Re: Debate: Is it the end of road for MSIL dominance"?
Hi, new swift, kizashi, vitara all have comparable quality to other cars.
Hi, new swift, kizashi, vitara all have comparable quality to other cars.
Debate: Is it End of the Road For Maruti Suzuki Dominance?
- Thread Starter CORTINA
- Start date
Re: Debate: Is it the end of road for MSIL dominance"?
Hmmmmm interesting Venom.
New Swift. After so many years??? And when its evident that the market is not anymore with us. The facelift of Swift is primarily because of the number of Hatches with variety of features rendered by all fellow companies. This was definetly a Catch 22 for MS, and had no choice than coming up with a facelift.
Kizashi / Vitara. Sorry, I am yet to spot one on the road.![[;)]](https://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/images/smilies/Wink.gif "Wink [;)]")
Which means, its out of reach for any Hatch/Sedan buyers (or) not prefered by any Luxury car buyers. So ?
BTW, you have also mentioned that they all have "Comparable" quality to other cars, but not "Outstanding"; "Best in Class"; or "Trend Setters".
I am not really sure, whether MS can come up with such a product in India... If so, MS lovers would be more than happy.![[:D]](https://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/images/smilies/Big%20Smile.gif "Big Smile [:D]")
Hmmmmm interesting Venom.
New Swift. After so many years??? And when its evident that the market is not anymore with us. The facelift of Swift is primarily because of the number of Hatches with variety of features rendered by all fellow companies. This was definetly a Catch 22 for MS, and had no choice than coming up with a facelift.
Kizashi / Vitara. Sorry, I am yet to spot one on the road.
Which means, its out of reach for any Hatch/Sedan buyers (or) not prefered by any Luxury car buyers. So ?BTW, you have also mentioned that they all have "Comparable" quality to other cars, but not "Outstanding"; "Best in Class"; or "Trend Setters".
I am not really sure, whether MS can come up with such a product in India... If so, MS lovers would be more than happy.
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Simply put, its not the end. Why? Because Maruti, just like Hero honda has a repo in India thats hard to beat. and even if they keep rolling out outdated ( the 800, alto, estilo and A-star are same cars, diff generations!) cars with crappy everything, they will keep selling. Why? because people have faith in them. secondly, they have a showroom and service centre almost everywhere in india nad in about every locality in Mtreos. so many people buy it for sheer convenience. When my mom went to buy a car, the only options available in my hometown were MSIL, Hyundai and Tata. and when they asked their colleagues about which car, only MSIL came forward. What bout Tata? they are crap, they dont last. Ford- they are crap too. Chevrolet- crap again.Nobody of these guys have ever driven anything else let alone buy one, but ask them, other than Maruti, all are crap. I couldn't convince them and they got a maruti. once i did get them to see ford figo, but the showroom is 60 k from my home, and well nobody's is gonna go that far for service or spares. thats how maruti is in the market, and they will remain.
Even after i have two marutis, i hate them.
Even after i have two marutis, i hate them.
Racerdabba is probably correct wherever many or other players are not present or little far off from the place people would like to buy one. But in Metros, things are changing, interests are changing as well. That means, people do not want to buy cheap cars (if I may say so) if they can afford it. Maruti is selling their cars in big numbers but they are limited to hatchback segment only and limited to budget category. Whereas, in metros people have more buying power and they are willing as well. That is the reason buying habits are changing.
It is simple to understand, we used to have a simple exhaust fan in kitchen to remove hot air or smoke while cooking. Now a days, people are moving towards "chimneys". We used to have cupboard in kitchen for stuffs, now we have modular kitchen. (These are just examples, do not take me otherwise)
Similarly, cars are not just cars or commutation object. They are status symbol as well as medium for safe travel. Thus, premium things are coming into the picture and other companies are providing that whereas at basic level Maruti is falling to provide good build quality because they have to keep price in to the consideration.
So, Maruti's dominance would go though it will take some time but I am seeing it.
It is simple to understand, we used to have a simple exhaust fan in kitchen to remove hot air or smoke while cooking. Now a days, people are moving towards "chimneys". We used to have cupboard in kitchen for stuffs, now we have modular kitchen. (These are just examples, do not take me otherwise)
Similarly, cars are not just cars or commutation object. They are status symbol as well as medium for safe travel. Thus, premium things are coming into the picture and other companies are providing that whereas at basic level Maruti is falling to provide good build quality because they have to keep price in to the consideration.
So, Maruti's dominance would go though it will take some time but I am seeing it.
OUTDATED MODELS
.800 (1984 2nd Generation Suzuki Alto) - Originaly launched in 1984 (CA71) and recieved a facelift in 1986 (CC71). India still drives the 1986 model. lolzzzzz
Alto (1998 5th Generation Suzuki Alto) - The current Alto with clearlens headlamps etc was actually a facelift launched in 2000, Maruti launched it as the "refreshed" Alto in 2006 or 2007)
Maruti never launched the 3rd,4th and 6th GENERATIONS of the Suzuki Alto and would had never launched the current top-selling 5th Generation Alto in 2000 if Hyundai/Daewoo/Tata (particularly Hyundai) would'nt have bought it to its knees.
.Estilo (2001 Suzuki MR Wagon) = Flop model introduce in 2006 after it was discontinued from International Markets.
.Omni (1980s 7th Generation Suzuki Carry)
.Gypsy (1981 2nd Generation Suzuki Jimny)
Maruti Made/Modified Models
.WagonR (2008 4th Generation, Maruti never launched the 3rd Generation) - The Japanese Version looks way different than the Maruti modified version, Again Maruti never launched the Generation WagonR until it saw a threat to its market share by the i10/Spark/Beat.
.Swift DZire - Probably the most ugliest sedan i have seen. I even wonder if it has undergone any crash tests like EuroNCAP etc.
.Eeco - No Comments
International Models
.A-star (2009 7th Generation Suzuki Alto) - Overall a good product but is too cramped and small.
.Ritz (2008 1st Generation Suzuki Splash) - partial sucess. Overall a good product with the most pathetic rear design.
.Swift (2010 2nd Generation) - Hit. Overall a good product but lacks good interiors. I remember my friend had bought his Swift in 2006 and when i sat in it i thought "hmmm, kuch khaas to nahi lag raha"
. Why did Maruti launch the Swift with G13BB engine instead of the M13A?
.SX4 (2006 1st Generation) - Overshadowed by Honda City, Volkswagen Vento, Hyundai Verna Fluidic and now Ford Fiesta and Nissan Sunny.
.Kizashi (2009 1st Generation) - Way too expensive for a "Suzuki", looks good though.
.Grand Vitara (2005 3rd Generation Suzuki Escudo) - I feel it looks better than Honda CR-V sometimes.
Overall i feel Suzuki lacks the passion which car makers like Honda, Nissan, Hyundai etc have. If you see Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Subaru's Vehicle lineups they are much much better.
Suzuki has absolutely no experience as a FULL car manufacturer like the above mentioned and is purely a Keicar manufacturer comparable only with Daihatsu. Hyundai, Kia and Daewoo are and were LIGHT YEARS ahead of Suzuki when it comes to making cars.
My family has been a Suzuki customer for 24yrs and we have never driven any other vehicle brand in India except Suzuki. Although i have driven my friend's Santro Xing and liked it quite a lot compared to my Alto LXi. The Epsilon Engine starts like a knife slicing through melted butter while the F8D Engine starts like a knife slicing through ROCKS, STONES, BOULDERS etc.
I am not a "Hyundai wala" but one thing i like about Hyundai is that they never rest on their success like how Suzuki does. They always launch the latest products in India and the world simaltaneously.
Maruti's Saving Grace - Huge Sales and Service Network and the Engines (Maruti Engines are fantastic, they just have the performance and thrill in them. Hyundai engines have refinement but Maruti Suzuki engines have awsome performance right from the 1980s F-Series engines to the latest K-Series motors).
MARUTI SUZUKI has taken Indian customers for granted all these years. When Santro was launched, Maruti management said "We know India, and India doesn't need MPFi". I REALLY WONDER IF HYUNDAI HAD NOT COME TO INDIA, PROBABLY WE WOULD BE STILL DRIVING 1984 MARUTI 800s, 1990 MARUTI ZENs, 1988 MARUTI ESTEEMs etc with no Altos, WagonRs, Swifts, Ritzs, DZires, SX4s etc.
.800 (1984 2nd Generation Suzuki Alto) - Originaly launched in 1984 (CA71) and recieved a facelift in 1986 (CC71). India still drives the 1986 model. lolzzzzz
Alto (1998 5th Generation Suzuki Alto) - The current Alto with clearlens headlamps etc was actually a facelift launched in 2000, Maruti launched it as the "refreshed" Alto in 2006 or 2007)
Maruti never launched the 3rd,4th and 6th GENERATIONS of the Suzuki Alto and would had never launched the current top-selling 5th Generation Alto in 2000 if Hyundai/Daewoo/Tata (particularly Hyundai) would'nt have bought it to its knees.
.Estilo (2001 Suzuki MR Wagon) = Flop model introduce in 2006 after it was discontinued from International Markets.
.Omni (1980s 7th Generation Suzuki Carry)
.Gypsy (1981 2nd Generation Suzuki Jimny)
Maruti Made/Modified Models
.WagonR (2008 4th Generation, Maruti never launched the 3rd Generation) - The Japanese Version looks way different than the Maruti modified version, Again Maruti never launched the Generation WagonR until it saw a threat to its market share by the i10/Spark/Beat.
.Swift DZire - Probably the most ugliest sedan i have seen. I even wonder if it has undergone any crash tests like EuroNCAP etc.
.Eeco - No Comments
International Models
.A-star (2009 7th Generation Suzuki Alto) - Overall a good product but is too cramped and small.
.Ritz (2008 1st Generation Suzuki Splash) - partial sucess. Overall a good product with the most pathetic rear design.
.Swift (2010 2nd Generation) - Hit. Overall a good product but lacks good interiors. I remember my friend had bought his Swift in 2006 and when i sat in it i thought "hmmm, kuch khaas to nahi lag raha"
. Why did Maruti launch the Swift with G13BB engine instead of the M13A?.SX4 (2006 1st Generation) - Overshadowed by Honda City, Volkswagen Vento, Hyundai Verna Fluidic and now Ford Fiesta and Nissan Sunny.
.Kizashi (2009 1st Generation) - Way too expensive for a "Suzuki", looks good though.
.Grand Vitara (2005 3rd Generation Suzuki Escudo) - I feel it looks better than Honda CR-V sometimes.
Overall i feel Suzuki lacks the passion which car makers like Honda, Nissan, Hyundai etc have. If you see Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Subaru's Vehicle lineups they are much much better.
Suzuki has absolutely no experience as a FULL car manufacturer like the above mentioned and is purely a Keicar manufacturer comparable only with Daihatsu. Hyundai, Kia and Daewoo are and were LIGHT YEARS ahead of Suzuki when it comes to making cars.
My family has been a Suzuki customer for 24yrs and we have never driven any other vehicle brand in India except Suzuki. Although i have driven my friend's Santro Xing and liked it quite a lot compared to my Alto LXi. The Epsilon Engine starts like a knife slicing through melted butter while the F8D Engine starts like a knife slicing through ROCKS, STONES, BOULDERS etc.
I am not a "Hyundai wala" but one thing i like about Hyundai is that they never rest on their success like how Suzuki does. They always launch the latest products in India and the world simaltaneously.
Maruti's Saving Grace - Huge Sales and Service Network and the Engines (Maruti Engines are fantastic, they just have the performance and thrill in them. Hyundai engines have refinement but Maruti Suzuki engines have awsome performance right from the 1980s F-Series engines to the latest K-Series motors).
MARUTI SUZUKI has taken Indian customers for granted all these years. When Santro was launched, Maruti management said "We know India, and India doesn't need MPFi". I REALLY WONDER IF HYUNDAI HAD NOT COME TO INDIA, PROBABLY WE WOULD BE STILL DRIVING 1984 MARUTI 800s, 1990 MARUTI ZENs, 1988 MARUTI ESTEEMs etc with no Altos, WagonRs, Swifts, Ritzs, DZires, SX4s etc.
![[clap]](https://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/images/smilies/Clap.gif "Clap [clap]")
Druid. Great write up.
Figoian- why wud sumone want to counter it? I agree completely with him. When i get a chance to buy my own car, its certainly not going to be a MS.
But druid, although u have written " Not a Hyundai wala" ur posts seem to reflect quite the opposite. Hyundai doesn't make great cars either, and if u drive the new Fluidic Verna, u will very well know how incompetent it is when it comes to better cars then the entry level ones. the only good cars Hyundai has in India are the Santro and the i10. and maybe the coming Eon.
As for Suzi, they do make great cars on their own, and are a long way from the Kei car makers they once were. i wouldn't agree with you on that front.
its like saying Honda is crap only coz Hero Honda has nothing new in India.
Figoian- why wud sumone want to counter it? I agree completely with him. When i get a chance to buy my own car, its certainly not going to be a MS.
But druid, although u have written " Not a Hyundai wala" ur posts seem to reflect quite the opposite. Hyundai doesn't make great cars either, and if u drive the new Fluidic Verna, u will very well know how incompetent it is when it comes to better cars then the entry level ones. the only good cars Hyundai has in India are the Santro and the i10. and maybe the coming Eon.
As for Suzi, they do make great cars on their own, and are a long way from the Kei car makers they once were. i wouldn't agree with you on that front.
its like saying Honda is crap only coz Hero Honda has nothing new in India.
Great write up Druid but what is your point ![[confused]](https://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/images/smilies/Confused.gif "Confused [confused]")
. Is this is end of Maruti Suzuki's dominance in India ? Well I do not see it if we check the numbers of sales vs competition.
As Racer said, why would anyone would like to counter it ? He shared good information but I did not see the answer. Or probably I am not good enough to understand [thinking]
I agree, Suzuki make great cars but in small segment primarily or at least in India. And I do not think Druid is supporting Hyundai but used it as an example for people to understand.
Correct me if I am wrong.
. Is this is end of Maruti Suzuki's dominance in India ? Well I do not see it if we check the numbers of sales vs competition.As Racer said, why would anyone would like to counter it ? He shared good information but I did not see the answer. Or probably I am not good enough to understand [thinking]
I agree, Suzuki make great cars but in small segment primarily or at least in India. And I do not think Druid is supporting Hyundai but used it as an example for people to understand.
Correct me if I am wrong.
@Racerdabba - I am not supporting Hyundai, i am a hardcore Japanese Car freak and will only buy TOYOTA, HONDA, NISSAN, SUZUKI and MITSUBISHI cars. i know Hyundai does'nt make the greatest cars but at the same time THEY DO NOT LAUNCH OUTDATED MODELS like Maruti. Hyundai Verna Fluidic may not be a good car but at the same time its the latest model.
Santro, Accent are old but they are not so old to be in the league of Maruti 800.
Suzuki has a long way to go to become like Toyota, Honda, Nissan.
At the end of the day "SUZUKI IS NOTHING WITHOUT MARUTI". If they discontinue all their "non-international" models , Suzuki which is the 9th largest carmaker in the world will be below Mitsubishi and Subaru. They will be somewhere near Tata which is the 18th largest in the world.
@Shailinder - It is not the end of Maruti yet because i think MAJORITY OF ALTO,800 sales in India come from the rural markets (i may be wrong) and also buyers who are unknown of the fact that Alto is a old car like how i was unaware in 2004.
.Maruti has presence in 668 cities in all 28 states and 7 union territories of India
But very soon Maruti will be in trouble because Hyundai, Chevrolet, Ford, Toyota are rapidly increasing their presence in rural markets.
Example-
General Motors and Ford use to sell more than 4,000,000 cars every year in 1998 in the United States. In 2010 General Motors and Ford sell just above 2,000,000 cars in the United States. 50% less.
Santro, Accent are old but they are not so old to be in the league of Maruti 800.
Suzuki has a long way to go to become like Toyota, Honda, Nissan.
At the end of the day "SUZUKI IS NOTHING WITHOUT MARUTI". If they discontinue all their "non-international" models , Suzuki which is the 9th largest carmaker in the world will be below Mitsubishi and Subaru. They will be somewhere near Tata which is the 18th largest in the world.
@Shailinder - It is not the end of Maruti yet because i think MAJORITY OF ALTO,800 sales in India come from the rural markets (i may be wrong) and also buyers who are unknown of the fact that Alto is a old car like how i was unaware in 2004.
.Maruti has presence in 668 cities in all 28 states and 7 union territories of IndiaBut very soon Maruti will be in trouble because Hyundai, Chevrolet, Ford, Toyota are rapidly increasing their presence in rural markets.
Example-
General Motors and Ford use to sell more than 4,000,000 cars every year in 1998 in the United States. In 2010 General Motors and Ford sell just above 2,000,000 cars in the United States. 50% less.
There is a saying that Japanese and Koreans are masters of Petrol engines and the kind of line up says that too. I do not want to counter what Druid has said but MSIL in India is a tough nut to beat. Although during last few years, economy has opened up, putting up more disposable money in people's hand and they have started to come out of their narrow minded upbringing that Maruti is the car to own! But still it is a long way to go.
There is one model which is light years ahead of the rest is Swift. Even now, the bookings have crossed more than 1L. Other manufacturers will give an arm and a leg to get that kind of figure.
It doesnt matter what models they bring to India, what matters is where the heart of India lies. We, as automotive enthusiasts, may understand the shortcomings of all these models because of our exposure or intent, but eventually what sells in India is perception. The biggest example of it is FIAT.
There is one model which is light years ahead of the rest is Swift. Even now, the bookings have crossed more than 1L. Other manufacturers will give an arm and a leg to get that kind of figure.
It doesnt matter what models they bring to India, what matters is where the heart of India lies. We, as automotive enthusiasts, may understand the shortcomings of all these models because of our exposure or intent, but eventually what sells in India is perception. The biggest example of it is FIAT.
Absolutely fine with the idea. But "Looking London Talking Tokyo" ![[:)]](https://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/images/smilies/Smile.gif "Smile [:)]")
I felt little off topic. (It is personal opinion though.)
It does not matter whether they are selling old models or not. I am referring to numbers they are selling. Rural or urban it really does not matter again till the time people buying their products. But I agree that things are changing atleast in Urban areas and people are changing their buying habits.
I felt little off topic. (It is personal opinion though.)
@Shailinder - It is not the end of Maruti yet because i think MAJORITY OF ALTO,800 sales in India come from the rural markets (i may be wrong) and also buyers who are unknown of the fact that Alto is a old car like how i was unaware in 2004. .Maruti has presence in 668 cities in all 28 states and 7 union territories of India
But very soon Maruti will be in trouble because Hyundai, Chevrolet, Ford, Toyota are rapidly increasing their presence in rural markets.
Example-
General Motors and Ford use to sell more than 4,000,000 cars every year in 1998 in the United States. In 2010 General Motors and Ford sell just above 2,000,000 cars in the United States. 50% less.
.Maruti has presence in 668 cities in all 28 states and 7 union territories of IndiaBut very soon Maruti will be in trouble because Hyundai, Chevrolet, Ford, Toyota are rapidly increasing their presence in rural markets.
Example-
General Motors and Ford use to sell more than 4,000,000 cars every year in 1998 in the United States. In 2010 General Motors and Ford sell just above 2,000,000 cars in the United States. 50% less.
Anyone to counter Druid??? ![[thumbsdown]](https://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/images/smilies/Thumbs%20Down.gif "Thumbs Down [thumbsdown]")
It was the 800 and Zen, that had a happy marriage with lakhs of Indian families. This was a period before we had an Indica and a Santro. Omni and Wagon R then added to the success story. Then came the Swift which is a success, mainly due to the reputation that 800 and Zen had already built. Then the A Star and Ritz also appealed the masses. Basically, the image was built at a time when there was totally no competition or weak competition (Tata and Hyundai).
I own a 20 year old 800, and I am always treated as a fly in the ointment. A sense of arrogance has developed after all this success in its after sales service / dealers. Whenever I plan to go on a short day return trip, the 800 spends 4-5 hours in a private roadside garage, and mind it, the car has run just more than 50000 kilometers. My Indigo, on the other hand, is still strong at 95k kilometers in little more than 4 years. Tata of today has improved leaps and bounds on their product and service quality. Now we have the likes of Toyota, Honda, Chevrolet, Volkswagen, Fiat, Ford, Nissan, all competing for a piece of cake in the small car segment (Maruti's heart, mind, brain and soul). Today's buyer is a wiser counsel. Until and unless its arrogance and tendency to take customer granted is corrected, Maruti will go on loosing its presence in the market.
I own a 20 year old 800, and I am always treated as a fly in the ointment. A sense of arrogance has developed after all this success in its after sales service / dealers. Whenever I plan to go on a short day return trip, the 800 spends 4-5 hours in a private roadside garage, and mind it, the car has run just more than 50000 kilometers. My Indigo, on the other hand, is still strong at 95k kilometers in little more than 4 years. Tata of today has improved leaps and bounds on their product and service quality. Now we have the likes of Toyota, Honda, Chevrolet, Volkswagen, Fiat, Ford, Nissan, all competing for a piece of cake in the small car segment (Maruti's heart, mind, brain and soul). Today's buyer is a wiser counsel. Until and unless its arrogance and tendency to take customer granted is corrected, Maruti will go on loosing its presence in the market.