp and a sub (as you told me, 2 channels= sub, 2 channels= speakers). I think this will be it within 20 K (including wiring,labour). See,frankly I don't want to stretch my budget beyond 20K as I think its a bit too much for car audio.
And what's the thing with "rms" value again ? Is it that the "rms" value of the fitted components( speakers, subwoofer, amplifier ) all have to match or be atleast near perfect to get best results ?

 

[vikram]

What is the wattage/rms of OEM speakers of Verna Fluidic ? Say, if I fix Infinity kappa 63.9i speakers with wattage/rms of 75 watts and a 4 channel Amp with 65 rms x 4 , how will the sound output be ? Will the sound be clear then or with fixing speakers with wattage/rms of 65 watts and a 4 channel Amp with 65 x 4 be clear ?
What about the stock OEM speakers of Verna ? How about their watts/rms ? Is it high enough or on the lower side? Anyone who has replaced it must be having an idea !! Will 6 1/2" co-axial speakers fit in Verna ? What is difference between round and co-axial speakers ?

 

[neil.vernafluidic]

@ neil : Hey thanks dude. Thanks a lot. Hope with time, I too get some knowledge atleast about car audio like you.(You have quite a bit,trust me). I saw the Infinity kappa 63.9i speakers link you provided. First, i am thinking of switching to 4 of them. Hey, and yeah... whats the wire like thing connected to them? where does that stay after the speaker is fitted/mounted onto the car? hope it doesn't stick out/hang loose ! Then,I'll be getting a 4 channel amp and a sub (as you told me, 2 channels= sub, 2 channels= speakers). I think this will be it within 20 K (including wiring,labour). See,frankly I don't want to stretch my budget beyond 20K as I think its a bit too much for car audio.
And what's the thing with "rms" value again ? Is it that the "rms" value of the fitted components( speakers, subwoofer, amplifier ) all have to match or be atleast near perfect to get best results ?

That is nothing. the wire from amp will connect to it and it will not hang. you can put it anywhere you want. usually other speakers have those inbuilt but dont know why infinity has given wire here

i think 25k if you buy 4 ch amp and sub too.
but you have to connect your front speakers directly without any amp.[thinking]

Max output Rms value of amp[at 2 Ohm] should be matched with input Rms value of Speakers/Sub.
but it doesnt mean they should be exactly same. +/- 10 is ok. as you said near perfect.

 

[neil.vernafluidic]

What is the wattage/rms of OEM speakers of Verna Fluidic ? Say, if I fix Infinity kappa 63.9i speakers with wattage/rms of 75 watts and a 4 channel Amp with 65 rms x 4 , how will the sound output be ? Will the sound be clear then or with fixing speakers with wattage/rms of 65 watts and a 4 channel Amp with 65 x 4 be clear ?
What about the stock OEM speakers of Verna ? How about their watts/rms ? Is it high enough or on the lower side? Anyone who has replaced it must be having an idea !! Will 6 1/2" co-axial speakers fit in Verna ? What is difference between round and co-axial speakers ?

OEM speakers rms can be 50 or even below.

For 75 rms spkr like kappa , the best output rms range of amp should be 70+ .
the higher the rms better it will sound.

It's nothing but the shape- co-axial are oval in shape and round are round
Oval speakers wont be fitted in doors. if you want to put oval spkrs , u have to made a wooden plank behind your rear seat and then put them in that plank. I have custom made wooden plank in my OHC currently.
but i dont want to put those ugly planks in my verna.

i still dont have car in my hand , so cant tell you how OEM spkrs perform.
and dont get confused b/w Rms and Watts[max peak] ... both are different. it is the rms that matters not watts.

 

[vikram]

So how about this ? I will be fitting Infinity kappa 63.9i ( 4 nos. ). Will this improve the sound quality/clarity and bass of the car, i mean will it give better sound than the OEM speakers ? I'll fix the 4 channel amp and a woofer post diwali ! And yes, if i fix a 4 channel Amp now ( GTO 504 E ) and get it wired to all 4 speakers, can i fix a woofer later and switch one(2 channels) to the woofer without having to change the entire kit ? Will the HU of the fluidic support kappa 63.9i speakers and a 4 channel amp ?
DIY possible ? I would love to do it (atleast the 4 speakers) ....

 

[nickandre]

well my dealer friend said jbl amps are fairly good fro what they cost though he says there are bit of complaints of over heating. Not sure if its true. Well if you wont be occupying rears much i guess you should put a two way speaker in the rear door a 3 way may touch your door panel, Keep in mind mounting depth it shouldn't obstruct the power windows. The speakers seem to me as 5 inchers, the oem system has no clarity nor crossover for the tweeters its high on mushy bass. Go for components in front, And two 2 way in the rear neil has suggested you very good stuff. Becareful when buying rockford you can get fakes to buy from big stores and yeah they arent cheap. my dealer said 35k for a rockford 4ch amp not sure if it was in punch or the higher line. Cabling is all hidden in the side panels no wires will be seen.
vikram id advice you against a diy unless you have done it before experimenting can mess up bad
all hus support amps some have preouts some dont for which theres converters.

now heres what i have decided may change or not
components if 6 inch doesnt fit
SSPL India
rear door
INFINITY REF6532I
amp
SSPL India

 

[vikram]

well my dealer friend said jbl amps are fairly good fro what they cost though he says there are bit of complaints of over heating. Not sure if its true. Well if you wont be occupying rears much i guess you should put a two way speaker in the rear door a 3 way may touch your door panel, Keep in mind mounting depth it shouldn't obstruct the power windows. The speakers seem to me as 5 inchers, the oem system has no clarity nor crossover for the tweeters its high on mushy bass. Go for components in front, And two 2 way in the rear neil has suggested you very good stuff. Becareful when buying rockford you can get fakes to buy from big stores and yeah they arent cheap. my dealer said 35k for a rockford 4ch amp not sure if it was in punch or the higher line. Cabling is all hidden in the side panels no wires will be seen.
vikram id advice you against a diy unless you have done it before experimenting can mess up bad
all hus support amps some have preouts some dont for which theres converters.

now heres what i have decided may change or not
components if 6 inch doesnt fit
SSPL India
rear door
INFINITY REF6532I
amp
SSPL India

Whats the difference between 2-way and 3-way speakers ? What about the Infinity kappa 63.9i speakers for all 4 ? They seem good at 70 Watts. Now if i get my 4 speakers connected to a 4 channel Amp now, and later(maybe next month or so or a bit later), get a decent Sub and get 1 (2 channels) diverted for the Sub and 2 channels for the 2 speakers , will it work out ? Will i have decent sound with Infinity kappa 63.9i speakers connected with a 4 channel Amp ? If later I fix a sub, will i have to get new wiring kit ?
How do I go about the wiring for 4 speakers connected to a 4 channel Amp ? Where will it be connected from ? The HU Pre-Out ?

 

[nickandre]

a 3 way speaker has 3 drivers producing hi , mid and low ranges while two way caters to his and mid 3 ways sound better and cost more.
Infinity kappa 63.9i speakers for all 4 is a good idea but will the rear seats be occupied?alot by music lovers? if not then add a 2 way at the back. since you plan to add a woofer i suggest you take components for front and two ways at the back. component systems have a crossover and the tweeters are separate not on the same cone which will fit near your legs but the tweeters will fit in your doors just near your rear view mirrors at the corner thats where tweeters perform better.
see in this pic in the corner near the ac vent


now if later you will add a woofer and connect just 2 to the amp
you wont get good sound from the other two speakers and it would be a waste to run expensive speakers from the hu.
there are 5ch amps ill search some good ones and post here
the speakers connect directly to the amp
amp to the hu
a woofer will need a single cable to the amp.
btw im not sure but ill see if there are woofers which come with an inbuilt amp

 

[vikram]

a 3 way speaker has 3 drivers producing hi , mid and low ranges while two way caters to his and mid 3 ways sound better and cost more.
Infinity kappa 63.9i speakers for all 4 is a good idea but will the rear seats be occupied?alot by music lovers? if not then add a 2 way at the back. since you plan to add a woofer i suggest you take components for front and two ways at the back. component systems have a crossover and the tweeters are separate not on the same cone which will fit near your legs but the tweeters will fit in your doors just near your rear view mirrors at the corner thats where tweeters perform better.
see in this pic in the corner near the ac vent
View attachment 29107

now if later you will add a woofer and connect just 2 to the amp
you wont get good sound from the other two speakers and it would be a waste to run expensive speakers from the hu.
there are 5ch amps ill search some good ones and post here
the speakers connect directly to the amp
amp to the hu
a woofer will need a single cable to the amp.
btw im not sure but ill see if there are woofers which come with an inbuilt amp

Thanks a lot nick for your very detailed explanation. Well, I think for the time being, a I'll go with Infinity kappa 63.9i (for all 4). Then later, just add on a decent woofer with an inbuilt amplifier. Because I want to stress on clarity and sound quality rather than a huge amount of bass. I think Infinity kappa 63.9i speakers will do the job well. For now, I'll replace OEM speakers. Hey what about the OEM tweeters ? Don't think that needs to be replaced too !! And, well with help and advise from you guys, I'll get a decent woofer with an inbuilt Amp later.
Hope it won't be a trouble installing Woofer+Amp(inbuilt) later if i get 4 OEM speakers replaced now. And what about change in sound quality/clarity/loudness in just replacing OEM speakers with Infinity kappa 63.9i without an Amp ?? Hope it will be nice

 

[neil.vernafluidic]

So how about this ? I will be fitting Infinity kappa 63.9i ( 4 nos. ). Will this improve the sound quality/clarity and bass of the car, i mean will it give better sound than the OEM speakers ? I'll fix the 4 channel amp and a woofer post diwali ! And yes, if i fix a 4 channel Amp now ( GTO 504 E ) and get it wired to all 4 speakers, can i fix a woofer later and switch one(2 channels) to the woofer without having to change the entire kit ? Will the HU of the fluidic support kappa 63.9i speakers and a 4 channel amp ?
DIY possible ? I would love to do it (atleast the 4 speakers) ....

definately it will sound 10 times better then OEM speakers.

you can do nickandre way too. if you buy component in front and 2 way at back, it will be good too.

If you are planning to add such costly front speakers without an amp that would be waste of money.
So either buy 5 channel amp , or buy one 4 ch and later on separate amp for sub.
and you dont really want to buy seperate amp for sub and want to drive front speakers directly from HU , you can definatly do it and you can switch your 2 ch of amp later on anytime from front speakers to the sub if you wish.

u will need 1 wiring kit per 2 channels of amp. so if there is 4 ch amp then 2 wiring kit. buy scosch wiring- good one. i dont know other wiring kit brands. may be someone else can help you out for that here.
and wiring comes from HU to amp and then amp to speakers.

As you are not willing to buy 2 amps , go for 5 ch.[not sure how much it will cost]
but now you need 3 preouts and we have only 2 in HU.
so use one converter and you can make it 3 out of 2.
use converted 2 preouts for speakers and the other one for sub.

Sub with inbuilt amp is called Basslink in infinity .there are 3 models of it - > http://www.infinitysystems.com/car/products/series.aspx?SerId=BSL i have heard one of it at my dealer's shop and it sounds pretty decent. not very low not very loud.

It's lot of discussion . Now you have to decide what you want. better speakers/more bass etc. Without amp nothing would sound good.


@Nickandre

nice choices you have made. i think whole thing will cost you around 23k.
and there are woofers that comes with inbuilt amp. they are called BASSLINK.
but i dont know how good they performs.

My JBL GTO amp have never heated. instead my sony amp heats a lot.
may be it's the cheaper series JBL GT5 that your dealer is talking about.

Is that your car in that photo?

 

[nickandre]

thats what i was suggesting mate a component system it replaces the tweeter and ur speaker rs 4.5k - 8k gives superior clarity.
JBL GTO-609C like this the device you see splits vocals and hi frequencies to the tweeter which repalces the oem and the speaker which you will fit in the front door. Superb clarity there are better ones to. But i suggest you take a component system for the front. and the infinity for the rear believe me if you dont want power but clarity you may not need a woofer let me show you a clip but from a different brand these are infinity speakers
Insignia Infinity Ses Sistemi - YouTube no woofer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2fREgJYtx0

nah not my car havent got it yet maybe tomorrow or day after

 

[neil.vernafluidic]

i am going to try for hertz esk 165 or infinity 63.9i at front.
impressed by hertz...

Hertz ESK165 - YouTube

well i am bassfreak so will spend more money for bass

 

[vikram]

@ neil, @ nick : Thanks both of you guys ! Having discussed with you both so much about this stuff has certainly made me learn a "little", I again repeat a "little" about car audio. You guys seem to know quite a bit . And yeah, thanks for sharing and discussing with me and giving me time :) Yes, I believe in clarity,quality and not missing beats in my music. Not much Bass. And seeing that, from all our discussion, I still stick with Infinity kappa 63.9i ( for all 4 speakers ) with a 4 channel amp ( each speaker amplified ) . I think that will be just fine (atleast for now) ! All the connections to be done from 2 HU Pre-outs ? And I hope no wire cutting/joining !
Infinity kappa 63.9i is just the speaker right ? No tweeter with it ? That'll do .