Is Your Vehicle E20 Fuel Compliant?
- Thread Starter mayankdixit
- Start date
Thread Starter
#17
It looks like it's very difficult to convert a car engine flex fuel compliant just by using a small kit . Lot more parts need changing.
I raised query with all three PSU oil companies regarding the ethanol ratio in their premium fuels. Yet to get any response from them.
Thread Starter
#19
I can't understand why so much secrecy around the exact constituents. It should be openly displayed on web for any one to access.
Biggest puzzle is why are all the OEMs totally silent on this topic. Why are they not shouting from the rooftop against it. After all it's their engines which are going to get damaged, isn't it ?
What am I missing here ?
Biggest puzzle is why are all the OEMs totally silent on this topic. Why are they not shouting from the rooftop against it. After all it's their engines which are going to get damaged, isn't it ?
What am I missing here ?
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Thread Starter
#20
Some facts understood so far:
1) Ethanol actually has lower energy per unit volume than petrol. Means 1 ml of petrol is more energy dense than 1ml ethanol. E20 petrol will have a fuel efficiency of 5 to 7 per cent less than pure petrol.
2) Just to explain, any car running on pure ethanol will deliver a fuel economy 30 to 35 percent less than a pure petrol vehicle. Moreover the power and launch and explosivity when starting movement, will reduce with ethanol.
3) Current E10 compatible vehicles cannot take more than a 10 per cent blend as there are material compatibility concerns with parts that come in contact with fuel.
4) There are design and material changes required to adapt to E20 fuel.Rubber and plastic,hose pipes and washers and injectors may get damaged with E20. Metals may not be affected.
5) Indian auto industry is still working to implement E20 material compatibility for new vehicles from April 2023 onwards.
6) Petrol PSUs have still not made it clear that will they provide separate E10 dispensers from April 2023 onwards for cars which are E10 dependent.This is very worrisome.
1) Ethanol actually has lower energy per unit volume than petrol. Means 1 ml of petrol is more energy dense than 1ml ethanol. E20 petrol will have a fuel efficiency of 5 to 7 per cent less than pure petrol.
2) Just to explain, any car running on pure ethanol will deliver a fuel economy 30 to 35 percent less than a pure petrol vehicle. Moreover the power and launch and explosivity when starting movement, will reduce with ethanol.
3) Current E10 compatible vehicles cannot take more than a 10 per cent blend as there are material compatibility concerns with parts that come in contact with fuel.
4) There are design and material changes required to adapt to E20 fuel.Rubber and plastic,hose pipes and washers and injectors may get damaged with E20. Metals may not be affected.
5) Indian auto industry is still working to implement E20 material compatibility for new vehicles from April 2023 onwards.
6) Petrol PSUs have still not made it clear that will they provide separate E10 dispensers from April 2023 onwards for cars which are E10 dependent.This is very worrisome.
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Reply from BPCL:
Reply from HPCL:
Reply from HPCL:
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Thread Starter
#22
Okay that clears one doubt.Thank you.
They also say that currently it 5 to 10%. So some interiors may still be receiving 5%. Lucky for those places.
They also say that currently it 5 to 10%. So some interiors may still be receiving 5%. Lucky for those places.
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As far as I searched around, all the fuels come with ~10% ethanol, be it regular, or speed/speed 97(BP), XP 95/XP100 (indian oil), Power/Power99. The only difference is octane rating and a few additives.
Using a 100 octane on an activa will surely destroy the engine in the long run as the engine wont be designed to withstand the additional heat.
Using a 100 octane on an activa will surely destroy the engine in the long run as the engine wont be designed to withstand the additional heat.
Damn. Guess we have no better options then what is made available to us. 
Well I did some research again and people around different forums say higher octane fuel doesn't effect the temperature or it may run cooler in some engines because of its ability to sustain high levels compression and heat before it ignites. High compression engines require high octane fuel to prevent premature ignition and engine knocking. However, low compression engines won't benefit much from high octane because there is no threat of engine knock taking place but performance improvement we see is because of the additives used in the premium fuel removes the carbon deposits. The same can be achieved by using normal fuel and adding fuel additives once a in while.
Higher octane=higher running temperature? fallacy?
Does Higher Octane Fuel Burn Cooler?
Which Octane runs cooler??
Well I did some research again and people around different forums say higher octane fuel doesn't effect the temperature or it may run cooler in some engines because of its ability to sustain high levels compression and heat before it ignites. High compression engines require high octane fuel to prevent premature ignition and engine knocking. However, low compression engines won't benefit much from high octane because there is no threat of engine knock taking place but performance improvement we see is because of the additives used in the premium fuel removes the carbon deposits. The same can be achieved by using normal fuel and adding fuel additives once a in while.
Higher octane=higher running temperature? fallacy?
Does Higher Octane Fuel Burn Cooler?
Which Octane runs cooler??
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Thread Starter
#25
So far these are the cars which are already E20 compliant:
New i10 Nios
New verna
Toyota Ganza,Urban cruiser
New Tata Tiago,punch, Altroz, Nexon
New Ignis, New Baleno,Vitara
All BMWs 2023
All Mercs 2023
Skoda Kushaq,Slavia new 2023
New Volkswagen Virtus,other current models like Taigun 2023
I request members to add to this list so that we may know the present status of market. It will help Members before taking buying decisions.
New i10 Nios
New verna
Toyota Ganza,Urban cruiser
New Tata Tiago,punch, Altroz, Nexon
New Ignis, New Baleno,Vitara
All BMWs 2023
All Mercs 2023
Skoda Kushaq,Slavia new 2023
New Volkswagen Virtus,other current models like Taigun 2023
I request members to add to this list so that we may know the present status of market. It will help Members before taking buying decisions.
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Thread Starter
#26
No one is paying attention to the warranty aspect of new cars. In actuality if you buy a new car today and just tomorrow if something goes wrong in the car engine, maybe even some manufacturing defect, you will be left hanging !!
Why, because your warranty is null and void. Because it's specifically mentioned in the manual if you fill the wrong fuel then you are responsible for it, not the OEM.
E20 if you fill in a new car today, which is Only E10 compliant then your warranty is null and void.
So think twice before splurging money on new car if it's only E10 compliant.
Or choose from the list of cars given above.
Why, because your warranty is null and void. Because it's specifically mentioned in the manual if you fill the wrong fuel then you are responsible for it, not the OEM.
E20 if you fill in a new car today, which is Only E10 compliant then your warranty is null and void.
So think twice before splurging money on new car if it's only E10 compliant.
Or choose from the list of cars given above.
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These are the fuel recommendation screenshots taken from Swift Dzire Tour S and Grand Vitara manuals. Former is E10 compliant and latter is E20 but it sounds like they haven't done much changes to the internals. May be just a ECU update, a sensor for ethanol content and some test drive with E20 fuel to ensure it runs (No matter what happens in long term) and let owners decide on drivability and/or fuel economy of their vehicle. "The vehicle may also be plied with blend of no more then 20% ethanol". This means the manufacture hasn't done throughout analyze of E20's ill effect on engine parts so they used word "may" instead of "can" and does "plied" means we cannot use E20 regularly as it can deteriorate some parts? Damn, these companies have become so incompetent and only care about sales. They are least bothered about products they sell or the durability of that product.
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Thread Starter
#28
People are getting confused between octane rating and percentage of ethanol in fuel.
By increasing ethanol content, octane rating of the fuel can be altered, but ethanol mixing and octane rating (RON 95) are NOT one and same thing. You can have a higher RON even without ethanol ( E0)
By increasing ethanol content, octane rating of the fuel can be altered, but ethanol mixing and octane rating (RON 95) are NOT one and same thing. You can have a higher RON even without ethanol ( E0)
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Yes sir, people are getting XP95 as they think it has low ethanol but it is misconception because ethanol can also increase octane rating. i.e E85 (85% ethanol) is 108 octane!
Soon I will be checking percentage of ethanol content in regular and XP95 petrol and post pictures or video here. Method as follows: Pour 100ml petrol in a 100ml measuring jar and add 10ml of water. Mix it well and keep it stable for 24 hours. Next day we'll see clear liquid being settled on the bottom of the jar. In that 10ml is the water we added and anything above (upto the petrol line) shall be ethanol + additives.
There are plenty videos on Youtube about separating ethanol from petrol but do note that octane rating will be dropped drastically so we have to add octane boosters. People who use chainsaw, lawnmower and etc machines (small petrol engines having carburetor), remove ethanol from fuel before using it but for car and bike owners this method is not feasible and too risky.
Soon I will be checking percentage of ethanol content in regular and XP95 petrol and post pictures or video here. Method as follows: Pour 100ml petrol in a 100ml measuring jar and add 10ml of water. Mix it well and keep it stable for 24 hours. Next day we'll see clear liquid being settled on the bottom of the jar. In that 10ml is the water we added and anything above (upto the petrol line) shall be ethanol + additives.
There are plenty videos on Youtube about separating ethanol from petrol but do note that octane rating will be dropped drastically so we have to add octane boosters. People who use chainsaw, lawnmower and etc machines (small petrol engines having carburetor), remove ethanol from fuel before using it but for car and bike owners this method is not feasible and too risky.
Thread Starter
#30
It seems my fears are coming true. All along I was getting signals that premium fuel has even higher % of ethanol. It seems this was true all along. Today just on a whim, I filled Indian Oils' XTRA PREMIUM petrol in my Figo. Now the car engine instead of getting smooth has started misfiring badly. On complaining to the manager,he repeated the same above quoted line.He simply said it's not meant for my car. And mind you this time the pump and the manager were different.
Idling is normal but misfiring on acceleration. Worsens if accelerated hard.
Luckily it just 5 litres petrol. I will fill up the tank with normal petrol , dilute the premium portion and see.
Idling is normal but misfiring on acceleration. Worsens if accelerated hard.
Luckily it just 5 litres petrol. I will fill up the tank with normal petrol , dilute the premium portion and see.
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