LED Trend: Right or Wrong ?

[yoscenario2000]

Friends,

Nowadays it has became a trend to go for LED's for our vehicles, and the results are awesome (I am also LED user for my vehicle up to some extend like cabin light, under light for ABC and door handle lights).

The question in my mind is why almost all automotive (hatchback) brands are not introducing LED's as in stock in vehicles ? Most probable reason may be more consumption of battery power ? Not sure though.

Still most of the user's (including me) can't resist the inclination towards the use of LED's in our vehicles.

Is it really harmful in long term use of LED's for vehicles ? and one more query, as little I know if we replace stock headlight bulbs with some 90/100w lights with relay that can create much heat which can cause damage to light holders and reflectors as well ??

Beg your pardon if this issue is discussed earlier in any thread..

 

[Viru]

Even I'm getting obsessed with LED's these days!

LED's actually consume less energy than traditional filament bulbs, the reason most manufacturers avoid them is because an LED of equivalent brightness of a filament lamp is typically much more expensive. Availability may also be an issue. That's as far as I know at least.

The new S-class, for example, uses LED lighting exclusively! Maybe one day Alto will be in the same boat!

In the long term LED's should be better because of their much longer service life.

I heard higher wattage bulbs can scorch or even melt the reflector if used for longer time periods in excess of a few hours, well worth avoiding.

 

[yoscenario2000]

Even I'm getting obsessed with LED's these days!

LED's actually consume less energy than traditional filament bulbs, the reason most manufacturers avoid them is because an LED of equivalent brightness of a filament lamp is typically much more expensive. Availability may also be an issue. That's as far as I know at least.

The new S-class, for example, uses LED lighting exclusively! Maybe one day Alto will be in the same boat!

In the long term LED's should be better because of their much longer service life.

I heard higher wattage bulbs can scorch or even melt the reflector if used for longer time periods in excess of a few hours, well worth avoiding.

ahh.. okie.. What I understand from this opinion is that its like comparison between traditional Tube light (which was used in each and every household in earlier days) and CFL bulbs used nowadays everywhere to conserve energy.

BTW I am New gen Wagon R owner.. just to clear things coz Alto example does not implies to me.

Hope this clarify the things..

 

[Viru]

ahh.. okie.. What I understand from this opinion is that its like comparison between traditional Tube light (which was used in each and every household in earlier days) and CFL bulbs used nowadays everywhere to conserve energy.

BTW I am New gen Wagon R owner.. just to clear things coz Alto example does not implies to me.

Hope this clarify the things..

Tube lights are fluorescent lamps just like CFL's. CFL stands for compact fluorescent lamp.

Light Emitting Diodes (LED's) have also recently become available for household light, I have a set, they use barely any energy!

That was a figure of speech, not literal..

 

[yoscenario2000]

Tube lights are fluorescent lamps just like CFL's. CFL stands for compact fluorescent lamp.

Light Emitting Diodes (LED's) have also recently become available for household light, I have a set, they use barely any energy!

That was a figure of speech, not literal..

Thanks for elaborating well known info mate..

The comment for comparison between Tubelight & CFL Bulbs was not in that context. It was an example to co-relate the subject.

 

[Viru]

Thanks for elaborating well known info mate..

The comment for comparison between Tubelight & CFL Bulbs was not in that context. It was an example to co-relate the subject.

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood what you said.

 

[yoscenario2000]

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood what you said.

No Problem mate..




Coming back to discussion, is it legal to use LED lights as break-lights or parking lights as they might seem too flashy ?

 

[bhvm]

LED are the Big next thing. They're robust, reliable and Eco Friendly.
They are a little expensive at the moment but in a couple of years, you shall see them everywhere.

I've converted my house mostly on LED. Some of my projects below-
DIY Sports Car LED headlights

http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/f...view-decals-audio-led-mods-10.html#post350436

DIY LED Car Grille Glow Lights

DIY USB/Mobile charger LED light

DIY Upgrade/ Supercharge your LED Keyboard/ Laptop Light

Charming LED Flowers

Transform a boring old Table lamp into 2800 Lumen LED Blaster

For your other questions,
1)100W bulbs are Illegal and can cause Reflector, Wiring and battery damage.

2)LED brake lights, DRLs can be safely used as long as they are inside factory Housings. Cops don't seem to like Home made Housings for the same.

3) LEDs are much more efficient. near 100~150 Lumen per watt. CFLs are 50~60 LM/w. Stupid old bulbs are like 15~20 LM/w.
So if a Factory headlight Puts out 1100 Lumens (light). It will need 55W halogen but only 9 watts of LED!! Believe me its true.

4) CFL means Compact Fluoroscent. Tube lights are Known better as linear fluorocent. Not very different except the shape and design of electronics.

 

[konkantrip]

one more query, as little I know if we replace stock headlight bulbs with some 90/100w lights with relay that can create much heat which can cause damage to light holders and reflectors as well ??

Beg your pardon if this issue is discussed earlier in any thread..

I did the same thing I replaced my stand circuit of 60/55 W with a 90/100 in my zen in 2008 result at time i was a new driver and if i would rive contiously on hig beam for an hour or so buld was getting exploded due to heat result my both head light relectors are damaged the light emiited is also not good as the relectors are completely blacked now the replacement cost of the headlights is 8000 INR. My opinion if you really need to replace your existing bulbs only then go for this also for for a branded one and a perfect mechanic or else stay with the current lights

 

[yoscenario2000]

LED are the Big next thing. They're robust, reliable and Eco Friendly.
They are a little expensive at the moment but in a couple of years, you shall see them everywhere.

I've converted my house mostly on LED. Some of my projects below-
DIY Sports Car LED headlights

http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/f...view-decals-audio-led-mods-10.html#post350436

DIY LED Car Grille Glow Lights

DIY USB/Mobile charger LED light

DIY Upgrade/ Supercharge your LED Keyboard/ Laptop Light

Charming LED Flowers

Transform a boring old Table lamp into 2800 Lumen LED Blaster

For your other questions,
1)100W bulbs are Illegal and can cause Reflector, Wiring and battery damage.

2)LED brake lights, DRLs can be safely used as long as they are inside factory Housings. Cops don't seem to like Home made Housings for the same.

3) LEDs are much more efficient. near 100~150 Lumen per watt. CFLs are 50~60 LM/w. Stupid old bulbs are like 15~20 LM/w.
So if a Factory headlight Puts out 1100 Lumens (light). It will need 55W halogen but only 9 watts of LED!! Believe me its true.

4) CFL means Compact Fluoroscent. Tube lights are Known better as linear fluorocent. Not very different except the shape and design of electronics.

Nicely explained ..

So what little I understand from our discussion:
Pros of LED's:
* Better brightness as compared to stock bulbs (read traditional lights)hence good visibility. (No doubt at all)
* Less energy consumption hence pocket friendly.(No matter battery or electricity, result is the same )

Cons of LED's:
* High heat emission hence not good for vehicles headlights assembly and even not good for environment.
* High cost hence not so pocket friendly at the moment.
* Within the boundary limits of Law only if inside factory housing. (or if factory fitted only, not sure though about it)

There might be more pros & cons that I may have missed.

 

[bhvm]

Nicely explained ..

So what little I understand from our discussion:
Pros of LED's:
* Better brightness as compared to stock bulbs (read traditional lights)hence good visibility. (No doubt at all)
* Less energy consumption hence pocket friendly.(No matter battery or electricity, result is the same )

Cons of LED's:
* High heat emission hence not good for vehicles headlights assembly and even not good for environment.
* High cost hence not so pocket friendly at the moment.
* Within the boundary limits of Law only if inside factory housing. (or if factory fitted only, not sure though about it)

There might be more pros & cons that I may have missed.

Correction- High Heat is mentioned as an LED con. Its not true. LEDs are heat "sensitive", Hence they need Elaborate Heatsinks to keep them cool. Say a Halogen bulb is OK at 300.C, The LED will damage at 90.C. That does NOT mean they emit more heat. Actually they put out much less heat than any other lighting tech.

Other Pros-
*Mercury Free (Compared to CFLs)
*Lifelong (over 50k Burning Hours)
*Can be very precisely focused and shaped (Those Cool looking Lights on BMW and Audi)
*Completely solid state

Some Cons-
*Heat sensitive
*Output and colour can change with heat
*Needs elaborate Drivers to provide active power and correction (with heat, Life, Colour prediction) this is very true for LED TVs
*Needs expensive Lenses to focus properly.
*No manufacturing in India.

 

[yoscenario2000]

Correction- High Heat is mentioned as an LED con. Its not true. LEDs are heat "sensitive", Hence they need Elaborate Heatsinks to keep them cool. Say a Halogen bulb is OK at 300.C, The LED will damage at 90.C. That does NOT mean they emit more heat. Actually they put out much less heat than any other lighting tech.

ahh okie... Could you please elaborate on HEATSINKS ?? Are they in-built with LED's or is there any other idea behind this ??


[/QUOTE]Other Pros-
*Mercury Free (Compared to CFLs)
*Lifelong (over 50k Burning Hours)
*Can be very precisely focused and shaped (Those Cool looking Lights on BMW and Audi)
*Completely solid state[/QUOTE]



Some Cons-
*Heat sensitive
*Output and colour can change with heat
*Needs elaborate Drivers to provide active power and correction (with heat, Life, Colour prediction) this is very true for LED TVs
*Needs expensive Lenses to focus properly.
*No manufacturing in India.[/QUOTE]


Yeah... Mostly China made LED's available.

 

[Viru]

Coming back to discussion, is it legal to use LED lights as break-lights or parking lights as they might seem too flashy ?

It's completely legal, because most LEDs will be equivalent or superior to factory bulbs in terms of lighting if you choose well. If you get one which has a suitable size/shape for your car's reflectors there should be no problem with dazzling other road users!

Correction- High Heat is mentioned as an LED con. Its not true. LEDs are heat "sensitive", Hence they need Elaborate Heatsinks to keep them cool. Say a Halogen bulb is OK at 300.C, The LED will damage at 90.C. That does NOT mean they emit more heat. Actually they put out much less heat than any other lighting tech.

Other Pros-
*Mercury Free (Compared to CFLs)
*Lifelong (over 50k Burning Hours)
*Can be very precisely focused and shaped (Those Cool looking Lights on BMW and Audi)
*Completely solid state

Some Cons-
*Heat sensitive
*Output and colour can change with heat
*Needs elaborate Drivers to provide active power and correction (with heat, Life, Colour prediction) this is very true for LED TVs
*Needs expensive Lenses to focus properly.
*No manufacturing in India.

Expensive lenses? I don't fully understand what you intend by this...

Actually a few factories set up last year in India, making household LED bulbs, quite cheap as well (Only Rs120 for 3W LED bulb). They all have weird names though.

* High cost hence not so pocket friendly at the moment.
* Within the boundary limits of Law only if inside factory housing. (or if factory fitted only, not sure though about it)

They cost more to buy, but are much longer lasting, so might end up cheaper in the long run...

The same about housings applies to pretty much all lights AFAIK.

 

[bhvm]

I did the same thing I replaced my stand circuit of 60/55 W with a 90/100 in my zen in 2008 result at time i was a new driver and if i would rive contiously on hig beam for an hour or so buld was getting exploded due to heat result my both head light relectors are damaged the light emiited is also not good as the relectors are completely blacked now the replacement cost of the headlights is 8000 INR. My opinion if you really need to replace your existing bulbs only then go for this also for for a branded one and a perfect mechanic or else stay with the current lights

Perfect mechanic or now, High power bulbs will slowly erode your Reflectors and heat the wiring. Suffered on my Safari Once (Hill station). Never again

ahh okie... Could you please elaborate on HEATSINKS ?? Are they in-built with LED's or is there any other idea behind this ??

*No manufacturing in India.

Yeah... Mostly China made LED's available.

Heatsinks are designed to Take away Heat from LED cores to outside air. Have you seen CPU heatisnks? I have good success with them as LED heatsinks. Copper is best material, Aluminium comes second.

Here are some Pics-
LED heatsinks - Google Search

For the LED making, yes its sad that they're not Made in India. Chinese LEDs have a bad rep due to lack of heatsinks. I have good projects with them once they're modified with good heatsinks.

It's completely legal, because most LEDs will be equivalent or superior to factory bulbs in terms of lighting if you choose well. If you get one which has a suitable size/shape for your car's reflectors there should be no problem with dazzling other road users!


Expensive lenses? I don't fully understand what you intend by this...

Actually a few factories set up last year in India, making household LED bulbs, quite cheap as well (Only Rs120 for 3W LED bulb). They all have weird names though.

1) Putting LEDs into Housings intended for Halogens is NOT the way! LED housings are specially designed. They have different Focal points and very different Power and Thermal profiles. For the Legality, Even minor Mods to Factory Headlight are not allowed. However Cops don't seem to notice very subtle or covert mods. Perhaps you could enclose a completely new, Smaller housing for LEDs INSIDE the factory housing.

2) Lenses, Take this for an idea-

Jewel Eye

Jwel eye LED - Google Search

3) The "factory" you mentioned do nothing but bring parts from China and Hand assemble them onto Plugs and heatsinks.

The manufacuring scenario is like-
Guangzhou or Shenzen- over 90% LED supply. Unbranded
USA- Cree
Korea- Seoul Semiconductor
Japan- Nichia
Sweden- Optodrive
Germany- Osram.

 

[Viru]

1) Putting LEDs into Housings intended for Halogens is NOT the way! LED housings are specially designed. They have different Focal points and very different Power and Thermal profiles. For the Legality, Even minor Mods to Factory Headlight are not allowed. However Cops don't seem to notice very subtle or covert mods. Perhaps you could enclose a completely new, Smaller housing for LEDs INSIDE the factory housing.

2) Lenses, Take this for an idea-

Jewel Eye

Jwel eye LED - Google Search

3) The "factory" you mentioned do nothing but bring parts from China and Hand assemble them onto Plugs and heatsinks.

The manufacuring scenario is like-
Guangzhou or Shenzen- over 90% LED supply. Unbranded
USA- Cree
Korea- Seoul Semiconductor
Japan- Nichia
Sweden- Optodrive
Germany- Osram.

I was actually thinking more of the tail-lights, I can't seem to find any LED headlamps which are powerful enough.

You can now find bulbs with multiple surface-mounted device type LEDs, these are quite bright, but you just have to select them carefully and with a bit of physics to make sure the bulb provides output in a manner that the reflector would function properly. They produce less heat than filament bulbs so that shouldn't be a problem either.

Oh, interesting...I think we need more semiconductor plants in India...

What do you think of COB chips?