Tata Storme vs Mahindra XUV5OO - Which One To Choose?

[manojodungat]

Iam sure but mahindra engineers must be working really hard on this particular problem like tata who seem to trying hard to fix the squeaking and rattling of the rear door .

Not sure about Mahindra and Tata, you certainly are working hard and overtime, of late.

I think more then quality problem here must be some mechanical problem with the clutch and it's components because the same problem is carried forward in Mhwak xuv too.....

Can't make any generalizations about the Clutch failure associated with m-Hawks, but definitely will share my own experience where a master cylinder failure of my Scorpio M-hawk got us stalled on our way back from Bangalore to Palakkad last year.

Entire story in my ownership thread here.

I was scared. I called them immediately, only to know that I wouldn’t be driving my scorpio back to Palakkad from Bangalore. My Scorpio got stalled at Attibele toll plaza thanks to its clutch failure at around 7.00pm[24/1/2013]

And this too.

...I called up the ASS Manager, Mr.Arif. He came a bit early at around 8.45am, took the inventory by himself. He started the vehicle in first gear and drove it in to the work area and got FOUR technicians to work on it on an emergency basis, wasting no time.

• The clutch cylinder was replaced under warranty with zero labour so the total damage zero.
• He also showed me the worn out Clutch plate and said it would run for
  another 10000 kms. But I thought of changing that as well and got a new clutch plate which cost 7600 Rs in total. There were no labour fee charged at all for the whole thing.

The work was done in about 2 hours and he along with me took the test drive at around 10.45am and the vehicle was at its best again. A 5 hour work was done in 2 hours with more people deployed with an efficient supervision. Thanks to Mr. Arif and Co for the wonderful and highly professional show at the Mahindra ASS, Hosur. We thanked them and left Hosur at around 12.00 yesterday.

I had a quick drive to salem as we wanted to have lunch at Saravana Bhavan after Salem. We reached there at 2.15pm and had a wonderful lunch. Later got back home in the evening by 7.00pm.

But company not replacing the clutch plates for free when it's a known issue for many cars is not fair , what has the poor costumer to do when this is a known problem in xuv .
Pic attached - yet another complaint for the clutch failure - source - Facebook .

• Just because I have had one odd incident of clutch master cylinder failure on my Scorpio, will I go on to generalise to say that Mahindra needs to replace the clutch assembly of all the existing Scorpios and XUV 5OOs? Well, if there is anything faulty they should.
• Do we have multiple incidents posted honestly in details on forums like TAI to demand a recall?
• How many of us honestly report issues faced, on public forums?

Credibility of those one liner complaints or single paragraph comments posted on social networking sites like Face book can't definitely be guaranteed and one can't make any serious generalizations just based on those comments at all.

 

[Raja]

]

Not sure about Mahindra and Tata, you certainly are working hard and overtime, of late.

I will keep doing that ,whenever i get any information about xuv or storme .

i * may * stop once i buy either a storme or a xuv or a Tata or a Mahindra product ,because then chances are my thoughts and thinking getting biased and prejudiced.

I appreciate your hard work too in cross posting pics , posting specs sheets and comparing of xuv vs range rover too. ( bad that it got deleted)

Can't make any generalizations about the Clutch failure associated with m-Hawks,

i think you must explain this to superbad , since he said that not me . I just expanded my thoughts on his post , Shall i reqoute again ?

[*]Just because I have had one odd incident of clutch master cylinder failure on my Scorpio, will I go on to generalise to say that Mahindra needs to replace the clutch assembly of all the existing Scorpios and XUV 5OOs? Well, if there is anything faulty they should.

Cool down read my post again , they had already done that once ,but never made public , ask iron rock infact he was the source of the news.

Do we have multiple incidents posted honestly in details on forums like TAI to demand a recall? ][*]How many of us honestly report issues faced, on public forums?

I love TAI a lot , and also iam aware of the fact that its not the only forum in India . There is life outside TAI .
And just because a problem is not listed or posted in TAI , doesn't mean that problems don't exist . Anybody can search " niggles in xuv " and get a list of niggles and also how many users got their clutch plates changed or got stranded . Even new multiple owners since July 2013.

Btw the pic of " xuv getting towed " is real , iam sure the owner has not towed it thinking of doing a fashion parade of his xuv .

Credibility of those one liner complaints or single paragraph comments posted on social networking sites like Face book can't definitely be guaranteed and one can't make any serious generalizations just based on those comments at all.

Lol .... Then why did Mahindra start the Facebook page in first place . It was a social networking site through which mukeshus got attention for his complaint .
He too had writeen a one liner .
And if you don't believe, choose to ignore so simple .

 

[raj_5004]

But quality is now better then before ? If yes then why is it that people pay money and get inconsistent quality before and now .

You may call it inconsistent quality. I would say its improvisation of a product.

XUV had niggles, alright. Now M&M is willing to improve it by improving part quality. I would prefer better product quality over consistency for customers, especially since M&M is replacing the common defective parts with better parts for older customers.

 

[Superbad]

I think more then quality problem here must be some mechanical problem with the clutch and it's components because the same problem is carried forward in Mhwak xuv too .( like dsg problems in VW cars ) afaik even Ironrock mentioned that they had done a recall for clutch ( not made public though ) and his clutch too was replaced . Yet the problem occurs I think .
Iam sure but mahindra engineers must be working really hard on this particular problem like tata who seem to trying hard to fix the squeaking and rattling of the rear door .

But company not replacing the clutch plates for free when it's a known issue for many cars is not fair , what has the poor costumer to do when this is a known problem in xuv .

Pic attached - yet another complaint for the clutch failure - source - Facebook .

while i must complement your hard searched research on "niggles in XUV", there have been cases of clutch failure even on TAI for the storme.
Of course , those cases would be heard in very few numbers since the storme numbers on road are very few to begin with.

and here it is my entire quote, since it makes sense if read in its entirety

Reliability wise though the scorpio is a reliable beast ,those graduating from a hatch might need to be careful with the clutch of the mhawk.
avoid riding the scorpio or the xuv in half clutch, since the clutch failure is a major niggle found among mhawk scorpios.
the scorpio can amble along without any accelerator input if in proper gearing thanks to the torque at lower revs.

After 4 months and 3800 kms... Following are the issues I had with Storme and I am really sad and angry...

1) Hand Brake failed: Issue happened within the first week itself after purchase. The first issue I faced was the failure of Hand Brake. Once I apply the Hand Brake, it will not take affect and the car will still be rolling. I accidently found the issue when my friend put the car in Handbrake in a slope but the car was still rolling down. Luckily we were still inside the car and applied the foot brake to stop the car. I soon took it to Kulathunkal Motors and they fixed it.
2) Left Indicator completely failed: Left side indicator was not working at all. Kulathunkal Motors replaced the complete kit and it started working fine.
3) Left turning Radius increased: This issue happened last month. When i turn the car in the left direction, the turning radius was very large. Right turning radius was fine. Kulathunkal motors fixed it and they said something was loose in the left wheel.
4) Smoke in the Interior when AC is turned on: When i drive the car and if it is stuck in heavy traffic, smoke will enter the cabin through the AC vent. I showed this to Kulathunkal motors but they where not able to find what the problem is. I still have this problem and its very uncomfortable to drive the car in traffic because of the smoke.
5) Clutch Burned out: Last week i had a very bad issue. The car suddenly stopped moving. We showed it to Kulathunkal and they said that the clutch burned out. Service center checked and told me that clutch had burnt off completely. I can't believe it. They are asking 12K to get it replaced.

I have complained to Tata Motors and waiting for a response. This was just the last of the series of issues I had with the Storme. Car is with the service center now.. I hope I don't have to pay anything.

If at 3800kms clutch of a storme can burn out then i think the clutch on the xuv are far more reliable.

 

[Raja]

You may call it inconsistent quality. I would say its improvisation of a product.
XUV had niggles, alright. Now M&M is willing to improve it by improving part quality. I would prefer better product quality over consistency for customers, especially since M&M is replacing the common defective parts with better parts for older customers.

How can product quality be maintained without consistency in better quality in the product sold ?

while i must complement your hard searched research on "niggles in XUV",

Thanx for your compliments . But it's nothing hard to research here seriously .

Just open google and type " niggles in xuv " and you are ready to read .

Try once it's really not hard the way you think .

there have been cases of clutch failure even on TAI for the storme.
Of course , those cases would be heard in very few numbers since the storme numbers on road are very few to begin with.

Guess what I have posted whatever issues owners in TAI had with their storme's . Readers are witness to it .

and here it is my entire quote, since it makes sense if read in its entirety

Yes it makes sense , can you explain in detail about the line I have bolded from your entire text ? And other post please ?

Reliability wise though the scorpio is a reliable beast ,those graduating from a hatch might need to be careful with the clutch of the mhawk.
avoid riding the scorpio or the xuv in half clutch, since the clutch failure is a major niggle found among mhawk scorpios.
the scorpio can amble along without any accelerator input if in proper gearing thanks to the torque at lower revs.

And

Originally Posted by Superbad
The clutch failure is said to be the only worrying factor among the mhawk variants.

Can you explain what you mean by " worrying factor among Mhwak variants " and clutch failure is major niggle found among Mhwak scorpios ? Please .

If at 3800kms clutch of a storme can burn out then i think the clutch on the xuv are far more reliable.

Superbad you are late buddy to the party .

I have already posted this problem faced by our member and owner of storme in this thread .

Maybe you will post some more problems of storme please ?

And problems are problems they happen in 3800 Kms like burning of clutch or multiple July made xuv 's towed to a.s.s due to clutch failures . Or rattling in storme's rear door or LEDs going kaput in the xuv , or steering hose pipe getting busted .

Important is they must be posted .

You are late this time but you are on right track keep posting problems , only the key is to post problems in both vehicles .

 

[Superbad]

Yes it makes sense , can you explain in detail about the line I have bolded from your entire text ? And other post please ?

And




Can you explain what you mean by " worrying factor among Mhwak variants " and clutch failure is major niggle found among Mhwak scorpios ? Please .

It was a specific question to which the bolded part was answered.it was the only worrying factor.

I was asked a question about what could possibly go wrong in the worst case scenario, reliability wise and i mentioned the worst case scenario.that also depends upon the usage, how efficiently one uses the clutch. people riding their cars on half clutch are always going to abuse the clutch more and they will be more likely to burn the clutch.

 

[raj_5004]

GUYS -

This thread has been dragged for pages long on how the XUV is unreliable and has niggles. The point is already proven and accepted by most. Then XUV lovers/owners defend their vehicles by citing examples of Storme having issues and niggles too. Again, most people have accepted that too.

Next came the logic of why more niggles of XUV are reported - because it sells more. Now, even that has been accepted by many.

What next? Are we here to compile an exact percentage of issues reported in both the cars and then compare them?

I personally feel this issues and niggles thing has been stretched so far that the rest of the attributes of the vehicle is never discussed. Issues should be reported, lets do that in the respective test drive threads. Or make a new niggles only thread. This thread is to compare Storme and XUV, not only their niggles...

We can go on and on and on about niggles and issues, but this thread is losing its sheen now. Lets talk about something new instead of beating around the bush.

P.S.: I am not against reporting niggles or criticizing a manufacturer, but now this thread is becoming stagnant. I bet 100 out of 140 pages of this thread must be about niggles!

 

[Raja]

GUYS -

This thread has been dragged for pages long on how the XUV is unreliable and has niggles. The point is already proven and accepted by most. Then XUV lovers/owners defend their vehicles by citing examples of Storme having issues and niggles too. Again, most people have accepted that too.

Next came the logic of why more niggles of XUV are reported - because it sells more. Now, even that has been accepted by many.

What next? Are we here to compile an exact percentage of issues reported in both the cars and then compare them?

I personally feel this issues and niggles thing has been stretched so far that the rest of the attributes of the vehicle is never discussed. Issues should be reported, lets do that in the respective test drive threads. Or make a new niggles only thread. This thread is to compare Storme and XUV, not only their niggles...

We can go on and on and on about niggles and issues, but this thread is losing its sheen now. Lets talk about something new instead of beating around the bush.

P.S.: I am not against reporting niggles or criticizing a manufacturer, but now this thread is becoming stagnant. I bet 100 out of 140 pages of this thread must be about niggles!

You are right , it would have not been so If some would have not been defensive about the niggles or in the denial mode from day one about xuv .

It's very apparent for some one who,will read this thread from start , how and why some are perpetually in denial mode .

The great qualities of xuv and storme are discussed too in this thread and as per the hits and the views of the thread it seems it is the most viewed thread .

Until we adhere to rules and not get personal and talk only about vehicles we must follow the natural flow IMHO .

@ Superbad anybody who rides the clutch in any car be it a alto or xuv or storme will burn the clutch it's not rocket science .
So since you mentioned that clutch failure is a worrying factor and major niggle in Mhwak variants , I was curious to know that what mechanical problem it must be .
But you seem to suggest that it's people and their driving style which may give birth to clutch failure .
So in this case you are contradicting your own statement .

 

[Superbad]

The clutch burn was a worrying factor for those graduating from a hatch that too petrol hatch.
Have seen many users who were earlier used to driving petrol find it impulsive to rev their car to move from standstill. The diesel vehicles especially the mhawk has good amount of torque available at their low rev range, enough to propel their vehicles without any accelerator input.
Now for those used to revving their vehicles will obviously use their clutch more in city traffic.
Hence the earlier explanation.

 

[Raja]

The clutch burn was a worrying factor for those graduating from a hatch that too petrol hatch.
Have seen many users who were earlier used to driving petrol find it impulsive to rev their car to move from standstill. The diesel vehicles especially the mhawk has good amount of torque available at their low rev range, enough to propel their vehicles without any accelerator input.
Now for those used to revving their vehicles will obviously use their clutch more in city traffic.
Hence the earlier explanation.

If so then why are you saying that " clutch failure is a major niggle in Mhwak variants " ? .

all it is as per you is that drivers driving style is not appropriate . If so then why you are saying its a niggle ?

Your statement is misleading . You are without any reason blaming mahindra here .

Hence your statements and explanations are highly contradictory .

Ps- there is equally good amount of torque in bolero and innova too , and many petrol driving people have bought those cars too , and yet clutch failures are not reported as much they are reported in Mhwak variants .

 

[freakdude]

Of course , those cases would be heard in very few numbers since the storme numbers on road are very few to begin with.

The number of Innovas in many fold the number of mHawks on the road, still the clutch issue is only with mHawks, so the lesser number of Stormes plying on the road is hardly a criteria.

The clutch burn was a worrying factor for those graduating from a hatch that too petrol hatch.
Have seen many users who were earlier used to driving petrol find it impulsive to rev their car to move from standstill.

If you are in touch/contact with all those who upgraded from petrol hatches to Scorpio/XUV, kindly teach them the proper usage of clutch, also, from above statement can we safely deduce that major reason for clutch failures in scorpio/xuv is upgrading from petrol hatches (as driving styles are different)??

 

[Superbad]

The number of Innovas in many fold the number of mHawks on the road, still the clutch issue is only with mHawks, so the lesser number of Stormes plying on the road is hardly a criteria.

check the power/torque ratings of innova and then bring those cars into comparison

Engine & Performance
Engine description2.5-litre 100bhp D-4D Common-rail dieselMaximum power100bhp@3600rpmMaximum torque200Nm@1400-3400rpm

If you are in touch/contact with all those who upgraded from petrol hatches to Scorpio/XUV, kindly teach them the proper usage of clutch, also, from above statement can we safely deduce that major reason for clutch failures in scorpio/xuv is upgrading from petrol hatches (as driving styles are different)??

i never mentioned this in this thread to begin with, it was forced here by another member who brought it here in this thread which was OT(since topics related to scorpio is OT right?) to begin with.

if it is not OT then i can bring all the dicor related faults in here too.

 

[Raja]

check the power/torque ratings of innova and then bring those cars into comparison





i never mentioned this in this thread to begin with, it was forced here by another member who brought it here in this thread which was OT(since topics related to scorpio is OT right?) to begin with.

if it is not OT then i can bring all the dicor related faults in here too.

Can you kindly explain what means Mhwak variants ? Iam sure that the xuv comes with Mhwak engine and not DI , so you can explain us in simple words here " clutch failure is a worrying issue in which Mhwak variants "

Since the xuv uses a Mhwak engine it's IMP to know if clutch failures are also a worrying factor for this varant or not .

They are your words , and brought here because it's very much inline with the topic .

This your post in its totality .

The clutch failure is said to be the only worrying factor among the mhawk variants.

you could wait for some time till the W4 variant is launched. it is in pipeline ,various auto magazine sites have even got the details of the brochure too.

so if you have some paranoia/doubt about the electricals, i would suggest you choose the W4 variant of the XUV.

the refreshed scorpio would surely not have any discounts to speak off at the start that too is slated to launch by 2014.

if you can extend the budget for the XUV, i suggest you wait till the W4 is launched. this can also be more mod friendly as in you can choose you own setup for the ICE and navigation systems etc.

 

[freakdude]

check the power/torque ratings of innova and then bring those cars into comparison

I knew this was coming, and i kind of wished you said this. Now, how would you compare the torque of mHawk to that of a Fortuner (290@1800 vs 343@1400) and how many Fortuners suffer clutch failures???

i never mentioned this in this thread to begin with, it was forced here by another member who brought it here in this thread which was OT(since topics related to scorpio is OT right?) to begin with.

C'mon man, just a few posts above you only mentioned this and now you are saying that some member FORCED you??? If that is the case we'll all wish to know who forced you to say this.

if it is not OT then i can bring all the dicor related faults in here too.

Sure, why not, if you can use them to benefit the community.

 

[Superbad]

I knew this was coming, and i kind of wished you said this. Now, how would you compare the torque of mHawk to that of a Fortuner (290@1800 vs 343@1400) and how many Fortuners suffer clutch failures???

By that logic, xylo has no clutch failures to mention of.
so you mean to say mahindra has made a super reliable clutch on the xylo,but offers a lower spec clutch on the scorpio/xuv? . their so called premium offerings

C'mon man, just a few posts above you only mentioned this and now you are saying that some member FORCED you??? If that is the case we'll all wish to know who forced you to say this.

I mentioned this in another thread which has nothing to do with the current thread. but it was taken out of context and is been beaten around the bush.
If it is for fun sake, i have no problems with trolling on that topic