The Concept of Making Sedans from Hatchbacks

[Marun]

The only positive stuff I find out of this is the sharing of spares.

I guess the following are the one that followed this trend.

Swift --> Dzire
Polo --> Vento
Optra SRV --> Optra Not sure about this.
Punto --> Linea
Vista --> Manza

Anything else???

PS: didn't check the list which is already posted by drivetech :)

 

[icecool2010]

From your post above, it seems that according to you-

Sedans are always made up with quality material and they are always costly, while Hatchbacks are always made up of low quality material and they are cheaper.
It may be your feeling since you own a sedan.
Hatchbacks are more popular because of the convenience of their size.
Parking, drive ability etc.

No hatchback is cheaper or less costly- Compare the prices of top model Hatchbacks like I20, Polo, Punto, Jazz, Swift,Figo, Vista they start from 6.75 L and goes up to 8.75 L (I am talking about diesel). You can definately buy a Sedan within that range at least a mid trim.

BTW, as you are not comfortable about those sedans which are based on hatchbacks, what was the reason you bought one of them?

Why don't you went for Passat? Instead of Vento? or any other stand alone Sedan?

First and Foremost - I never said sedans are always made up of quality materials. Please do not twist my post. If you have the time - I suggest you read my review of the Vento and my take on other comparable sedans.
In fact, if you would try to read my post correctly - I have stated that car makers are using some of the same materials used in hatchbacks also in sedans. (In other words - I am running down the quality of materials used in sedans).

I think you are missing the point. No need to get personal. I have nothing against hatchbacks or their owners. Wonder why you getting upset here while no one else has. You would do this forum a service by being courteous.

Hatchbacks in India have come to stay because of their small size, drivability.
The discussion here was whether it's a good idea making sedans from hatchbacks and I had merely put foward my point.

My choosing Vento is not the point of discussion but I will tell you why. I was looking only for a AT transmission sedan or even a hatchback. I20 was ruled out because of lots of transmission, rattling an other issues. I had very few choices. City AT interiors was not to my liking, Verna was ruled out and I was left only with the Vento.
But I am not disappointed with buying a vento. I plan to upgrade next year once I am comfortable driving on indian roads.

 

[jalex]

I dont like add on boots on hatchbacks to turn them into a sedan. The only exception I might have here is in the Vento's case.

 

[Vivian]

For a sedan with a boot fitted on a hatchback, one have to pay 1 lakh rupees more than it's hatchback sibling. For what we are paying 1 lakh premium. Is it just for the boot ??? I will never buy such a 'waste of money' car.

 

[drivetech4]

First and Foremost - I never said sedans are always made up of quality materials. Please do not twist my post. If you have the time - I suggest you read my review of the Vento and my take on other comparable sedans.
In fact, if you would try to read my post correctly - I have stated that car makers are using some of the same materials used in hatchbacks also in sedans. (In other words - I am running down the quality of materials used in sedans).

I think you are missing the point. No need to get personal. I have nothing against hatchbacks or their owners. Wonder why you getting upset here while no one else has. You would do this forum a service by being courteous.

Hatchbacks in India have come to stay because of their small size, drivability.
The discussion here was whether it's a good idea making sedans from hatchbacks and I had merely put foward my point.

My choosing Vento is not the point of discussion but I will tell you why. I was looking only for a AT transmission sedan or even a hatchback. I20 was ruled out because of lots of transmission, rattling an other issues. I had very few choices. City AT interiors was not to my liking, Verna was ruled out and I was left only with the Vento.
But I am not disappointed with buying a vento. I plan to upgrade next year once I am comfortable driving on indian roads.

Well nothing personal, and No offenses mate- this is a open discussion!

Just read what you have written in bold -

It was atleast acceptable if car makers derived their sedans from the hatchbacks. But they don't stop here. Since the hatchback was designed with a budget in mind - lower quality materials went into the car.

That clearly means you meant to say that Hatchbacks are designed for low cost, and the low quality material is always used for hatchbacks.

Now when they expanded it into a sedan - car makers are tempted to use some of the same materials (wherever possible) in the sedan too and thus lowering the overall quality of the sedan

Based on above statement it is meant that, because those sedans based on hatchback also comes with low quality material. And other independent sedans comes with better quality material.

 

[350Z]

I do not dislike this concept either but it should be kept in limit. Sure. It does significantly helps manufacturers for dropping down the manufacturing costs by sharing the platform as well as parts but this was basically useful for entry level sedans where the aim is to make them as much affordable as possible (To achieve this, they’re also coming up with chopped boots and what not). However, I’m not in favour of it in C-segment which should be kept away from this because the exclusivity factor is almost lost. If we compare the price of Volkswagen Vento with Honda City, in spite the latter one cost a few grand more but it still sells in better numbers and so do other stand alone models. Though, one has to also accept the fact that Vento is still performing well in the market and if people start accepting such cars in this segment, then I’m afraid that days will not be far when we will be noticing more of similar models in India, with the latest example being of upcoming Skoda Rapid.

Punto --> Linea

Fiat Punto and Linea are completely different in looks. So I don’t think they deserve to be in this list.

I support this idea. In fact the Siena was the first car from this concept launched in India. I was later joined by its sibling the Palio.

You are correct. Thanks for reminding us about it.

Drive Safe,
350Z

 

[point_city96]

I like this concept.As you can see there are some hatches with a boot as in the case of vento which look very good,but the price difference between the polo and vento is very high,where as the difference between say vista and manza or etios and liva or swift and swift deire is less.And does these cheaper ones look good? But I have to admit that to my eyes etios look very good.

 

[cooldhaya]

I would say i am neutral in this case , not that it bothers me , i don't mind buying a sedan derived from an hatchback. But in some cases i feel the exclusivity of the sedan gets lowered , see for example the new Jetta looks very much like Vento from front view but costs almost double the amount of Vento! Also by doing this practice the creativity of manufacturers stop , all the cars in their stable begin to look similar. For example already i feel all the Bmw sedans are sharing a similar front view and so does VW.

 

[S Class]

I would say i am neutral in this case , not that it bothers me , i don't mind buying a sedan derived from an hatchback. But in some cases i feel the exclusivity of the sedan gets lowered , see for example the new Jetta looks very much like Vento from front view but costs almost double the amount of Vento! Also by doing this practice the creativity of manufacturers stop , all the cars in their stable begin to look similar. For example already i feel all the Bmw sedans are sharing a similar front view and so does VW.

It is absolutely true that the sedan gets lowered when derived from hatch. The common perception becomes that the buyer couldn't offered proper sedan, hence the hatch derived sedan.

I also agree with Jetta & vento. I never liked BMW, nor did Audi appealed to me either. The Audi too look the same (only Audi R8 stands out).
Even the SUVs, Q5/Q7 look the same, just like the case of BMW X3/X5.

It is for this reason that I love Mercedes-Benz . Not only all cars are different in the family but even when new version of the same class comes, it is different than older one. Eg. Merc E Class earlier had round headlights & squarish tail light, now the headlights are squarish & taillight has curves. Same is the case with just launched new C Class. The daddy of all Mercs, S Class too gets different look everytime it is upgraded.

Hence, my take is this:-

Maruti for lower end, Honda at mid level & Mercedes-Benz at top end. These are the only car makers which have distinct identity to each of its vehicle, which I personally like a lot .

** If Nissan can get Sunny from Micra with all different look, why can't the rest do the same with the same platform ?

 

[cooldhaya]

Instead of following this concept the manufacturers can share some spares and parts internally which wont be a problem for many. Share the platform but change the looks. Hyundai managed it well with Accent CRDI , Verna CRDI and Getz CRDI. Though all the cars shared the same engine each of them looked different.

 

[Jazzy]

Platform Sharing - Good or bad?!

Dear All,
I am not a great fan of platform sharing. I understand that it saves a lot of cost for manufacturers but they just aren’t doing enough with the same platform. Take a look at the Polo/vento, Vento/rapid, Micra/pulse, Micra/sunny, Liva/Etios & the list goes on. Let alone blood brothers, even first cousins like the Vento/Rapid, Micra/Pulse simply don’t do justice to their credentials & pedigree. All that separates the Micra & Pulse is the badge & some engine tuning. The Vento & Rapid are the same inside if you take out the badge! Where is the identity of the vehicle? Just investing in a platform & then going on widening/shortening/lengthening it will not increase the product life cycle in today’s market. What we need are fresh ideas! Each & every Honda car has a distinct personality. Look at Ford’s, one Ford concept- it saves on costs but it works too. Even Hyundai’s new design language is fast catching everyone’s fancy. Even the luxury carmakers are taking it easy it seems to me. Only hardcore auto enthusiasts can differentiate a 3 from a 5 series or an A4 from an A6 from a distance- the logic of maintaining the family look is all right but to what extent? A person spending 50 lakhs doesn’t want to be mistaken to be in a 30lakh car!

What do you guys think?!!!

Cheers

Jazzy

 

[cooldhaya]

Re: Platform Sharing - Good or bad?!

I think we had a thread before discussing this. Even i am against platform sharing , it brings down the creativity and innovation of the manufacturers. But we can't do anything , they are done for a reason and they will continue doing it because these techniques fetches them quick money.

 

[350Z]

Note: Threads Merged.

Drive Safe,
350z

 

[Umang]

Re: Platform Sharing - Good or bad?!

I am not a great fan of platform sharing. I understand that it saves a lot of cost for manufacturers but they just aren’t doing enough with the same platform. Take a look at the Polo/vento, Vento/rapid, Micra/pulse, Micra/sunny, Liva/Etios & the list goes on. Let alone blood brothers, even first cousins like the Vento/Rapid, Micra/Pulse simply don’t do justice to their credentials & pedigree. All that separates the Micra & Pulse is the badge & some engine tuning. The Vento & Rapid are the same inside if you take out the badge! Where is the identity of the vehicle? Just investing in a platform & then going on widening/shortening/lengthening it will not increase the product life cycle in today’s market. What we need are fresh ideas! Each & every Honda car has a distinct personality. Look at Ford’s, one Ford concept- it saves on costs but it works too.

i fully support you buddy! i also agree with vivian who buy sedan from hatch are fools? because they only get extra boot for more than lakh rupees. worst model of platform sharing in renault pulse.

 

[autosafari]

Re: Platform Sharing - Good or bad?!

i fully support you buddy! i also agree with vivian who buy sedan from hatch are fools? because they only get extra boot for more than lakh rupees. worst model of platform sharing in renault pulse.

Those who buy a sedan derived from a hatchback may be fools. And there are so many fools in this forum including me.

But our decision to go for a sedan type was not that foolish.

Take Manza for example.

Diesel Manza is 90 HP wheras Vista is 75 HP
More Torque than Vista
Wheel base is more in Manza and there for better stability.
Ride Quality of Manza is better than Vista.
Width is more.
Bigger and wider tyres
Better stance and road presence.

So it is not just a boot attached.

I am sure it should be the case with most of other makes also.