Force Trax Gurkha or Mahindra Thar - Which is Better Off-Roader?


Which is the best Off-roader

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#121
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Sam Dinkar

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TSIVipul said:
Simple as it looks, you can't expect a vehicle with a snorkel on the top or a soft top to have some leather interiors.
Giving beige in Thar or Gurkha means one will have to carry a separate bottle for washing hands during off road events before they touch the interiors.
Better quality interiors!! Haha, I believe that anything that can stay at its place during off roading is good.
In other words, for a bare bone offroader, the interiors are acceptable.
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No one is asking for leather/beige interiors; all that is being said is these vehicles could do with better quality plastics with good fit and finish and easy ergonomics.

I can understand the hard work that goes with giving life to such vehicles and I also empathize with the severe constraints under which manufacturers have to work in order to give us vehicles like these (CMVR sword, inventories, low volumes, line bottlenecks, costing, to name a few) and hence my heart goes out when I criticize, say, the dashboard of the Thar that seems to have been made out of melted polyethylene or the glovebox lid of the Gurkha that has a full centimetre of gap at its edge when shut, but at the end of the day I do concede that someone who is spending almost a million rupees on a vehicle does not deserve to be shortchanged like this, irrespective of the constraints faced by the manufacturers.

If I had a million rupees spare, would I buy a Thar/Gurkha? Yes sir. Ten times out of nine.
 
#122
Dr Mohan

Dr Mohan

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Sam Dinkar said:
What's the crawl ratio of the new Gurkha? With an axle ratio of 4.3, I have serious doubt that its crawl ratio would not better the crawl ratio of the erstwhile MM540s. How I wish it came with a 48 or even 50 crawl ratio. Slow 'n steady; like a tortoise!
Sam, let go of your apprehensions[:)].
The crawl of the new Gurkha is very good ,much better than that of the older version. Many reasons for this phenomenon: 1) Better power 2) Even though the gear ratio is 4.3 :1 , the final transmission is not very much affected since the "tire sizes" have reduced . If I were to put 33 " MT on the older Gurkha ,my crawl would fall appreciably and if I were to put a 36" ,my older Gurkha would stop crawling. The tire sizes have to be matched to the gear ratios. In the newer Gurkha ,although the gear ratio is 4.3:1 the final transmission wouldnt be far different since the tire sizes have been downgraded.

So they have forced the rear unburstable Merc differential into retirement. For reasons of cost perhaps? Bad move. Boooooooo!! Any idea what OEM are they fitting now in its place?

That indeed is a downside. I think we should not comment on the sturdiness of these yet ,since no one has tested them on the fields .

Your comments on the possibility of the power assist snapping the front CV joints when the front wheels are stuck?
This has been a common problem with many Gurkha owners. Indiscriminate use of the Differential lockers does create greater stress on the front axle especially left sided and can break . In all better to avoid the usage of the front lockers.

How well/unwell has the clutch of your Gurkha held up over all these years of use and abuse?
Had no issues with the clutch so far and I can say that most Gurkha owners hadnt a single problem related to the clutch

Have you had to make any repairs to the IFS of your Gurkha? If yes, what were the costs involved?
Sam, my Gurkha has made many a ascent while negotiating climbs and there are innumerable instances where the front wheels were more than 1 feet in the air and landed with a thud, but never ever had I to repair ,replace the front suspension assembly.

How is the performance of the Gurkha in slush will all that weight bogging it down? I suppose the lighter Mahindra jeeps would do better in this regard, diff locks apart of course?
Sam ,let me narrate to you a small incident.
Our Offrroading group had organized a Pan-India offroading event called as the "M-Cube" in 2012. The Day 1 was a slush-drag race,which saw atleast 25 participants ,jeeps ,gypsies and a lone Gurkha ( Owned by my friend Hemant Chaturvedi). Hemant is new to offroading and was his first ever offroading participation. He too decided to enter the drag race . Many seniors advised to stay away from this , since the Gurkha is a heavy vehicle. Hemant argued that since he had already paid the money and since there was the recovery team ,why not give it a try... TO everyones surprise Hemant finished 3rd in the race ,just a few seconds behind the second ,experienced jeeper.

LSPV and twin pot callipers on the Gurkha get my vote over the horrendous brakes on the Thar CRDe. Your take?

Braking is good and even ,had no issues with it.

One of our Moderators TD'd the Gurkha and commented that you have to be a Dara Singh (RIP) to operate the transfer case lever. True? Why? Also, I have heard that some Gurkhas (IDIs?) did come with hydraulic transfer cases while the new Gurkha comes with the mechanical one. True?

Lol ,Sam I liked the joke about the "gear shift" but it aint true. Yes the IDI Gurkhas equipped with OM 616 had hydraulic lockers ,the newer ones have cabled operated lockers. The former are difficult to service ,the latter are easier.

With your inputs, I hope this thread starts looking like an off road course.
Keep us updated. Thanks!
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I would post 2 videos ,one showing the Gurkha in slush and the other one showing my friends wife offroading in a Gurkha ( for the gear-shift ,Dara Singh story)

Dr Mohan said:
[/B]
I would post 2 videos ,one showing the Gurkha in slush and the other one showing my friends wife offroading in a Gurkha ( for the gear-shift ,Dara Singh story)
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Here is the video of Anu,my friend Rahul Roy's wife ,driving the Gurkha over obstacles and a steep decline. This was her first offroad venture first-hand.

Beginers Luck with Trax Gurkha on a Sand Hill. - YouTube
 
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#123
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Sam Dinkar

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Thanks for the replies. And just look at her praying before descending the slope in the first go:lol!:.

I still have doubts about the crawl. In most youtube videos of the new Gurkha, one could see almost all drivers hitting the brake while descending the slope at Force Motors test track and the same was corroborated by Iron Rock after his test drive. Would love to drive/buy one but no test drive vehicle is available.

How well have the interiors held up to abuse? What about service and spares at a city like Bombay (I would like to believe that scheduled servicing would be pretty economical)? Any rust issues? Have you made any long highway trips? Is the NVH bearable at 80-100kmph range? Would love to know the fuel efficiency in city, highway, and 4x4 mode.

Thanks again[cheers]. Please consider starting a thread to narrate your experiences.
 
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#124
Dr Mohan

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Sam Dinkar;

Thanks for the replies. And just look at her praying before descending the slope in the first go:lol!:.
This happens with everyone ,happened with me too !

I still have doubts about the crawl. In most youtube videos of the new Gurkha, one could see almost all drivers hitting the brake while descending the slope ....
Sam ,the vehicle crawls up like a spider ,but the descend is faster because of the higher gear ratios and less rolling resistance offered by the smaller tires as compared to the 7.5 R 16 or 235/85/16 of the older Gurkha

How well have the interiors held up to abuse?
Not much interior to talk about, the dashboard material is all iron with plastic cladding, so no cracking ,chipping etc.

What about service and spares at a city like Bombay (I would like to believe that scheduled servicing would be pretty economical)?

No service issue at Bombay but spares are a headache . Force Motors do not have a proper catalogue of spares .Also FML keeps on changing spares specifications .As a result it can be very time consuming to procure a part. Many a times I had to go personally to FML ,Pune,Akurdi with the damaged part and buy it off shelf. Gurkha parts arent generally stocked at outlets selling Trax and Traveller spares,although there are many parts common to all these vehicles. A friend form Delhi had to wait for a full 10 days for a replacement of his broken axle.

Spares are very reasonably priced and the costliest part I ever bought was the crown and pinion at 8k.

Any rust issues?
Since I have used this car primarily for offroading , I have made it a point for anti-rust coating (Wurth) on a regular basis,so wont be able to comment.

Have you made any long highway trips? Is the NVH bearable at 80-100kmph range?
Yes ,many long trips , NVH at 100 is very good IF you have street tires ...on my Cooper MT's there is a huge sound..

Would love to know the fuel efficiency in city, highway, and 4x4 mode.
City= 8-10 , Highway=14 , 4x4 mode = never bothered to check :)

Thanks again[cheers]. Please consider starting a thread to narrate your experiences.
Yes Sam ,I do plan to write the complete story on my Gurkha .


BTW the Bosch ECU on the Gurkha can be configured (after-market) for your needs .If you want more highway performance ,speed ,pick up you can program it thus. The Gurkha can touch speeds of 140 easily when configured for highway..
 
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#125
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Sam Dinkar

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Dear Dr. Mohan,

Thanks again. Mind sharing how did you guys manage to break the axle, crown, and pinion[clap]?

By crawl, I meant slow and precise boulder crawling. How does it perform there? Please share a video if you have one.

MT tyres are hell on highways. OEM Hawkz ATs should have lower noise.

Good to know that at least the factory has spares[lol].

Do know know any remapped Gurkha? How does it affect the off-road performance? What about the OEM gear ratios with the changed (highway-friendly) remap?

How has been the reliability so far?

Awaiting your thread eagerly.

Regards,
Sam
 
#127
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Sam Dinkar

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Yup. Have licked youtube dry of all Gurkha videos including this one. But this one even a Thar could easily do, albeit a bit faster with its 40 crawl ratio.

Is this an IDI Gurkha? Man, just listen to that TIKK TIKK cacophony from the engine!
 
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