New Manza Creeching & Refusing To Climb Uphill: Loss of Power

[gypsy]

This video is a test to simulate of what happened to me on 6/6/2011
--------------------------------------------
I was traveling to nainital in the morning driving carefully the moment we reached haldwani i started feeling some drag and loss of brakes since we were running quite late and hungry too decided to take a break till that time nothing major problem was felt except braking. After having ten min break somewhere at jeolikot started again had just gone by few kms we could feel break shoe burning and smelling. Since the ac was off glasses down we could smell it which means this was happening since much before and was causing break loss.

Now i had no way to stop on upgoing road midway with two families and kids. I decided to drive slowly but reach a spot where I can halt the car...before i could halt the car worst happened. On sharp left u bend the car had sudden loss of power the car failed to move forward and car behind me had trouble understanding the situation. I reved up the engine in 1st gear to 3000rpm but the car lost power didnt move forward and started going back. As if the car had no grip on the road. I somehow managed to reverse the car without having any control for 30 sec. All passengers got down and then i moved the car few meters and stopped. The left front brake shoe was smelling and rim was too hot to touch.

Called a taxi from the hotel and sent them in taxi. Had to wait for the brakes to cool down then drove up slowly to nainital with 3-4 stops in between.

I asked the local taxi guys as to what can be the problem, they said it seems to be the clutch plate failure in a NEW MANZA.

See this video & tell me is it some kind of clutch failure?
The car refuses to move forward with a punch, when fully loaded it just wont move up & started coming back on highway.
YouTube - ‪Tata manza power loss, refusing to climb 45° road‬‏

Another video shot from outside showing how miserable the car is refusing to have power even at 3000rpm 1st gear, mind you I am the only one who is sitting in the car so no boot luggage nor any passenger in this.

YouTube - ‪Tata manza creeching & refusing to climb uphill, loss of power‬‏

I have driven plenty of times on these roads with my old Indica 2002 model & never had ever any clutch failure upto 1,10000kms after which I sold it.

I have been driving car last 22yrs & have been upto rohtang pass (twice crossed it to reach kelang & further leh) have crossed passes in Ladhak & know how to drive in mountains but the new manza failed me on a very similar roads in nainital.

I never drive with foot on clutch (this was the 1st lesson I got many yrs ago)I drive by accelerator so if you are in correct gear you will not need much of braking in the hills.

Driving down hill I never go above 40km in 3rd gear so you can get an idea how I drive.

Need opinion on this as the car is going to the workshop tomorrow. The car has serious misalignment issue as few members may be aware & I posted the video showing that too till date no solution has been found.

 

[mastersquall]

Re: New Manza creeching & refusing to climb uphill, loss of power

what clutch giving up so early .now i think dealer has given you bad stock car

 

[ilango[speed thirst]]

Re: New Manza creeching & refusing to climb uphill, loss of power

Was it clutch burning smell?

rims do become hot in usual driving. too hot is bad.

clutch failure in new manza!!!.

manza is sluggish. ours was so sluggish in bangalore drive. in plains it was good. in some hilly kind of areas the car struggled. i was full on throttle after some few sec of engaging gear and it was roaring so slowly.


repost asap the problem . I feel it may be the case with ours too.
with full load it struggles to climb the steeps in highway. hmm rather struggles , it was sluggish , damn slow pace to pick up the speed.

May be we are in the begining of the problem. But with no load the car was normal . good pick up , enough torque thing etc.

 

[350Z]

Re: New Manza Creeching & Refusing To Climb Uphill; Loss of Power

Gypsy, I'm sorry to learn about the frequent issues cropping up with your brand New Manza. This is either a result with particular ill-manufactured unit / entire lot or else Tata Motors has severe engineering fault, which they must rectify before the problem goes out of the hands and people are forced to suspect on their quality after reading similar stories. Let us know what after sales support has to say. BTW, You have done a good job of capturing the videos.

Drive Safe,
350Z

 

[dodge_v1per]

Re: New Manza Creeching & Refusing To Climb Uphill; Loss of Power

I decided to drive slowly but reach a spot where I can halt the car...before i could halt the car worst happened. On sharp left u bend the car had sudden loss of power the car failed to move forward and car behind me had trouble understanding the situation.

this must be scary situation dude ..too bad of TATA A$$!!

 

[350Z]

Re: New Manza Creeching & Refusing To Climb Uphill; Loss of Power

By the way, this indeed appears to be the case of clutch failure. The same has happened with my car when it's clutch went kaput (After 7+ Years though). It's very risky to drive uphill and sometimes even on flat roads too since the pick-up is almost next to none.

Drive Safe,
350Z

 

[gypsy]

Re: New Manza creeching & refusing to climb uphill, loss of power

what clutch giving up so early .now i think dealer has given you bad stock car

To me its unbelievable, the car has just been 1st serviced before starting the trip@ 1100kms on odo.

Right upto kathgodam there is no steep climb at all, only after 15-20 kms there starts the steep bends having are 30-60° inclined roads, which means the car gave up in its 1st ever maiden run on the hills of approx 10-15kms of hill driving that too by a driver who travels approx 3000-4000kms per year in the mountains.

I have been to much higher places with much difficult roads in Uttranchal such as Gangotri/yamnotri, Jalori pass in Himachal @10000feet with continuous stretch of road having 5-7 kms distance at an of 45-60°.

Was it clutch burning smell?

Frankly I have never ever encountered a smell like this as in the cars I have driven we never ever faced this issue upto 1.25000 kms so I cant be sure if its the clutch plate burning, to my understanding the clutch plate is inside the engine so wondering if it can smell that strong.

Never ever got a clutch plate replaced so don't even know how it looks like, is it made of some fiber/rubber material so it can burn due to excessive heat?

The point to be noted is that the car runs perfectly fine in the plain roads with good torque & I never ever need to go above 2500rpm, ideally I drive within 1800-2200rpm. No one would believe me if they drive this car with me in plains but luckily I had 1 person who accompanied with me right from Nainital to delhi & he was too surprised that how come the car cant produce power in 1st gear to move up in the hills where as on plain highway its runs smooth except for that left pulling problem.

 

[ilango[speed thirst]]

Re: New Manza Creeching & Refusing To Climb Uphill; Loss of Power

clutch plate is combination of metals.

clutch continuously rotates and keeps rubbing itself with the cover assy .
engage and disengage makes it free and engage with gears.

bad clutch or half pedal driving eats lot of clutch.

the same action in higher rpm creates a clutch smell in a stand still car or suffering car as your situation.

did tass find your problem?
i guess it must be a minor one or faulty clutch(weird to have this in new car)

 

[gypsy]

Re: New Manza Creeching & Refusing To Climb Uphill; Loss of Power

Thanks for the details of clutch plate.
I am taking the car to the dealer workshop but I am apprehensive about letting them open the engine to find the problem & replace the clutch plate, its a brand new car & from day 1 its showing the problems which they are not able to solve it, their treatment is more like band aid on a wound.

this must be scary situation dude ..too bad of TATA A$$!!

Scarry as hell imagine the car reverse without any control on a hill having 3 kids & 4 adults luckily I was not on the valley side else this could have been fatal too. I revsered teh car with only steering control, brakes for that moment didnt work perfectly & the car had no power to move forward.

 

[sumitkalindi]

Re: New Manza Creeching & Refusing To Climb Uphill; Loss of Power

The left front brake shoe was smelling and rim was too hot to touch.

Your car should be pulling to the left for sometime, for this to happen. Was it? Please get the brakes checked and the brake kits replaced, if necessary. Better, insist on getting them replaced. Also I believe Manza has a cable actuated clutch, before replacing the clutch get that cable adjustments checked.

Hoping the Best of luck to you.

 

[Akash]

Re: New Manza Creeching & Refusing To Climb Uphill; Loss of Power

I would suggest you to mail a copy of complaint to the higher officials. Such an issue which could have proved fatal is not at all acceptable from a new car.

 

[Blackdiesel]

Re: New Manza Creeching & Refusing To Climb Uphill; Loss of Power

@Gypsy> According to my understanding of diesel engines>>

The combination of the slower-revving, high-torque diesel motor, and the heavy chassis of the Manza, means that performance will be at its worst when climbing hills, particularly from a slow or standing start.

From the video u have posted, I can see that u leave the clutch 1s the car attains little motion and press the accelerator fully,, well I feel there is something wrong with that drive method.

I would suggest to drive this way>>

When you are holding the car in an inclined with the hand-brake on, switch to the 1st gear and hold the rpm past 2000. Now release the H-brake and the clutch simultaneously, but keep pumping the clutch inorder to maintain at steady rpm upto 2000 rpm, that is when u release the clutch the 1st time and when car starts moving forward the rpm will drop and after a while the rpm falls dead and the engine stops,[ this is what is happening in your case] to avoid that drop keep pressing the clutch again giving the pumping action. This action will give motion to the wheels in a pulse form.

As far as i think there isn't much of any part malfunctioning here, Just an example to explain this:

Consider a old force motor powered Ambassador and old izuzu powered one, with both engines similar configuration on papers the later izuzu engine drives uphills very easily compared to the force motor engines. This is plainly due the way the engines are tuned to perform. Its surprising to notice that force motor engines has greater top speeds compared to the izuzu engine Ambassador.

P.S. This solely my understanding towards the problem, May not be true in actual.

regards

Blackdiesel

 

[gypsy]

Re: New Manza Creeching & Refusing To Climb Uphill; Loss of Power

I would suggest you to mail a copy of complaint to the higher officials. Such an issue which could have proved fatal is not at all acceptable from a new car.

Anyone have higher official's name & email id, the 2 emails I sent to customercare@tatamotors.com have resulted in getting a call from Tata CSM gurgaon who asked me to take the car to Oberai motors for sorting out alignment issues. My understanding is that workshops are meant for repair not for manufacturing, they are not capable of finding & correcting faults due to manufacturing.

I have been talking to Ms. Bhawna at CSM & have asked 3-4 times to email me official reply but nothing has happened. In worst case scnario I would have to visit the gurgaon office personally & take charge myself.

I posted on facebook page & have been assured that problem will be sorted out soon but that's just lip service.
https://www.facebook.com/IndigoManza/posts/161954173870835

https://www.facebook.com/IndigoManza/posts/171072462952929

 

[pradzz]

Re: New Manza Creeching & Refusing To Climb Uphill; Loss of Power

i havent fully read all the replies. i too faced the same issue with my brand new linea, jus coming out of the service center(had been there for some work) later i found out that one of the rubber tubing of the turbo had ruptured. i do have a pic of it. got it replaced under warranty. this can be caused due to air bubble in the manufacturing of the part pls get it checked.

 

[gypsy]

Re: New Manza Creeching & Refusing To Climb Uphill; Loss of Power

@Blackdiesel
Let me give a detailed description of those 30sec hell of time as detailed as possible.

The car had no problem since morning we started at 5.30am on 6/6/2011 it had good power build up past 2000 & I max drove it in range of 2000-2200 range approx.

We reached haldwani I started feeling some drag and loss of brakes, further up from kathgodam the real hills started & the car was refusing to move in 3rd gear @2200rpm, hence I shifted to 2nd gear to build the momentum @ 3000rpm & then shifted to 3rd gear but the can just got slowing down as if I am in the wrong gear. After 2-3 tries I felt there is something wrong with air filter & will check it at nainital bcoz we were suppose to go to Munshiyari which is much higher & more steep curves will be crossed on way.

We took a break till that time nothing major problem was felt except braking & less power After having ten min break somewhere around jeolikot started again had just gone by few kms we could feel break shoe burning and smelling. Since now the ac was off glasses down we could smell it which means this was happening since much before and was causing break & power loss.
(2 days before I had reported that the brakes shoe is making noise when I apply brake & something is dragging & making noise while running, but Oberai motors Noida after checking said no its not the case)

Now I had no way to stop on upgoing road midway with two families and kids. I decided to drive slowly but reach a spot where I can halt the car. Before I could halt the car worst happened.

On sharp left u bend there were a traffic halt so I had to halt too when I started the car had sudden loss of power & the car failed to move forward and car behind me had trouble understanding the situation.

Knowing from past few kms drive I knew the car is having some power loss hence I did the following.

1.Revved up the engine in 1st gear to 2800-3000rpm
2.handbrake was gently disengaged
3.gently took the left feet off the clutch fully
(handbrake & clutch were let off in opposite direction gradually while maintaining the rpm which according to me was on the higher side owing to the power loss which I was facing while coming up)

As anticipated the car didn't move forward instead the car lost power didn't move forward and started going back as hand brake was disengaged & my right foot was on accelerator , then engine got shut off.

4. Took of the right foot from accelerator & then braked full but the car had sudden brake failure that hand brake didnt work either & In my presence of mind all I could think of in that moment was forget all theories & apply common sense to what can be done now.

Luckily the car behind me after few seconds removed his car from behind & I let the manza move reverse & steered to the left side. The worst was still not over I unlock the car doors but the 2 ladies & 3 kids sitting behind could not open the doors as I had engaged the child lock for safety so had to be opened the gate from outside & then take them out from right door as the left door was not in a position to be opened since car was only 1 feet away from the hill.

I felt so ashamed bcoz of all this, I am not an over confident person/driver but I am sure about my driving skills hence was driving in the hills. Manza shook my confidence or rather should say jolted my confidence.

All passangers got down and then I moved the car few meters and stopped. The left front brake shoe was smelling and rim was too hot to touch.

Called a taxi from the hotel and sent them in taxi. When the taxi came(a pvt swift car) I took the car down & tested swift on the same bend it just responded as a car should respond to the clutch action so it concluded that something is indeed wrong with the brakes or clutch or may be both in my new manza.
I asked the local driver as to what can be the problem, he said it seems to be the clutch plate failure in a NEW MANZA.

Had to wait for the brakes to cool down then drove up slowly to nainital with 3 stops in between to let the brakes cool down they were getting hot with my driving uphill where I am not even needing to apply the brakes. At last when I reached nainital high court u bend the same problem happened & the car refused to move up with a single person no load at all.

So I decided to alter my technique & this time I kept my foot on the clutch (not a recommended method as it will burn the clutch) & kept it pumping & not let it go at one go the car still could not move up at 2000rpm & then I revved up to 3000rpm & that worked to move forward & I then stopped the car at the side of Manu maharani hotel. Left the car to cool down for 1 hour then took it up again the steep hill but with a very sluggish engine power.

I must tell you here that just past new year I have driven on same roads on 30th Dec 2010 with snow fall happening & ice on the roads where tyres are bound to loose traction due to ice formation, but my old Indica V2 2002 model never failed me even at 100,000 kms on odo, climbed the roads without a hitch.

To my knowledge diesel vehicle have zero tolerance with clutch so its important that we don't rev up when foot on paddle as it will not pass on the power to the wheels. Best example I can give is fully loaded trucks on hills moving in 1st gear with full revving up & not using the clutch.

After this descriptive post if you or someone else still feels that my driving method is wrong I am ready to listen & be corrected, after all my life will depend on running this car smoothly both for my professional work & my vacations.

By the way there has been a meeting in CSM gurgaon office where GMs of other Tata workshop were called in to discuss this particular case & I have been asked to take the car to Urmil Motors tomorrow morning.